Which key switch next?

[snarfarlarkus]

The XT is also far better made than the AT just saying

122 is the best option if you want it as close to ANSI as possible , i think there is a 122 up on eBay at the mo

Theres this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-Model-F122- ... 463a3e1a1c

It also comes with a soarers USB converter but some keys are missing and its "not in stock"???

And what about those 'bigfoot' Model Fs? And kishsavers?

[jou]

How are XT's better made then AT's?

I personally think the AT has the best layout as it is somewhat modernized if you know what I mean? The other layouts I guess would still work but are just slightly unorthodox to me.

Ahhhh which layout should I go for???

If you don't mind the size, the F122 is very close to modern keyboard layouts. The alpha area is pretty much winkeyless ISO and can be converted to ANSI without much pain.

This is how mine looked like when I got it:

IMG_0539.jpg (201.64 KiB) Viewed 4963 times

And this is how it looks now:

IMG_0504.jpg (1016.74 KiB) Viewed 4963 times

[snarfarlarkus]

Wow Jou thats a nice 122 you got there! How did you remap those keys like that? And is it difficult to do? I really like how the shift and control are back to normal and your f keys are up there.

And what is the point of changing the foam inside a Model F about?

[andrewjoy]

I have 2 the same so i will try to answer

Its depends on what conversion method you use. If you use a replacement controller there is a nice GUI to change it.

The reason for replacing the foam is that i can degrade over time and lead to a less tactile feel. I have never bothered myself all my foam has been ok.

Most of the time the existing foam is fine , but if you are in there anyway then you may as well change it if needs it.

The layout is very easy to change , its just a case of switching the springs and flippers and putting new caps on it.

[XMIT]

I recognize those key caps jou! Very nice!

You can also do this to an M122 but it will require a bolt mod. Much easier to reconfigure an F122.

[jou]

Thanks for the compliments!

Mine has a Arduino Pro Micro clone stuffed inside with Soarer's converter flashed. Remapping the keys wasn't very difficult once you get a hang of it (I do deal with code and configuration files on a daily basis, so take "not very difficult" with a grain of salt ). If you get stuck, you can ask for help here.

Physically rearranging the keys was a bit tricky but not unsurmountable, even with my mediocre mechanical skills. fohat has a detailed guide on how to do it.

I haven't replaced the foam mat, but I probably should do that soon. Exposed foam parts disintegrates when I touch it and the page down key gets stuck sometimes. Plus the barrel plate has a bit of rust, so I'll also need to repaint it while I'm at it.

[Muirium]

@Snarf: Don't even think about Kishsavers. They are unobtainium. Well, until Ellipse's $350 replica project manufactures them again.

For what it's worth, my 62 key is easily my favourite Model F of all. It's almost as ideal as an HHKB in layout. And weighs 3 kilos!



That's a solid metal case, epic for feel and sound, not so great for lap typing!

[andrewjoy]

my 107 has the same style of case and that is something special , to have a little one that would be even more rigid would be amazing.

[Muirium]

Aye, it is. Pile up your pennies for Ellipse! I'm likely to give it a shot as well. The perfect Kishsaver has HHKB split Shift. And then there's the 77 key TKL.

Argh, all the moneys!

[Chyros]

@Snarf: Don't even think about Kishsavers. They are unobtainium. Well, until Ellipse's $350 replica project manufactures them again.

For what it's worth, my 62 key is easily my favourite Model F of all. It's almost as ideal as an HHKB in layout. And weighs 3 kilos!



That's a solid metal case, epic for feel and sound, not so great for lap typing!

Oh wow, I never even knew that model existed Oo . I can see that for space saver fans that might be just about ideal =o .

[Muirium]

Meet the family:


http://kishy.ca/?p=894#more-894

[fohat]

How did you remap those keys like that? And is it difficult to do?

And what is the point of changing the foam inside a Model F about?

Wcass explains a very quick and simple way to program your key mapping into the Teensy itself:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=17 ... #msg708153

When you take your F apart, it will be immediately obvious whether the foam is still viable!

[Chyros]

Yeah I knew the others but not the 62-key one. Although I'm not necessarily hot on space-saving models, of the four, the 62-key one strikes me as easily the best.

[andrewjoy]

62>104>77>107>122>XT>AT>BIGFOOT>Blueswich

[Muirium]

62>77>AT>XT>all that other junk.

Remember, I like minimalism. An F122 is a fine beast, but not for me. I turned down an Unsaver too. ($25, but it needed a lot of TLC, and I let someone else have it when they asked me.) I wouldn't say no to an APL Unsaver though. Not quite that hardcore layout Buddhist!

And yes, I have AT and XT. AT is the better board. So much more configurable!

[andrewjoy]

Possibly its just my AT ( before i broke it ) but my XT feels far far nicer than an AT. better than a 122 in switch feel if i am fair. The only thing that beats it is the 107 but mine has has unicomp caps in it (107) so they are not as nice as the almost new 1 part caps on my XT.

[seebart]

Possibly its just my AT ( before i broke it ) but my XT feels far far nicer than an AT

No I would say so also. The XT case is better quality. The whole keyboard feels more "solid".

77key > ultra unobtanium.

[andrewjoy]

It is, i think i prefer the look of the 104

[snarfarlarkus]

OK guys. I just plunged for an XT Model F. Was tested and was very clean (I'll do further cleaning once i receive it). I paid $75 for it + shipping. I didn't know whether to pick AT, XT or 122 so I just went for the XT as many of you said it was the best built and felt more 'crisp' and 'solid' than the AT. I will try my best to convert it to ANSI and make it somewhat modernized. Anyone know where to get keycaps for the Model F? I have keycaps for my Model M from Unicomp but the keycaps used in the model F are different, right? Some of its modifier keys are oddly shaped.

Thank you so much for the info guys! All I need now is to buy the soarers converter cable from orihalcon and wait! Cheers

[snarfarlarkus]

Will also be putting my topre up for sale soon after I compare it to the Model F and M. If anyone is interested in a like new 55g white 87U then hit me up before its up on the classifieds.

[Muirium]

Hold on to the Topre until you get settled in with the XT. It's a horrendously weird layout to get used to. Better suited to 1981 than any time since. And the reason I prefer the AT is that you can move springs to different barrels and with the right caps you can make it ANSI, or even a TKL like mine. Meanwhile the XT is essentially stuck the antiquated way it came, forever. The XT does feel a little bit nicer than the AT. But the AT beats it to a pulp when layout and customisability are allowed into the decision.

Why do we Model F guys always harvest our spare parts from XTs? Because they're nowhere near as good as some of their brothers.

I had fun with my XT. It was my first mech, and a real lesson in how to get the best out of Soarer's converter. Remapping and layers were absolutely crucial in making it a useable, remotely practical board. But it's my least used Model F these days. Too damn slow to use, forcing myself to remember nothing is quite where it should be.

[andrewjoy]

Indeed , a more eligent weapon , for a more civilised age.

[Muirium]

An age without arrow keys, or a mouse. (The criminal lack of mods is what I can't forgive. What was NKRO for if all you did on your IBM PC was peck single keys at a time, like some sort of Tipro Man?)

Do you pine for the days before plumbing and electricity too, perchance? I don't know if even the Portland or Austin hipsters are hardcore enough for that!

[jbondeson]

It is, i think i prefer the look of the 104

Yeah, that 104 is very, very nice. Hadn't seen that variant before. I don't even want to think about how much it would cost to obtain one of those...

Edit: and after searching I see that's what they were referring to as the "Unsaver". For some reason I thought that was one of the Kish variants.

[Muirium]

Unsaver is a silly, but infectious name. The 104 has been called it since before we even knew Kishsavers existed. It's a pun on the SSK: IBM's well known Space Saving Keyboard (one of my all time favourites). The 104 saves space compared to a 122, but it's still a hulk!

[snarfarlarkus]

Oh gosh. Just realised there are no arrow keys nor page up/down... Hahaha hopefully remapping the keys will allow somewhat a usable layout. Yeah I will hold onto my topre for a bit before hopefully settling into a Model F. I care more about key feel than actual layout so hopefully I can make do with its layout.

Is there anywhere I can get full sized keycaps for the modifier keys that are oddly shaped by the way? Cheers

[Muirium]

Welcome to the XT trap!

An AT can be swapped about pretty easily. Here's mine:



Note the ANSI Return, HHKB style backspace, and arrow keys. All additions of my own. I kept the original "stepped" mods either side of the spacebar because I like those. They help remind me this still isn't a standard ANSI keyboard.

But with more work than I did, such a thing is possible on the AT:



Extra mods and a standard 7u spacebar! The AT has the sense pads to support this. Drilling is required to seal the deal, however. I haven't tried this yet.

ATs are awesome. XTs… well, you have to mod your expectations instead! You're looking at something more like this:



Model M and Unicomp caps will work on Model F. But getting the right size? Trouble.

[Khers]

I have an XT-layout Bigfoot that I love for the feel, but loathe for the layout. Ultimately it means that I use it far less than I should.

[Muirium]

Yeah, they're a challenge.

For a while, my XT was the only mech I had. So I configured it quite a bit:



All done using Soarer's converter. The important stuff was using the numapad as a navigation block instead (use numbers on a secondary layer) and of course repurposing several random bottom row keys as extra mods.

Oh yeah, I should update it sometime. I never used to know how to do layer locks: I would hold Fn whenever using the numpad to enter numbers. Soarer's is smarter than that, though.

Amusingly, the XT was where I learned the HHKB navigation layer! It has the perfectly placed Fn key to train with.

[snarfarlarkus]

Thats an awesome layout you did with the remapping Murium! Do you think its possible to make an XT almost ANSI? Your AT seems pretty much ANSI and it looks awesome.

I should also use the numpad as a nav cluster.