On making "great finds" private to registered users only

[ramnes]

We already had that discussion multiple times. My conclusion is still that we should have both: the current thread public, like it always was, and an other similar thread private to club members if we want to share something with less people (something highly valuable which is an auction, organizing group buys, etc.)

Also, making that thread readable only by registered users seems useless to me. Stalkers will register and it won't change anything.

[derzemel]

I have been thinking a bit regarding this issue and to make it available only to Club members would be too drastic.
I now believe that making it available only to registered members would be the best of both worlds. I will also bring new members and some of them may also fell that they would like to express their thoughts on other topics too.
It could be that every visitor can see the title of the topic in the Marketplace and the SPY, but when they will click on it they will see a message similar to: Please register first if you would like to see this topic.

Edit: also Ramnes's proposal above is interesting

[Muirium]

Yeah, I can definitely see the advantage in:

1. Restricting the current Great Finds thread to view by logged in accounts only
2. Making a new Great Finds for the Club thread with even tighter visibility for Club members only

Perhaps even both.

I'm not especially anxious about the current setup, though. (It doesn't burn me much as I do almost all my acquisitions in direct trades, nowhere near eBay.) So I'm cool sitting back and seeing what proves most popular here.

[kokokoy]

2 cents from a non-member, I think a vote should be done by club members not now but a day or 2 later? Have this thread continue to be public so everyone can see and present their own views for a while. Close it, vote then i guess announce it publicly.

[photekq]

I must say that I do very much like the idea of having two threads. One for the public, one for the club.

I think making the current thread for club members only is far too drastic, and yet it would be nice to have things more private.

If it were up for me I would :

1) Make the current thread for registered users only

2) Make a second thread only visible to club members

[Wodan]

If it were up for me I would :

1) Make the current thread for registered users only

2) Make a second thread only visible to club members

+1

[andrewjoy]

A second thread for club only is a terrible idea.

The problem with that is you will potentially have members or club members unknowingly bidding against each-other on eBay finds, just because someone don't see it in the thread does not mean they will not bid on it.

Think of i like this , you find some super rare find and post it in the club thread, you all agree that one person is going to bid on it , but because you did not let the wider members know about it little Johnny the normal member did not know some club member really wanted it and outbids the club member or needlessly pushes up the price.

Locking the thread to registered members is enough.

[scottc]

I agree with andrewjoy on this one.

[photekq]

The problem with that is you will potentially have members or club members unknowingly bidding against each-other on eBay finds, just because you don't see it in the thread does not mean someone will not bid on it.

If you post something in a public thread and say "I'm bidding on this. Please let me get it!" people won't back off. Some might, but most won't.

Having something posted in great finds does not help those who are already trying to get the item in question. That's not the purpose of the thread.. It's to help people see things that they might otherwise miss, so that things can find their way into good hands. Sometimes it would be nice to be able to post more rare/precious things in a place where only a smaller group of people can see them. This is why I think a thread for club members only would be nice.

[photekq]

Also, as an aside, in regards to my saying that most people won't back off from bidding once someone has marked their territory : Who do you think is less likely to back off from bidding? A member who has expressed their love for the community by becoming a club member or a regular user who has not done so?

Hypothetically, if there were a club thread and a public thread.. Posting in that public thread and asking people not to bid would probably not have a good effect. However, I think posting the same thing in the club thread would likely have a good effect.

[Spikebolt]

Forbidding everyone else to post their findings anywhere?

Indeed, if we'd move interesting finds to a walled section, someone would start a competing open topic, and then someone would want to forbid that, pissing off other people, and... Pandora's box.

Exactly. This sums my point perfectly.

[andrewjoy]

But what advantages does this give to the poster ? What advantages does it give to the club members ? How does this improve things over limiting the thread to registered users only ? All it does is limits people who are not club members.

Is the whole idea of the thread not to promote stuff you have found but may not be bidding on ?

Just posting it to a limited number of club members is not saying " look at this cool thing i found" its saying " look at this cool thing i have found , don't let them none club member peasants know about it.

And on the " i found this don't bid on it " thats not what i mean. Say you post a find and a member says " oh thats super cool i have been waiting for one of them" then everyone else knows that that person is bidding and if they are feeling kind back off.

My example still holds for this situation, little Johnny the member may have backed off on a find as he just wants it for parts or as a backup, whereas club member Sally had never had one and now cannot get it as Johnny did not know there intentions.

Also, as an aside, in regards to my saying that most people won't back off from bidding once someone has marked their territory : Who do you think is less likely to back off from bidding? A member who has expressed their love for the community by becoming a club member or a regular user who has not done so?

Hypothetically, if there were a club thread and a public thread.. Posting in that public thread and asking people not to bid would probably not have a good effect. However, I think posting the same thing in the club thread would likely have a good effect.

How does this address the issue i raised ?

[Muirium]

Yes, I can't see the harm in having two Great Finds threads. We already have that: people either post on the public thread, or they stay quiet! The Club Finds thread gives people another option for the good stuff. One where, as Photekq says, the audience is much more likely to be understanding. (I mean, there's only a certain list of people that evil sniper could possibly be!)

[matt3o]

mmh, security by obscurity is always a bad move. Personally I think this should stay open, if club members want to open a private thread they are welcome to do so.

I don't think the main thread should be visible to registered users only, but if there's a strong feeling about this I'll open a poll and stand by vox populi.

[Wodan]

I never understood the Great Finds thread as a place to coordinate community bidding so that whoever claimed it first can score it for cheap. I could only imagine the closed, club members only thread to have ANY potential to coordinate bidding. Doing this in public is just giving other people easy targets for sniping.

And if you feel the urge to coordinate bidding with the rest of the web, feel free to post it in both threads ...

[photekq]

Indeed, if we'd move interesting finds to a walled section, someone would start a competing open topic, and then someone would want to forbid that, pissing off other people, and... Pandora's box.

Exactly. This sums my point perfectly.

Oh, definitely not this.. Having a club-only great finds thread would not change things in any way other than the presence of the thread. If someone were to post the same link in the pubic great finds thread then so be it! Nothing can or would be done in that circumstance.

[Spikebolt]

Segregation is never the answer in a community. The thing I enjoyed the most about being a Club Member was that you get absolutely no perk, no advantage, no special feature. You are a member like the others who decided to contribute financially to keep the servers up. Something noble of the sort.

A thread for Club Members and a thread for peasants creates segregation and elitism, something that DT philosophy was supposed to be against.

[andrewjoy]

Segregation is never the answer in a community. The thing I enjoyed the most about being a Club Member was that you get absolutely no perk, no advantage, no special feature. You are a member like the others who decided to contribute financially to keep the servers up. Something noble of the sort.

A thread for Club Members and a thread for peasants creates segregation and elitism, something that DT philosophy was supposed to be against.

Exactly this.

And why even do it when nobody can list a single advantage of doing it ?

[Muirium]

Oh, there are advantages. Read this thread already!

The Great Finds thread is very unusual because it's essentially DT's interface with Ebay. All that scummy information limiting and mano v mano sniping nonsense. Our openness has cost many of us (but not me) a good deal. And I respect the opinions of those who'd plain prefer to murder the Great Finds thread outright. Pretending it's just hugs and kisses like the rest of DT is to be wilfully ignorant of that thread. (As well as this one…)

[andrewjoy]

Thats an argument against the concept of the thread a a whole , not about limiting it to club members. Limiting the main thread to registered users cuts out a significant part of the problem.

[guk]

The only downside for the public/registered users thread would be losing out on some finds by club members, who rather share it with a smaller, and most importantly, familiar group.
Partially, this already has been the case as several members would pm each other about items they knew to be of interest to the other. Basically, a thread for club members bypasses this conveniently and additionally opens room for more items as it creates a bigger audience.
Of course, it's not a perfect solution as there are several veterans who aren't club members, but imho it's still better than providing links to unknown entities who don't give a flying eff about the community.

edit: Obviously I'm taking for granted, that two separate threads are the solution we can agree upon.

[Spikebolt]

Of course, it's not a perfect solution as there are several veterans who aren't club members, but imho it's still better than providing links to unknown entities who don't give a flying eff about the community.

You shouldn't have to pay to prove you give an eff about the community. That's just not right.

[Muirium]

True. But there *are* bad actors who visit our community. Some try shamelessly hawking their ho-hum Ebay auctions (and get a deserved taste of Grumpy Chocolate) while others lurk and adjust their sniper rifle's crosshairs. Ebay brings that out in people. We can pretend they aren't there, but closing our eyes doesn't make them vanish.

I get the feeling that if we ran a vote on limiting the current Great Finds thread's visibility to registered forum users only, it would be a heavy win. I'd vote for that, as would everyone else in favour of change.

And I have a sense that someone may ask to start a new Club Members Only equivalent. Ordinarily, opening up a new thread is no big deal and they could go right ahead. But as Webwit said, we'd need to make a new section in the forum for the required visibility settings, so it should likely need a club vote anyway. I reckon that one would be a closer contest.

Of course, I'd really just like numbers. Keen to run polls on these ideas once we've hammered out the options here.

[guk]

@ spikebolt That's all you read in there? The problem I have is with unregistered lurkers and (next to)non-active registered users. By mentioning veterans who are not club members I already made it clear that paying the club's fee is definitely not the only way to contribute. Take andrewjoy for example, way more involved and controbuting than I am.

[Spikebolt]

I was simply reinforcing why such a measure is not beneficial. If the problem is unregistered lurkers then that problem can be easily solved without creating segregation.

[photekq]

A thread for Club Members and a thread for peasants creates segregation and elitism, something that DT philosophy was supposed to be against.

Yes, it could become a "thread for peasants" if we treated it that way. But we won't, as we're not that kind of club. Nobody in the DT club wants segregation and elitism, and nobody will encourage it. It would just be seen as a place for us to share our finds with a smaller and more personal crowd. Nothing more.

You know, it's not as if we're restricting eBay usage. Anyone can search eBay themselves.

I was simply reinforcing why such a measure is not beneficial. If the problem is unregistered lurkers then that problem can be easily solved without creating segregation.

There are registered snipers who never post too, you know!

[Muirium]

So much of the good stuff happens by PM right now. We're talking about opening up as much as anything else!

[guk]

We recently witnessed how time consuming and investing the registration process is. I only bring this up to emphasize that it wouldn't change much, if at all.

[Spikebolt]

Yes, it could become a "thread for peasants" if we treated it that way. But we won't, as we're not that kind of club. Nobody in the DT club wants segregation and elitism, and nobody will encourage it.

By saying that some members are worthy of your shared items while others (who simply didn't pay club membership) aren't, you're already creating segregation and elitism. I'm not saying you have malicious intent, I'm just saying that's the inevitable outcome whether you play it nice or not.

You know, it's not as if we're restricting eBay usage. Anyone can search eBay themselves.
There are registered snipers who never post too, you know!

There are registered snipers, club member snipers, even snipers that don't browse DT. That is an ebay kinda of problem, not a thread visibility problem.

We recently witnessed how time consuming and investing the registration process is. I only bring this up to emphasize that it wouldn't change much, if at all.

Then wouldn't it make more sense to create a method that was based on time investment/contribution, rather than raw money? Not that I'm in favor of such rules.

So much of the good stuff happens by PM right now. We're talking about opening up as much as anything else!

At first, maybe. In the end what people are against is competition, as soon as the Club Members thread starts bringing competition everything will go back to PMs again... It's not a real solution and will create noisier problems.

[guk]

I doubt that the forum software supports something like 10 posts per month or total posts >250 to gain access to a thread. Otherwise, I'd prefer such an approach.