The effects of rivet loss on Model M feel

[Tycn]

I've been using the lovely '87 Space Saver I received from cactux for the past x.

Recently I managed to get my hands on some other Model Ms and was surprised to find that I preferred their key feel. The tactile feedback felt more precise, and the thunk of bottoming out was more authoritative and less plasticky.

Opened them up, all but 2 or 3 rivets were intact. Open up the SSK and see this:



I have heard that the 84 key feels identical to the fullsized version, so would the loss of rivets be the source of the difference? I have not noticed any inconsistencies across the board and even in the areas where rivets are intact it feels quite different to the tenkeyed I tried.

[webwit]

My guess is that the Space Saver just had a lot more usage. The key feel of well-used Ms can deteriorate over time despite the near indestructibleness of this switch type. This has been attributed not only to missing rivets but also to the springs and the membrane hit by the spring hammers a zillion times.

[cactux]

[Account and posts deleted on request]

[Tycn]

Yeah, looks like it. Need it to get to the springs and hammers as well.

[cactux]

[Account and posts deleted on request]

[Tycn]

The springs do look decent from the outside.

Thanks guys. Now there's just the problem of my total ineptitude with anything handheld but I can probably pay someone to do it if the rivet loss ever becomes debilitating.

[cactux]

[Account and posts deleted on request]

[Half-Saint]

[self-promotion] If you're in the EU, I can do the bolt-mod for you for a fee

Cheers

[cactux]

[Account and posts deleted on request]

[Tycn]

Yeah, I appreciate the offer but it's not really feasible.

I lack the equipment for the epoxy mod (and it doesn't look very stable) so I'll probably end up using bolts or looking for someone to do it when I have to. The board still feels fairly nice at the moment.

[webwit]

Equipment for epoxy mod? Keep it firmly pressed together, apply epoxy.

[Tycn]

The half a dozen clamps or just as many hands to keep it still for several hours

[webwit]

You're over-complicating. Clamps are nice, but you can also improvise and firmly press together and put a rock on it.

Here's a picture of me demonstrating such a rock:



This only works for doing missing rivets, not if you want to replace them all.

[litster]

I just got a 1987 space saving keyboard that has lost more than half of its rivets. It still works and everything still clicks. I could do a bolt mod with it. I haven't seen very many bolt modded Model Ms on ebay. And if I remember correctly they didn't sell like hot cakes.

Question for you elders, do bolt-modded Model M keyboards (space saving keyboards included) has their value lowered a bit because it is no long original?

[cactux]

[Account and posts deleted on request]

[JBert]

I just got a 1987 space saving keyboard that has lost more than half of its rivets. It still works and everything still clicks. I could do a bolt mod with it. I haven't seen very many bolt modded Model Ms on ebay. And if I remember correctly they didn't sell like hot cakes.

Question for you elders, do bolt-modded Model M keyboards (space saving keyboards included) has their value lowered a bit because it is no long original?

Yes it drops

I'd say it depends on the value when you bought it - NIB or NOS examples will obviously be "tainted", but I can't see how a well-maintained keyboard in working condition would sell for a lower value. If this were the case, Brian the Ebay seller would have stopped epoxying missing rivets ages ago.

Just sell it well by comparing your bolt-reinforced keyboard to those measly plastic riveted space-saving keyboards you can buy at any corner shop.

[cactux]

[Account and posts deleted on request]

[webwit]

A bolt mod might be the equivalent of a second hand car for sale which had a repair after a major accident, and you don't know the skills of the people who repaired it. Sure it is repaired, but you'd probably prefer a car which didn't have structural damage to start with.

[cactux]

[Account and posts deleted on request]

[Tycn]

I've started considering this... again. Recently noticed that the arrow keys bottom out with a jarring plasticky impact which goes away when squeezing the plates together.

A partial bolt mod seems like the most practical solution at the moment. I assume it's as easy as drilling where broken rivet was through the backplate/membrane/barrel assembly before applying bolt from one end and nut from other?

[BiNiaRiS]

I've started considering this... again. Recently noticed that the arrow keys bottom out with a jarring plasticky impact which goes away when squeezing the plates together.

A partial bolt mod seems like the most practical solution at the moment. I assume it's as easy as drilling where broken rivet was through the backplate/membrane/barrel assembly before applying bolt from one end and nut from other?

I'd just bolt mod the entire thing. In another year do you want to open it up and do more of it all again? A bolt mod will last a very long time if not indefinately.

As for lowering the value, exterior condition matters far more than anything else. If its aa commok model number a bolt mod generally increases the value. If its a rare board for collection purposes I can see it not adding value and in some cases devaluing it.
Sent from my EVO

[ripster]

I bolt modded a corner of a Model M 1391401 with a couple of bolt/nuts and it works fine.

Only takes a minute to open up a Model M.

Modding a Topre Realforce is a PITA. All those fucking screws!

[litster]

Modding a Topre Realforce is a PITA. All those fucking screws!

Because it comes factory bolt-modded! And now you have all those f'ing screws on your bolt-modded Model M.

[ripster]

Actually I used only 9 bolt/nuts for my Euro IBM Model M Space Saving Keyboard ISO mod.

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:7046

Works fine. A bit pingy but who gives a fuck about ping?

[Tycn]

My main concern with doing a full mod is that I currently don't have a Dremel, only an ordinary drill and more drilling means more chance of screwing something up. Resale value is not an issue for me since I don't intend to ever part with this board but I'd still hate to permanently disfigure it.

Will probably grabbing the gear required and attempting the mod in a few days. I'll update with hopefully successful results.

Not sure if it's placebo but reseating the keyboard assembly in the casing a few times definitely seems to have made an impact on the sound. Keypresses somehow seem more solid and meatier now.

[fossala]

Don't you have a friend with a dremal?

[Tycn]

Err, possible but I've never sought to inquire about their power tools. Guess now's as good a time as any.