Alps Appreciation

[fohat]

Yesterday I pulled a Wang 724 (my first) out of a scrap heap (outside). The switches are cream but they feel terrible, in that way like you have to press hard to break them free from some sort of residue holding them back.

The keyboard is hopeless but I am very glad to have the caps, and I am hoping that when I take out the switches they are "merely" dirty rather than rusted so that I can clean them up and salvage them. And I have quite a few spares that I could rob parts from, especially blacks and whites.

What are some of the popular opinions of these switches? How do they compare to the various switches that Apple used?

PS - I am still waiting and hoping that somebody will find a good long-term lubricant for Alps stems!

[seebart]

Fair warning it makes the switches really snappy. I have a few Salmons that I tested it on and they sounds darn near clicky after lubing them with teflon. MoS2 will give you a smooth, but less snappy result.

Elaborate "snappy" please! Snappy in a good way?

I've tried the lubricant on Oranges, Salmons, and Creams. The lube doesn't change the oranges a whole lot, but with the Salmons and Creams I've found that it makes them significantly smoother on the upstroke as the resistance between the slider and tactile leaf is reduced. A consequence of that is that the slider impacts the top of the housing faster and it makes more noise.

Thanks for the info!

A liquid suspension dry lube is what I use to recondition old alps switches.

Got any exact product names?

Teflon: DuPont Teflon Non-Stick Dry-Film Lubricant (the liquid squeeze bottle not the spray).
MoS2: Sentry Solutions SMOOTH-KOTE (get the needle applicator).

Applying the Teflon is a pain. I got an empty needle applicator that I use because the default packaging is used for coating large metal objects like blades. It's designed to be applied to metal but I have seen it work well with plastics as well (I'm typing on a keyboard that I did this to currently). But only time will tell how it will hold up longterm.

keyboards-f2/smooth-alps-t13534.html?hi ... be#p301194

[keycap]

Yesterday I pulled a Wang 724 (my first) out of a scrap heap (outside). The switches are cream but they feel terrible, in that way like you have to press hard to break them free from some sort of residue holding them back.

The keyboard is hopeless but I am very glad to have the caps, and I am hoping that when I take out the switches they are "merely" dirty rather than rusted so that I can clean them up and salvage them. And I have quite a few spares that I could rob parts from, especially blacks and whites.

What are some of the popular opinions of these switches? How do they compare to the various switches that Apple used?

PS - I am still waiting and hoping that somebody will find a good long-term lubricant for Alps stems!

Are they the older type of switches with long switchplates? I've noticed that the slider will build up some sort of residue over time that makes the switches have a jammy feel, you can get it off the slider with a microfiber cloth. You'll know that it needs to be cleaned if you shine light on the slider and it looks matte rather than glossy.

[emdude]

Does anyone have a loose Dell AT101 plate lying around? I am working on a AT101/SGI 60% plate and would appreciate if anyone could measure a few things for me.

[fohat]

Does anyone have a loose Dell AT101 plate lying around? I am working on a AT101/SGI 60% plate and would appreciate if anyone could measure a few things for me.

I have an AT101W here, but I don't have calipers. What do you need?

[emdude]

Actually I am working on an AT101W plate as well. For that I need measurements for the space bar's bottom two stabs, distances that is, the ones right below the circular stabs.

For the AT101, I'm just trying to get measurements for the various space bar stabs, so a Focus or Northgate or anything with a 7u space bar might work too, assuming the stabs are spaced the same.

[alh84001]

Can you be a bit more specific for the exact measurements you need on AT101W. I took this measurement for orientation purposes - http://i.imgur.com/i7uJaZK.jpg, this is the distance between two wire stab inserts on their wider parts. I took a couple more, but I doubt that is what you're after - http://imgur.com/a/JeeVD

[emdude]

The first image is what I am looking for, and perhaps also the measurement of one of the stabs relative to the circular stab above it. It might help if you could remove those two stabs and take a measurement of the holes. It's fine if you can't.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but according to the first image, it appears that the two stabs are approximately 86 mm apart?

EDIT: Whoops, it is actually ~90.4 mm, isn't it? I am also working under the assumption that the two stabs are spaced equidistant from the space bar switch mounting hole.

[alh84001]

I took some more measurements. I took the circular stab out, but I couldn't manage that with the wire stab. Here's the pic:

• Red line - 90.6mm
• Orange line - 91.8mm, this is practically the distance between holes, as plastic here almost doesn't overlap with the hole, and I pushed the stabs to the side when measuring
• Orange line up to the yellow line - 14.3mm, this is not that precise though
• Green line - 4.1mm
• Blue line - 10.5mm

Edit:
Yes, they are equidistant from the switch hole.

[emdude]

Okay, great, thanks!

I should have the design done in a bit, would really appreciate it if you tested the space bar stab placement (the two circular ones in particular) on a test printout or something.

EDIT: Could you also perform one more measurement, if you do not mind? I am trying to confirm the distance between the two circular stabs, as were provided to me by BlueNalgene. This is what I believe he gave me:

[alh84001]

No problem . I probably won't be able to do it today, though.

I have the above distance measured as 63.25mm. Could his measurement be from an AT101, sans W?

[emdude]

Okay, it appears your measurement might be the correct one, I will adjust it to match. It might be for the AT101, but he told me it was for the AT101W, weird..

[emdude]

Okay, here's the (hopefully) finished plate:

AT101W.png (12.33 KiB) Viewed 5477 times

It is especially important that the two circular space bar stabs are tested to make sure they are spaced correctly.. I am hoping stuff that was generated by Swill's plate builder like the distance between switch mounting holes is also correct..

Thanks again for your help, alh84001! Now I just need to do the AT101/SGI plate... And perhaps I should just start another topic in the Workshop subforum for this.

[alh84001]

So I printed this pic, and at 100% it just fits on A4 landscape page. Here is the printout right next to the plate
http://imgur.com/a/HITUT

Now, I don't know if it is visible from the pics because of the perspective, but it seems to me that the left circular stab should be moved a tiny bit to the left. The right one should be moved even less or not at all. The wire hooks seem to be a bit too far spaced apart. I took the measurement of the distance between them on the printout - from inner side of the lines closer to the switch mount hole and it measured some 92.4mm as shown in the last pic.

BTW, have you tried contacting BlueNalgene on GH. I bet he could help you with a lot of this.

Some pics in this post https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=81 ... msg2157691. And I see you've been posting in that thread

[Morituri]

Weird. I have what looks like exactly the same keyboard (with Orange Alps switches) and I pulled the space bar to take a measurement. But mine only has the stab socket on the left side. On the right, no stab socket and not even a hole in the plate for it to mount in. The right side of the spacebar has another alps keyswitch stem in the place where the stab ought to be, but there's no corresponding keyswitch hole in the plate. And the stab stem on the left side of the spacebar is removable; it is mated to the keyboard via a very small cross-shaped stem (looks like a half-scale, upside-down Cherry keystem).

I can only conclude that multiple versions of this keyboard were made.

I acquired some non-funct keyboards to "harvest" alps keyswitches out of them to use in a keyboard build. They were all the same model Apple ADB keyboard. I didn't notice any distinctions between them at the time. Now I have about 400 Alps orange switches and nearly that many dingy old keycaps (which need retrobrighting, and many of which appear to have the legends partially worn away). I still need to plug each switch into a test circuit on a breadboard and make sure I'm using a full set that actually works when I do the build.

[alh84001]

From what I remember when I disassembled them, my Apple keyboards (m0115 and m0116) also had stabiliser insert only on the left. However, Dell AT101(W) is a whole different beast - namely, it's Alps' own bigfoot chasis, so other than using the same switch family, everything else is different.

[emdude]

So I printed this pic, and at 100% it just fits on A4 landscape page. Here is the printout right next to the plate
http://imgur.com/a/HITUT

Now, I don't know if it is visible from the pics because of the perspective, but it seems to me that the left circular stab should be moved a tiny bit to the left. The right one should be moved even less or not at all. The wire hooks seem to be a bit too far spaced apart. I took the measurement of the distance between them on the printout - from inner side of the lines closer to the switch mount hole and it measured some 92.4mm as shown in the last pic.

BTW, have you tried contacting BlueNalgene on GH. I bet he could help you with a lot of this.

Some pics in this post https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=81 ... msg2157691. And I see you've been posting in that thread

Thanks for checking. I am not sure what to say or do about the discrepancies. The measurements for the stabs are what you gave me, for the bottom two stabs, they are 91.8. Perhaps it is the print out itself? I am unfortunately relatively inexperienced with CAD so I am at a bit of a loss.

I did speak to BlueNalgene about this, he's helped me a bit already but he seems to be rather busy with real world stuff so I don't want to bother him for now.

[alh84001]

I did the measurement again,this time a bit more carefully, and it comes to 92.1mm between insides of the lines, and 91.3 between outsides of the line, so I guess it fits better.

[Blaise170]

Matter of fact, some of the M0115s are different from each other. I found that out the hard way when I tried using stabs from another M0115 on a project I was doing and the stabs weren't compatible.

[emdude]

I've opened a separate topic for the plates in the Workshop subforum so I won't be cluttering this any longer. Any help would still be really great!

[guster11]

I am looking for some thoutghts on a project idea I have going here. I picked up a pretty nice focus 2001 keyboard at a flea market this weekend for 10 bucks. Thing is, I already have one in basically mint condition and they both have white alps. I was originally gonna flip the board and make a nice 20 or so bucks off it.

But, I have a non-functional full size board with blue alps in it and I have more or less given up on trying to get it working, so I am looking to do something with the switches. Originally I was gonna make a custom board, but given the time and cost of that I am really starting to like the idea of soldering the switches onto the focus instead now. What would you guys do?

[Blaise170]

I'd swap the switches.

[fohat]

What would you guys do?

A Dell AT101(W) is a much nicer keyboard chassis than the Focus, but the Focus has better key caps.

[seebart]

Either way I would desolder the blue Alps and keep them for whatever project you decide to take on.

[guster11]

I noticed when I took apart the focus its definetly not the best chassis, its a lot of plastic but I do like the layout and the colored doubleshot keys are great.

Seems like a decent board to swap the swithces into, since its at such little cost to me-minus the hours spent desoldeirng.

[Chyros]

I noticed when I took apart the focus its definetly not the best chassis, its a lot of plastic but I do like the layout and the colored doubleshot keys are great.

Seems like a decent board to swap the swithces into, since its at such little cost to me-minus the hours spent desoldeirng.

Another Focus fan layout! Cool .

Essentially it boils down to what you think is more important, really. Most Focus boards have only modest build quality, while the AT101 is a proven, solid chassis. However, the Focus has an interesting layout and an arguably more attractive look. Unfortunately the caps are only partly interchangeable, so it's up to you really .

[robotsokk]

My first Alps board arrived today, ahead of schedule. It's an [wiki]Apple Standard Keyboard[/wiki]. I was hoping for Alps orange switches, and judging by the serial number (along with looking at another eBay listing for an ASK with a higher serial number which appeared to have orange switches), I was hopeful I'd get some.

Lo and behold, I remove the first keycap, and beneath it I find a glorious orange Alps switch.


The keycaps are currently taking a bath; I'll get around to opening up the board and washing the case, scrubbing the plate, etc. in due time. My eventual plan is to harvest the switches for a custom build, but for now I plan to clean up the board and enjoy it a bit.

From the short bit I've typed on it, the orange Alps have a nice bump when pressed slowly, but at normal typing speed the bump is more subtle, just as with any other tactile switch. The key travel is definitely shorter than I'm used to on a Cherry switch (or a buckling spring board), but I don't find that to be a negative at all. Some of the switches feel like they could use a bit of lubing. However, I've no experience with opening up and modding Alps switches, so I'll be doing more research before undertaking anything like that (even if my research points me in the direction of not lubing the switches at all).

One day I'd like to try out some salmon/pink Alps for comparison, but I'm extremely pleased to have landed a good set of orange Alps. That's all -- just wanted to share my happy finding

[Chyros]

Cool, glad you're enjoying them . If you need help on how to open and clean Alps switches, I made a tutorial a while ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Mhmb2kBuwQ

[robotsokk]

Cool, glad you're enjoying them . If you need help on how to open and clean Alps switches, I made a tutorial a while ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Mhmb2kBuwQ

This is perfect -- bookmarked. Thank you!

[Wingpad]

My first Alps board arrived today, ahead of schedule. It's an [wiki]Apple Standard Keyboard[/wiki]. I was hoping for Alps orange switches, and judging by the serial number (along with looking at another eBay listing for an ASK with a higher serial number which appeared to have orange switches), I was hopeful I'd get some.

...

One day I'd like to try out some salmon/pink Alps for comparison, but I'm extremely pleased to have landed a good set of orange Alps. That's all -- just wanted to share my happy finding

The other day I got an Orange Alps keyboard like this one but yours is in far better condition, the plate from mine is so rusty and all the sliders have pretty severe wear marks on them. So indeed, congrats on your happy finding! Overall, mine is/was pretty disappointing, haha. I was really hoping they'd be smoother than salmon/pink Alps but they're in such poor condition that the salmon/pink alps are actually smoother I am going to have to do a lot of work if I want to make them viable for a project.