A new US Republican thread 2016

[vivalarevolución]

He probably just wants to impress his boy Donald with how vulgar he can be. This article sums it up well: http://verysmartbrothas.com/why-are-the ... ers-dicks/

"How the fuck are authors supposed to compete with a freakin White House communications director who leaks every fucking thing to a reporter while calling him to bitch about and expose leakers? I will never say or write anything more compelling and ridiculous and hilarious than “I’m not Steve Bannon, I’m not trying to suck my own cock." "

[seebart]

He probably just wants to impress his boy Donald with how vulgar he can be. This article sums it up well: http://verysmartbrothas.com/why-are-the ... ers-dicks/

"How the fuck are authors supposed to compete with a freakin White House communications director who leaks every fucking thing to a reporter while calling him to bitch about and expose leakers? I will never say or write anything more compelling and ridiculous and hilarious than “I’m not Steve Bannon, I’m not trying to suck my own cock." "

Wow, I did not imagine this administration could get more vulgar by any means...I was wrong. On the other hand possibly his job is also to distract from the actual dysfunctionality that is present.

[vivalarevolución]

He probably just wants to impress his boy Donald with how vulgar he can be. This article sums it up well: http://verysmartbrothas.com/why-are-the ... ers-dicks/

"How the fuck are authors supposed to compete with a freakin White House communications director who leaks every fucking thing to a reporter while calling him to bitch about and expose leakers? I will never say or write anything more compelling and ridiculous and hilarious than “I’m not Steve Bannon, I’m not trying to suck my own cock." "

Wow, I did not imagine this administration could get more vulgar by any means...I was wrong. On the other hand possibly his job is also to distract from the actual dysfunctional that is present.

Well, I'm sure this clown has a number of roles in addition to that, such as weed out leakers and pump the president's ego. What's most interesting is that the new guy's wife just filed for the divorce because of his naked ambition to work for Donald Trump. He is such a power seeking piece of excrement that he has literally destroyed his marriage and broken up his family to join the White House circle jerk. Class act.

[seebart]

Well, I'm sure this clown has a number of roles in addition to that, such as weed out leakers and pump the president's ego.

That sounds about right.

What's most interesting is that the new guy's wife just filed for the divorce because of his naked ambition to work for Donald Trump. He is such a power seeking piece of excrement that he has literally destroyed his marriage and broken up his family to join the White House circle jerk. Class act.

Really can't blame that lady.

[Mr.Nobody]

Maybe the new guy's wife fears that her hubby might learn how to grab a married woman by the pussy from President Trump, so she decided to file divorce before the disgrace happens.

[fohat]

http://www.newsweek.com/2017/08/11/dona ... 43996.html

[jacobolus]

For all their tough talk about “terrorism”, few Republicans have said much of anything about the Christian terrorist bombing of a mosque in Minnesota.

Racist hypocrites don’t give a shit about terrorism, only about riling up their base of racist whites with fear and hate when it’s politically convenient.

[seebart]

In his endless battle with the media team Trump now had this brilliant idea:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the ... ropaganda/

[vivalarevolución]

Might be a good time to start brushing up on your preparations for nuclear war.

https://www.ready.gov/nuclear-blast

[seebart]

Might be a good time to start brushing up on your preparations for nuclear war.

https://www.ready.gov/nuclear-blast

This whole situation is so scary I can't help but joke...

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[vivalarevolución]

Might be a good time to start brushing up on your preparations for nuclear war.

https://www.ready.gov/nuclear-blast

This whole situation is so scary I can't help but joke...

dabomb.jpg

Hey, I've always said if the world is going down in flames, might as well have fun while it's happening!

[seebart]

Might be a good time to start brushing up on your preparations for nuclear war.

https://www.ready.gov/nuclear-blast

This whole situation is so scary I can't help but joke...

The attachment dabomb.jpg is no longer available

Hey, I've always said if the world is going down in flames, might as well have fun while it's happening!

Exactly my sentiment, but we're not quite at that point yet. I'm hoping the north Korean guy and the Trumpet guy are noisier more than anything. At least Trump has a few people who will give him advice, seems the north Korean guy is totally looney tunes.

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[seebart]

Since this thread now seems to be semi-dead I'll turn this into a seebart-fun-post-zone;

Let's get started with the brilliant Pauly Shore as Stephen Miller:

[vivalarevolución]

It's sort of become this unrelenting nightmare of a human being that just won't go away. Just stop it, please. But he can't and won't, it's not within his constitution to be a less ridiculous. I think so many of us are just tired of talking about it, because it's everywhere, all the time, and burrowed into everyone's minds.

[fohat]

The real problem is that it has shifted the entire environment in an unconscionable direction.

Things that are horrible and unacceptable can be made to "seem" "normal" with sufficiently pervasive propaganda.

[jacobolus]

At this point, you either stand with Trump in supporting neo-Nazis, the KKK, domestic terrorists, and Vladimir Putin, or you stand with the rest of humanity.

There’s no more room for equivocation or cowardly waffling.

All those folks in here who were standing up for Trump before: are you still standing with him when it’s clear beyond any doubt that Trump is a racist, fascist, un-Christian, anti-American traitor?

Every dollar, every phone call, every vote, and every word of support spent in the past for this cancerous man is revealed as a shameful act. You all have a great deal to atone for. No time like now to dedicate yourselves to earning back your dignity, your self respect, and your humanity.

[seebart]

It's sort of become this unrelenting nightmare of a human being that just won't go away. Just stop it, please. But he can't and won't, it's not within his constitution to be a less ridiculous. I think so many of us are just tired of talking about it, because it's everywhere, all the time, and burrowed into everyone's minds.

The real problem is that it has shifted the entire environment in an unconscionable direction.

Things that are horrible and unacceptable can be made to "seem" "normal" with sufficiently pervasive propaganda.

At this point, you either stand with Trump in supporting neo-Nazis, the KKK, domestic terrorists, and Vladimir Putin, or you stand with the rest of humanity.

There’s no more room for equivocation or cowardly waffling.

All those folks in here who were standing up for Trump before: are you still standing with him when it’s clear beyond any doubt that Trump is a racist, fascist, un-Christian, anti-American traitor?

Every dollar, every phone call, every vote, and every word of support spent in the past for this cancerous man is revealed as a shameful act. You all have a great deal to atone for. No time like now to dedicate yourselves to earning back your dignity, your self respect, and your humanity.

I agree with all three of you, Trump now tripped over his own strange temper at that last speech on a subject that is too intense to go away. The occurrences in Charlottesville were horrible I saw plenty of footage, as a German I know a bit about racially motivated hate. Hate breeds hate no one will deny that it's a downward spiral the question is then just how fast and how bad it gets. There is no question in my mind Trump is stimulating these far-right groups since his campaign, if something like Charlottesville happens again I believe that could bring Trump down. On a side note have a look at these two assholes you might recognise the one on the right, the other one is Udo Voigt who is a leading figure in the neo-german facist scene and very active in the NPD:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_ ... of_Germany

Spoiler:

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OK just to lighten things up a bit:

1u4j0f.jpg (96.61 KiB) Viewed 11762 times

[chuckdee]

Seeing footage is not the same as being there. I was there. And for all that Trump is wrong about, people are excoriating him for things that were true. The sad thing about it is that people from the supposed good side went to the rally prepared with coke bottles filled with cement. And those weapons were thrown. The idea that no matter what, because you're on the side of the angels you can't be wrong really does hurt when it flies in the face of what actually happened.

The whole incident was sad on all sides, and if we're on the side of the right side of history, we should be able to call out our own people that do wrong, instead of justifying their wrong actions.

And as far as the whole thing in general, just because opinions change on things that were done, you can't wipe away guilt in this fashion. Something I wrote about the whole thing in general:

I grew up in the heart of Atlanta. I work a block away from the so-called offensive statue. There are ways, other than removing history to make it clear that this is not who we are now. That’s the easy way. Let’s get rid of it, so we feel better. Let’s get rid of it, because it’s comfortable to own up to it.

When all of this that we spent doing so- from legislation to the actual removal to the protection and cost in human lives and injury- could be spent to actually help the plethora of homeless people on the mall. Could be spent on edification and education of the underclass. I sit in that park for lunch very often, and what strikes me most is not the statue there, but the homeless gathering in it.

There could be a middle ground, but no one will ever seek it, because it’s not *worthy* of being sought. The monuments in a city tell something of history, and of the people that inhabited it. less than 1000 feet away from the statue of Stonewall Jackson is a block in the sidewalk. “Slavery Auction Block”, with a subtitle of “Men were bought and sold here.” It struck me when I moved here and went past it. It stirred up strange and unaccustomed feelings, as I saw people walk over it- unknowing, uncaring, oblivious to the spot. I started sitting there, pondering it over lunch. Pondering the misery that had not been wiped out, but instead marked.

I think that there is an opportunity here. To mark those statues- to mark the time when it was not just OK, but celebrated to raise such edifices. Leave the plaques that are currently there, but add an amendment to them in order to thoroughly condemn the despicable acts of the Confederacy, and that this doesn’t represent who we are as a people now, but to our shame did at one point. And try to come together in a middle ground- to educate, and hopefully draw some unity instead of trying to obliterate the past in order to make us feel better. Leave it as a monument to how far we’ve come, rather than trying to absolve by removal. Own up to the dark past, while looking to the future.

A link from the Mayor of Charlottesville explaining his position.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/postever ... te-statue/

[fohat]

There is value in what you are saying. Some of these monuments of an ugly past need to remain, as a cautionary tale if nothing else.

I am deeply saddened to hear that the group that I sympathize with was guilty of wrongdoing. It is imperative that people who are in the right (ie left) maintain the moral high ground at all times.

Ghandi proved that you must never lower yourself to engage the dark side on its own level.

[seebart]

Seeing footage is not the same as being there.

Of course not, I never claimed it was. As a matter of fact I'm glad I wasn't there. We got enough hate and terror over here.

[chuckdee]

Seeing footage is not the same as being there.

Of course not, I never claimed it was. As a matter of fact I'm glad I wasn't there. We got enough hate and terror over here.

I continued that statement, and what I meant. Footage shows what they want you to see, instead of everything that happened.

[seebart]

Seeing footage is not the same as being there.

Of course not, I never claimed it was. As a matter of fact I'm glad I wasn't there. We got enough hate and terror over here.

I continued that statement, and what I meant. Footage shows what they want you to see, instead of everything that happened.

I read your post and I agree. I am wise enough to see past and beyond certain media coverage and today in the age of mobile "devices" there is often quite a bit of "unofficial" footage online. I know you know what I mean chuckdee. I don't take any media for granted, of course "fake news" exists.

[jacobolus]

chuckdee: these statues were largely erected after 1890, peaking about 1910. They really picked up after the Plessy v. Ferguson “separate but equal” supreme court case, when segregation, black disenfranchisement, lynching culture, and the rest of the Jim Crow system were being established throughout the South, but continued being constructed from then through the present (there was a big relative uptick in installations of Confederate statues, especially those erected on public schools, after Brown v. Board / when the Civil Rights movement started picking up steam). Most of the early ones were low-quality (but cheap) mass produced metal sculptures made in places like Connecticut, because all over the South white supremacists of the late 19th & early 20th centuries were looking for volume discounts on their symbols of racist hatred. Instead of one expensive marble sculpture you could put up 50 cast metal sculptures and spread them to every little white racist town.

The purpose of these statues is not commemorating southern heroism or whatever horseshit talking points the white supremacists claim in public. The purpose was, and is, to put black people in their place, and celebrate slavery, segregation, white supremacy, and treason.

These statues (and the Confederate flag, etc.) have no place on public land, in places of prominence (schools, courthouses, town squares, etc.). If KKK members want to host them in their own living rooms and gardens, so be it, but the continued public veneration of white supremacist traitors is a national disgrace. It’s likewise a disgrace that military bases, schools, etc. continue to bear the names of white supremacist Confederate traitors.

Imagine if you were Jewish with holocaust-survivor ancestors and your child had to attend Adolf Eichmann public high school and got a holiday every year on Adolf Hitler day, or your county was called Hermann Goering county, or you had to commute to work every day along Heinrich Himmler highway, passing by numerous large statues of steadfast anonymous SS officers; this is much the same. Barf.

Allowing the US South to return to being an apartheid terrorist state and hold onto its traitorous symbols was a cowardly bargain Northern leaders made a while after the Civil War, because they didn’t want to be stuck dealing with permanent occupation and rebellion. They kissed away the rights of millions of black citizens (not to mention lives lost to terroristic violence) to appease white racists. Even if we accept for the sake of argument that this might have been the best of bad options available at the time, there is no reason to continue to accept such a corrupt and disgraceful accommodation >100 years later.

I recommend reading this nice pamphlet put out by the SPLC, https://www.splcenter.org/sites/default ... e_splc.pdf

[chuckdee]

You're not telling me anything that I don't know. I never said anything about the historical significance in my post. I talked about the moral significance of the fact that it was ever OK, and a buttress against it happening again. It almost seems like the blind parroting of the talking points, rather than a true reading of what I wrote.

[jacobolus]

It’s almost like you didn’t read what you wrote, or at any rate don’t seem to understand how offensive it is to name public places after racist traitors and put their statues up all over.

The whole incident was sad on all sides, [...]

There are ways, other than removing history to make it clear that this is not who we are now. That’s the easy way. Let’s get rid of it, so we feel better. Let’s get rid of it, because it’s comfortable to own up to it.

[...] And try to come together in a middle ground- to educate, and hopefully draw some unity instead of trying to obliterate the past in order to make us feel better. Leave it as a monument to how far we’ve come, rather than trying to absolve by removal.

Leaving tacky racist statues where kids go to school, in front of our halls of justice, in the middle of our public parks, etc., and justifying that because there’s a little plaque condemning slavery nearby is a cop out.

These statues don’t serve as a warning about the evils of a racist past and a measure of how far we’ve come. They serve as a commemoration of slavery, lynching, etc., and defiant public declaration that the local state government still supports white supremacy.

As for “all sides”, etc., that’s a cop out too. There’s only one side here calling for ethnic cleansing, only one side chanting “the jews will not replace us” and “blood and soil”, and only one side where someone drove his car into a crowd of unarmed people with the intent to kill.

[chuckdee]

Way to take something out of context. I said a moral history. Not to just take the easy way out and try to suppress history- the fact that at one point this was OK.

And another side that threw coke bottles filled with cement, and came down with AK-47s to supposedly a peaceful counter rally.

Just in case you didn't know whom you were arguing against, I've seen it first hand, as I came out and saw that my uncle was lynched for being involved with someone who could pass. I'm the one that saw his sister piss herself because we were on a trip and there were no colored bathrooms. I'm the one that remembers his father being talked down to as 'boy', and humiliated in front of me. I know full well the damage. And there is also a damage from them ever putting up the statue. Who sees the homeless people gathering in the park that no one cares about, and we're talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars to relocate a statue- money that the city council doesn't have in the budget. I'm the one that's on the mall seeing the people that are homeless on our great outdoor mall, and the police rousting them when they have no where else to go.

And I'll stop here, because it's offensive to me that I even have to give a pedigree in order for you to see that perhaps you're arguing about something that you don't have the full story on. About a city that you never have to hear about again. From the perspective of someone who wasn't there.

You can't just wipe away the wrongs that were done. That's the cop out.

[jacobolus]

So what are you proposing? Instead of Robert E. Lee Elementary School we call it “The shameful traitor Robert E. Lee Elementary School”, put a big sign with an arrow and the words “traitorous racist scumbag” next to the statue, and then use the money not spent tearing the statue down to pay for soup kitchens? (And likewise for all of the thousands of public places named for Confederates?)

Which southern state governments do you expect will support that?

I think the antifa activists who show up spoiling for a fight and then spend their time shouting obscenities and provoking the neo-Nazis are obnoxious and misguided (and, in particular, they’re giving the neo-Nazis who show up with helmets and clubs and shields just what they want), and anyone directly assaulting each-other in this kind of setting should be arrested and thrown in jail for a day to cool off. But the “oh there are baddies on both sides” story is super reductionist, misses the main point that the two primary groups were armed out-of-town Nazis vs. locals telling them nobody wanted Nazis in their town, and in public discourse (especially from Trump & right-wing propaganda) this kind of false equivalency is being used entirely disingenuously.

[chuckdee]

So what are you proposing? Instead of Robert E. Lee Elementary School we call it “The shameful traitor Robert E. Lee Elementary School”, put a big sign with an arrow and the words “traitorous racist scumbag” next to the statue, and then use the money not spent tearing the statue down to pay for soup kitchens? (And likewise for all of the thousands of public places named for Confederates?)

Which southern state governments do you expect will support that?

I think the antifa activists who show up spoiling for a fight and then spend their time shouting obscenities and provoking the neo-Nazis are obnoxious and misguided (and, in particular, they’re giving the neo-Nazis who show up with helmets and clubs and shields just what they want), and anyone directly assaulting each-other in this kind of setting should be arrested and thrown in jail for a day to cool off. But the “oh there are baddies on both sides” story is super reductionist, misses the main point that the two primary groups were armed out-of-town Nazis vs. locals telling them nobody wanted Nazis in their town, and in public discourse (especially from Trump & right-wing propaganda) this kind of false equivalency is being used entirely disingenuously.

What I'm proposing is what I wrote above. Or what the mayor said in his response- also linked above. There is a way to basically apologize for ever erecting this statue, and making it a sign of shame. That's what I meant about the plaque- it made me consider what the people went through. What I'd taken for granted. What actually happened. Men were bought and sold here. State the history of the statues, and then a codicil. At one point, to our eternal shame, we honored this man. Here the statue stands as an indictment of our decisions to erect it, and a reminder so that it does not happen again. Then donate all of that money spent on legislation and moving a hunk of steel to worthy causes. There is a major legislative fight coming up. That could be spent on something else.

http://www.newsplex.com/content/news/BR ... 90593.html

I'm tired of spending money that we don't have over symbolic things that in the end are pointless. Edify and educate the populace instead of trying to cover up the sins of the past. There is deep endemic damage that has been created over 300 years, and we are still paying for that, though people deny it. Just get over it. It's not that easy. And removing the reminder that at one point there were statues and celebrations all of the place would be the easy way out.

[vivalarevolución]

Just slap a dunce cap on every one of the monuments.

[jacobolus]

Someone suggested “participation award” ribbons.