Guests, Google and the Marketplace

[chip chop]

This maybe a stupid suggestion, but is there anyway of making the Marketplace unsearchable on Google?

The reason I mention this? Well, looking at the visitors to the Marketplace thread there always seems to be a multiple of guests vs registered users, who are these guests?

I was in negotiations with a ebay seller on a board and they would not move on the price, it wasn't a common board. I asked them “why do you think its worth X amount?” they said, “I looked into it on the internet and that's what its worth” I asked... “where did you get the price?” and guess what the answer was? - Deskthority.

So, coming back to my original question / vague point. Is is possible, that by giving ebay seller's free access to the valuations on the marketplace we are contributing to price inflation, that we then have to deal with? Turkeys & Christmas?

Afterall, if you Google Fujitsu N860, Deskthority is the third listing.

Just a thought, and I understand it might already be to late.

[Slom]

The reason I mention this? Well, looking at the visitors to the Marketplace thread there always seems to be a multiple of guests vs registered users, who are these guests?

I'm a guest normally, bc/ I only log in if I want to actually comment on something ...

I was in negotiations with a ebay seller on a board and they would not move on the price, it wasn't a common board. I asked them “why do you think its worth X amount?” they said, “I looked into it on the internet and that's what its worth” I asked... “where did you get the price?” and guess what the answer was? - Deskthority.

So, coming back to my original question / vague point. Is is possible, that by giving ebay seller's free access to the valuations on the marketplace we are contributing to price inflation, that we then have to deal with? Turkeys & Christmas?

If you look through this thread, there have been multiple discussion about this. More to the point: If you restrict access to the marketplace, I will open this topic in "Keyboards" .

I think that informed sellers can be a good thing. Look at the amount of Beamsprings that surfaced this year.

[chip chop]

I'm not sure pointing to one beneficial effect validates your point, or disproves mine.

[pixelheresy]

Likewise, I can reasonably think of cases where the eBay price are waaay out of whack and the member-to-member price is much better, so it would be worthwhile to cite Deskthority.

This tends to be the case with more common vintage boards (G80s, Non-SSK Model Ms, Dell AT101, etc.) where those in ok shape go for low-double digit amounts (unless they have OG doubleshots or square badges, etc.) whereas sellers on eBay think that asking triple-digit prices.

I am into vintage video games as well, and a few years back someone sold a run of the mill NES Action set which included a rare NTSC-US Stadium Events cartridge, and it sold for mad dosh. Immediately afterward, tons of people were putting basic NES decks up on eBay for hundreds/thousands of dollars, not realizing it wasn't the console, but the ultra-rare game. The average seller doesn't know shit beyond what they Google and see within the first 5 min of looking (if that).

In any regard, I agree with Slom... the more info available to all helps breed awareness and sets more realistic and competitive prices.

[Slom]

As I said, we have had this discussion several times before ... look through the "great and interesting finds" thread.

I was very emotionally invested in the discussion the last time this came up. The result was that club members now have their own restricted area. So become a club member and post your valuations there ...

The visibility of other peoples posts are frankly not your business.

Afterall, if you Google Fujitsu N860, Deskthority is the third listing.

But the topic that is found is in photos, not in the marketplace.

[seebart]

This is what myself and others were arguing years ago; the answer is its too late and this is part of why we have these insane prices now. Global online trade happens, end of line.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Spot the Tron fan …

[chip chop]

All fair points, I do not have a answer. But it just seemed a little questionable for community efforts to fuel our own impoverishment (relative) and create more competition for a finite resource.

I'm just trying to think of a way where we get the best of both, global reach but with a community benefit. I am not suggesting going back in time, just asking is there a more beneficial way to navigate the world we are now in?

[pixelheresy]

Not sure. Competition and more knowledge generally causes prices to drop on average, while making it less likely that some rube sells something they don't know what it is worth.

As per Slom's original response, Beamsprings have been coming out of the woodwork, which is great. They generally go for a lot, but instead of some guy finding it, looking at it and saying, "The fuck is this? Who would want an old 70s keyboard" they are Googling it and putting it up for sale. Sure eBay is a racket, but more are around.

The defining principal in commercial value is not any intrinsic value, but what people are willing to pay for it. If things fester at some price and people aren't willing to pay, the prices go down. Simple as that.

But as enthusiast, I would too like to get an awesome deal on purchases. This enables me to buy *more* keyboards! At the same time, it is really useful to say to a seller, yeah... this is not a fair price for IBM PC AT Model-F... I know these sellers are asking, but asking's not getting and here are some private sales and here are the difference in prices between different Model Fs, etc. etc. And you can send them links. They can say no, or they can say let's make a deal then.

[Halvar]

Deskthority: dark scheme of a few guys with a lot of keyboards. Goal: raise the value of their collection.

[depletedvespene]

Deskthority: dark scheme of a few guys with a lot of keyboards. Goal: raise the value of their collection.

¿Cartelthority?


Ok, I'll see myself out.

[chip chop]

Lol Halvar, I have considered that Thomas is a evil genius and he created his youtube videos to shift a load of scrap I.T. Equipment he couldn't sell to China and it's just got out of control! If he starts reviewing WYSE Terminals we will know why!

But, overall good points, no panacea for the issue, and multiple valid points of view. Also the very act of “collecting” the keyboards removes supply from the market and drives up prices anyway. So if supply can broadly match demand, then a open forum that stimulates that supply is a net benefit overall I guess.

It was just a thought.

[Wodan]

To make sure we can get the best Ebay deals due to the Deskthority advantage, the whole forum should be visible to members only. The wiki and all sales and evaluation related pages should only be visible to PAYING CLUB MEMBERS to make sure that we are the elite crew that dominates and controls the vintage keyboard market.

It would also be nice to start an organized disinformation campaign to mislead those nasty ebay noob sellers into offering their unsavers for 25$ because they are useless and expensive to recycle!

Ooooh and did you all know that they used tons of asbestos in Nixdorf CT06 and CT11 keyboards? Stuff like that should be made public and certified recycling and desoldering points like myself should be listed.

Let me be clear - I think the request of this thread is either a good troll or the result of a terrible mind set. You want to hide parts of this internet community for your personal gain? Just to get better ebay scores?

[pixelheresy]

Ooooh and did you all know that they used tons of asbestos in Nixdorf CT06 and CT11 keyboards?

Asbestos in Nixies!? *THAT* is something worth getting behind!

What can we get away with saying is wrong with North Gate Omnikey keyboards!? I shutter at the possibilities!

[chip chop]

Let me be clear - I think the request of this thread is either a good troll or the result of a terrible mind set. You want to hide parts of this internet community for your personal gain? Just to get better ebay scores?

Maybe it's a little of column A and a little of column B, or maybe not. Nothing is that black and white.

But seriously, what is so reprehensible is suggesting that it may not be to the communities advantage to inform the world as to true value? And yes, I am selfish in so much as if I could pay 30% less for the same thing that would be my preference.

[seebart]

I knew that Wodan was a "certified desoldering point" all along...

I agree 100% that certain areas should be restricted to club members only but webwit won't do that and he's got a valid argument: we do not want to become a elite scumbag club.

[Findecanor]

I don't think hiding the forum would change that much for the prices of collectable keyboards. Deskthority's Marketplace is just one of several marketplaces and I think most transactions are on sites like eBay anyway.

But I think the Marketplace should be restricted to registered forum users for another reason: It would prevent dishonest sellers on other sites from casually stealing images from here, images that unlike other images on the site are meant to be temporary and therefore would be hard to trace back here later.
If you are serious about buying something in the Marketplace, you would register anyway.

[chip chop]

Good points, Findecanor.

The point seebart makes via webwit is spot on as well, a totally selective club cannot work either.

[BPX-926]

But I think the Marketplace should be restricted to registered forum users for another reason: It would prevent dishonest sellers on other sites from casually stealing images from here, images that unlike other images on the site are meant to be temporary and therefore would be hard to trace back here later.

Would it be possible to make marketplace images only viewable by those who are logged in? That way it would possibly protect sellers from unscrupulous eBay sellers stealing images without making the whole marketplace closed to the wide internet? It is just an idea to meet halfway. (I do not even know if it is technologically possible.) What do you think?

[webwit]

I was in negotiations with a ebay seller on a board and they would not move on the price, it wasn't a common board. I asked them “why do you think its worth X amount?” they said, “I looked into it on the internet and that's what its worth” I asked... “where did you get the price?” and guess what the answer was? - Deskthority.

So the whole premise here is, if someone has an item with a market value of 100, you want that information hidden, so you can buy it for 30 and then make 70 euro profit on the seller? Sounds legit.

[citrojohn]

I'm another one who generally doesn't log in unless I want to comment or send a message - partly because my archaic mobile browsers take ages to sign in on.

The thought occurs: if DT is a recognised authority for prices, one way to get Ebay prices down is to sell things cheaply on the marketplace. (And hope the sellers don't find the price check thread...)

[chip chop]

So the whole premise here is, if someone has an item with a market value of 100, you want that information hidden, so you can buy it for 30 and then make 70 euro profit on the seller? Sounds legit.

This isn't even close to making an argument for your inferred point of view. If wildly mischaracterising my motivation and assigning distorted values for dramatic effect makes an argument I am almost certainly in the wrong place. I'm trying to remember the last time I had a debate on a similar level, I think it was in a school playground, it was heated discussion about the best Star Wars film, there was only three back then.

A vocal minority seem disinterested in any sort of discussion or development of thought on the subject. A subject that is so settled it keeps reappearing according to Slom, guess what, if it keeps reappearing is it settled? Or is it a wilfull denial of a “possible” legitimate concern?

I am reminded of a quote in situations like this.... “A fanatic is someone who won't change his mind and won't change the subject...”

Of course I am happy to do both, but based on this exchange as a representative sample, I am not sure the feeling is uniform. Great chat, back to the echo chamber.

BTW: If this was a troll, fail. If it wasn't, good god....

[webwit]

This isn't even close to making an argument for your inferred point of view. If wildly mischaracterising my motivation and assigning distorted values for dramatic effect makes an argument I am almost certainly in the wrong place. I'm trying to remember the last time I had a debate on a similar level, I think it was in a school playground, it was heated discussion about the best Star Wars film, there was only three back then.

Says the guy who attempts to dismiss the argument with a nasty ad hominem, lol. The irony. You're basically saying you don't want to discuss that argument, because I suck. Fuck you too then.

[chuckdee]

Good points, Findecanor.

The point seebart makes via webwit is spot on as well, a totally selective club cannot work either.

I think your arguments were undermined from the beginning, by your choice to lump everything together.

That said, it doesn't have to be totally selective to be selective. Having to log in costs nothing other than time and a bit of inconvenience. I have no horse in this race, but did want to point that out.

[Slom]

A vocal minority seem disinterested in any sort of discussion or development of thought on the subject.

Are you by chance thinking that this is a debating society and not a keyboard forum? Hate to disappoint you, some people here are not tea sipping islanders

[webwit]

That is still stupid. The premise is that if someone disagrees with you, it's not debating, but just people to dismiss. In the meantime, close this forum, because before it, an Unsaver was $20 before you all came in.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Oh boy, here we go again …

[webwit]

Better clear the wiki, Beardsmore. People might find information on it.

[seebart]

...because before it, an Unsaver was $20 before you all came in.

That would have been nice but Cindy gave me a fair price though:

Spoiler:

IMGP6752.JPG (964.69 KiB) Viewed 7844 times

And BTW webwit, dont close DT and dont delete the wiki. I put some work in there... Nothing compared to Daniel though.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Better clear the wiki, Beardsmore. People might find information on it.

You're not in much danger of that happening. The information is still all trapped in forum topics where you can't find it.