Which key switch next?

[chzel]

Why not this one?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/111708033429

Also to use it you will need a Soarer's converter, but it's just 5$ for a Pro Micro clone and ~10 mins of your time.

[andrewjoy]

that XT has some bloody strange legends

[chzel]

They are stickers over the standard legends I think.

[snarfarlarkus]

That one isn't tested and the others were a lot cleaner than that one. Can't I just use an XT - PS2 adapter and itll work fine? What is this whole sorarers converter and pro micro clone? Theres also that xwhatsit usb conversion thing? Please shed some light thanks

[chzel]

I don't know of any XT to PS/2 adapter.
Don't confuse them with the passive adapters for AT to PS/2, AT uses the same plug as XT but a totally different protocol.(AT is basically PS/2)
Soarer's converter is a program that you run on a micro-controller to translate the XT protocol to USB.
Written by Soarer, hence the name, and designed to run on a Teensy 2.0, but can be run on an Arduino Pro Micro clone which is ~3 times cheaper but a bit unreliable.

There are of course ready made ones if you don't want to mess around with that stuff.

In my opinion restoration is half the fun of these keyboards, not to mention cheaper!

[Nuum]

Hagstrom makes an XT to PS/2 converter (and also others), but they are a little bit on the expensive side.

[snarfarlarkus]

Wait, so does this cable just convert an XT/AT Model F to USB? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-XT-AT-to- ... 41894d6dc1

Then I need to configure a program such as soarers converter after buying a teensy 2.0/pro micro clone? Then the Model F will work??? This all seems a bit confusing but hopefully I should get it haha.

What if they are the Model Fs with the vga/dvi looking connector? And if they're untested, what if not all keys work???

[chzel]

The link you posted has a ready-made Soarer's converter encased in the cable. It's all you need to make an XT or AT work over USB.
Orihalcon makes them, and they are excellent, just a bit pricey!
If you don't have any experience with electronics it might be the better choice.

You need to balance two main things in your search: "Low price" or "cleaned and tested". They are usually mutually exclusive.
As for the more peculiar F's, they usually are not a good choice for beginners. Stick to standard XT and AT and you'll be fine.

[snarfarlarkus]

So there's no programming required for the Model F to work? Just plug that in and then its ready to use via usb? Its kind of like my Model M. My motherboard didn't supply enough power to my PS/2 port so I had to get an active PS2 to USB converter for it although it wasnt as expensive as $40!

Yeah I know they're generally mutually exclusive but I don't want to invest in a Model F and that $40 plug and when I plug it in and test it on AquaKey I realise some keys are not registering or that the keyboard will work at all.

Also, are there any differences between AT and XT besides the layout? I can't seem to find any of those AT's akin of the photo I posted earlier, only the XT variant. Cheers

[Chyros]

The most important differences are the layout and the protocol, I.e. The language the keyboard speaks. The AT uses the AT protocol which I the same as PS/2, just put out on a 5-pin rather than a 6-pin plug. In theory, you could buy a £1 adapter and make the AT work on a (true) PS/2 port.

The XT uses the same plug, but a different language that a PS/2 (or AT, for that matter) port can't understand. That's why you need an active converter rather than a simple adapter to make it work, the converter must first translate what the keyboard is saying before your computer can understand it. Similarly the AT won't work on USB because that's yet another protocol, so you'd need an active converter to run the AT in USB too.

You can do this cheaply with some soldering of chips and cables and some programming, or you can one pre-made. Orihalcon's are very expensive, but very high quality, come pre-programmed and ready to plug and use immediately. He also covers many other protocols besides XT. He is also easy to contact and more than willing to help with any issues.

[Muirium]

Yup.

The fact we call several very different keyboards "Model F" confuses things. They talk different protocols and need different tactics. Sone even need a new controller. Don't generalise!

[shreebles]

Great resources in this thread. On topic, I'm loving my SSK now, but I too would love to try a capacitive keyboard once. The only IBM I can see replacing it my SSK is the F, AT. It looks lovely and it's the only one that is somewhat compact with a a sensible layout.

Expensive? I got my AT for $25.

And I got 3 SSKs, one of them new in box, for less than that insane $430 figure. I'm a Scotsman for goodness sake!

Anywho, I say try MX clear. It's a crappy switch. (Like all its brothers, which range from so-so to positively poor.) But! It might train you out of that terrible habit you have of always bottoming out. If you insist on whacking every key, a lot of the flavour of different switches is drowned out, making your quest a bit pointless. It's like trying new foods… soaked in ketchup.

I loved the ketchup simile, but your hate of MX is positively inhumane

Call me a peasant but I can't find a lot of bad things about the classic and reliable MX black switch. Especially when you have a smoother variant.

[Muirium]

I don't hate MX black. Actually, hate is far too strong a word for things like this. I don't even really dislike a good smooth MX black. I just much prefer IBM and Topre to them. Perhaps even Honeywell Hall effect if I ever get that board up and running on USB. (Still no progress.) To me, the only good MX is linear. And I'm just not that into linear.

That said, PCB mounted MX blacks are respectable. Just not earth shatteringly awesome like certain other boards. And so MX's dominance of the present mech keyboard age irritates me. When a switch like black space invaders exists, I despair at MX blue!

[snarfarlarkus]

Wow Model F's really are confusing... I think I might plunge on this one. What do you guys think? http://www.ebay.com/itm/171852924872?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT

I will ofcourse have to buy a soarers plug for that and it should be ready to use. I am just worried some keys may not work? I saw an AT on Ebay but its going for $250 or best offer which is quite a lot for me considering I just bought a topre which is quite frankly, underwhelming and overrated. Maybe it'll just take more time with it to appreciate it more (I've only owned it for a couple of weeks now).

[seebart]

...considering I just bought a topre which is quite frankly, underwhelming and overrated.

Uhh go ahead and tick off the topre snobs. I like that.

[andrewjoy]

been trying a topre for a few days now .... they are overrated in my mind

they are not bad , just not amazing.

better than the tactile cherry ( excluding ML) but thats about it.

[seebart]

they are overrated in my mind they are not bad , just not amazing.

Yeah pretty much my line too but let's not get into that again. Preferences. That's all.

[andrewjoy]

indeed , well made bit of kit tho them realforce ,

[Muirium]

Mind, if there was one Ultimate Switch to please everybody, we would have much less to talk about!

Topre is an especially interesting one for me, because of the way it feels better the longer into a typing session I go. It's a fantastic switch for urging me onwards. I use this fact when picking a keyboard for a given piece of work. Just getting started, need to make a racket? IBM. Need to keep pushing, no end in sight? Topre. Want to give up and head to DT to bitch a while? MX.

[snarfarlarkus]

they are overrated in my mind they are not bad , just not amazing.

Yeah pretty much my line too but let's not get into that again. Preferences. That's all.

Yes very true indeed.

How much would AT's go for? I may have found one going for around $150. Is that a fair price? It seems pretty clean but not tested.

[snarfarlarkus]

Also, is a bolt mod able to be done on a Model F? I am afraid the rivets may have come lose if I buy a vintage board. If it can, I may send it to someone to bolt mod.

[Hak Foo]

Model Fs are built differently and don't use rivets in the same way. It's possible, as I understand it, but probably a fool's errand with a chance of causing damage to the PCB.

[snarfarlarkus]

Model Fs are built differently and don't use rivets in the same way. It's possible, as I understand it, but probably a fool's errand with a chance of causing damage to the PCB.

So Model F's dont really need to be bolt modded? What if the rivets become loose and the keystrokes will not feel as crisp

[andrewjoy]

There are no rivets , they use metal clips , sometimes they can snap when you open the plates and then you may need to mod , I have only ever had plates in bad condition do this . 122s could use one line of bolts between the f rows and the main qwerty section but the differance is so small its not worth it unless you need to don't to fix a snapped clip

[Muirium]

Those plastic rivets are the single worst thing about the Model M. And it has a MEMBRANE for goofness sake! The Model F design is so much better.

[andrewjoy]

Indeed, its a big failing point of the model M.

If only they had continued to use the proto-m design we see in some of the 50 key model m's that have the metal clamps of the F

[snarfarlarkus]

That's a relief to hear that only Model M's use the plastic rivets.

Should I plunge on this one? http://www.ebay.com/itm/252019715141?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT - I negotiated the price down to $170 so do you think thats worth it for a Model F AT?

Or this one? http://www.ebay.com/itm/271921424343?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT

Or this one? http://www.ebay.com/itm/111708033429?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT

[Khers]

I would personally never pay even $170 for an AT.

Th XT-layout is a bit weird. I would hang in there and wait for a decently priced AT or an F122.

[andrewjoy]

The XT is also far better made than the AT just saying

122 is the best option if you want it as close to ANSI as possible , i think there is a 122 up on eBay at the mo

[snarfarlarkus]

How are XT's better made then AT's?

I personally think the AT has the best layout as it is somewhat modernized if you know what I mean? The other layouts I guess would still work but are just slightly unorthodox to me.

Ahhhh which layout should I go for???