ALPS/ALPS-like switch weaknesses

[timw4mail]

I have used keyboards with a lot of different switch types, from rubber dome/membrane, Cherry MX, clones and compatibles, buckling spring, and ALPS/ALPS-style switches.

With that said, I think that ALPS switches have a few areas where they are weaker compared to other switch types. (This is based on experience mainly with damped-cream tactile, and Matias click switches):

• The sliders are more likely to bind up if a key is not hit on center
• Removing keycaps can be dangerous to the caps and/or the switches because the fit is so tight
• Modern board options are very limited, and Matias seems to be the only one making switches
• Keycap options are fairly limited

[Yasu0]

They dirty-out (or wear-out age-out) faster than some others... I don't like mine that much, but then again I've probably never had a fresh and so clean one to really know. How many others experience is like mine? Probably many. I think its the normal alps newb experience at this point unfortunately.

[Riverman]

I have a couple of old Apple keyboards with Alps switches, and I've owned quite a few AEK IIs over the years. It's amazing how bad the click gets on the cream damped switches when they get dirty or worn out. I haven't run into that problem with the orange or salmon ones, but then those keyboards don't get as much use. I've heard bad things about Matias's switch reliability, as I'm sure most people have, and the feel of their switches is pretty crappy compared to the real deal. I was not impressed with their quiet tactile switches. The lack of keycap options was definitely an issue when I bought a Matias keyboard for my Mac. I replaced most of the keycaps with ones from a Tai Hao set, but they were still going to get shiny, which bugs me.

[Bjerrk]

I think those are pretty fair observations. The click and actuation getting out of sync due to wear and tear is also a shame.
In general, one of the selling points of "mechanical" keyboards is durability, but Alps switches don't do all that well in that department.

And this is all coming from someone who really likes Alps switches, by the way.

[The Laptop Lagger]

I have used 4 Alps style switches of which 1 extensively.
ALPS SKCM Black Tactile,
these have a big reputation for turning into shite when dirty, got my Dell AT101W this very day and it seems free of any real issue, I've quite enjoyed my typing experience so far, even as I am typing this reply so far. I do notice that the keys aren't brand new but they don't seem very worn either, no significant binding on off centre keypresses either. Your mileage may very though as I'd grade this board at like an 8/10
Matias Quiet Click
These switches were weird, I only used them for a week because after that a combination of cheap build quality and user error kinda put the board on hold (long story short a switch housing snapped as I was taking a cap off for cleaning, entirely my own fault but never had that happen on any board before other than NMB/Hi-Tek). They basically felt like a worse version of ALPS SKCM Cream Damped in my opinion, though I've heard other people prefer the Matias I personally find them too mushy and had considered removing the dampers prior to the aforementioned demise. (it is going to be donated to a friend who may repair it or use the switches and caps as spares)
ALPS SKCL Green Linear
Another keyboard I got in today, about which you can find a post on my profile as I am trying to figure out info about it.
I have very limited experience with these switches. They feel quite nice overall, I personally don't love linears but these feel really smooth if a bit heavy for my liking. The board is in quite decent condition apart from yellowing, so I am uncertain how worn these switches are, especially given their advanced age.
ALPS SKCM Cream Damped
These switches I've personally used for many many hours, my Apple AEKII has been my main board for half a year and I've typed a ridiculous amount on it in that time. I love this board and the switches. I think mine is a particularly clean example as I've encountered no issues in my time using the board. I am not necessarily into the whole "Dampened" thing but I adore the bottom out feel of these switches. Add to that the fact that the well built AEKII chassis adds a rather deep noise and you get a keyboard that I very much enjoy.

So that's my experience with ALPS, apart from the Matias I've really had a good time with these boards. I'd still love to try Alps Blue clicky switches however, and I might clickmod the AT101W down the line, though I think that might be a bit excessive, and I don't like the idea of permanently modifying old components.
Cheers!

[Muirium]

Alps are like dairy: really satisfying and unlike quite anything else, but they don’t age well.

Well, not unless they’re cheese, I guess. Anyone tried cave ageing Alps?

The “mechanical keyboards are prized for their longevity” thing is a myth. Depends entirely on the keyboard. (Hall effect: yes. Model M: no no!) Alps is especially bad in that respect. Look at Alps the wrong way and they’re wrecked. The rubberdome / scissor switch keys on my PowerBook have stood up to more long term and intense use than I’d ever expect from Alps without key failures.

[zrrion]

I am not really sure what people are doing to their keyboards that are ruining them so quickly! I'm not even especially careful with my boards either so I can only imagine the sorts of conditions other folks are typing under.

Click/actuation mismatch is an issue when they get worn out but in my experience this happens more often woth boards that have had something pressing the keys down for an extended period of time so a used alps board stored in dubious conditions is more likely to experience it than a new one that you take care of. If I recall MX blues stop clicking at all which I guess is a type of mismatch so click issues aren't unique to alps, but as far as good switches go I think alps clickies go they may be the most fragile. Tactile alps don't suffer from a tactility/actuation mismatch but do start clicking eventually unless you have brown/neon alps. It's easily repairable, as is roughness from dust/use so I am not sure it is fair to hold that against them any more than one would hold the need to bolt mod/replace foam against a buckling spring switch.

[Menuhin]

Alps are like dairy: ... they don’t age well.

Well, not unless they’re cheese, ... Alps?
...

Aged cheese made with milk from the Alps? I like that...

Being the 2nd most common switches (not counting rubberdome / scissor switches), Alps switches are more interesting than their MX design counterparts. Alps' structural freedom (or inconsistency in how they evolved) allows the possibility to create quite different key feels, blue, green, brown, orange, dampened, and the pine vs bamboo (imo worse) variants.

However, they're not loved for many reasons, and I agree with most of the observations above:

• non-centered press binding issues even with new switches
• common accidents of breaking key cap stems upon removal
• drastic performance drop when their condition is not clean
• higher maintenance as they get dirty more easily

[Bjerrk]

The “mechanical keyboards are prized for their longevity” thing is a myth. Depends entirely on the keyboard.

I wouldn't call it a myth as much as an over-simplification. Surely, there are good reasons - even on a "material science" level - to say that "mechanical" keyboards at least have the potential to last a lot longer than your standard domes?

But it's certainly true that keyboard longevity is not well-captured by switch lifetime measurements in terms of millions of keypresses. You could certainly create an optoelectric switch with a "lab lifetime" in the billions, which could be completely screwed over by dust in real use

[timw4mail]

Being the 2nd most common switches (not counting rubberdome / scissor switches), Alps switches are more interesting than their MX design counterparts. Alps' structural freedom (or inconsistency in how they evolved) allows the possibility to create quite different key feels, blue, green, brown, orange, dampened, and the pine vs bamboo (imo worse) variants.

I'm not sure ALPS switches were ever second most common (does that mean in keyboard models, switch variety, or something else?), with the very large number of linear switch types, and the once very common foam & foil switches. That said, they were ubiquitous until cost became the biggest priority in keyboards.

However, they're not loved for many reasons, and I agree with most of the observations above:

• non-centered press binding issues even with new switches
• common accidents of breaking key cap stems upon removal
• drastic performance drop when their condition is not clean
• higher maintenance as they get dirty more easily

It's a shame the SMK ALPS-mount (Monterey) switches didn't catch on more. The smaller slider improves on binding issues, and don't seem to hold on to keycaps as dangerously tight.

[The Laptop Lagger]

It's a shame the SMK ALPS-mount (Monterey) switches didn't catch on more. The smaller slider improves on binding issues, and don't seem to hold on to keycaps as dangerously tight.

For real though, don't pay close attention and boom dead switch. I've mainly noticed this issue on Matias myself

[wyatt8740]

For what it's worth, the only time I've had an SKCM switch fail to register reliably (Home key on an AEK with oranges), just using it regularly for a couple weeks after picking the board up fixed the problem on its own.

Also, while I can understand how a board stored in an attic might have dirt issues, in my experience I've yet to have to clean any of my switches on any of the Alps boards I've owned from 2010 to now. They don't seem to get dust contaminated too easily just sitting on a desk or in a plastic bin in a closet. I think the keycaps shield the slits from a lot of dust.

They dirty-out (or wear-out age-out) faster than some others... I don't like mine that much, but then again I've probably never had a fresh and so clean one to really know. How many others experience is like mine? Probably many. I think its the normal alps newb experience at this point unfortunately.

If your switches are black alps, yeah, I didn't like mine much either.
Definitely the least fun switch I've had (apart from Fujitsu Peerless, which felt really nice on single unit keys but bound horribly on the others).
However, if you linearize them, black alps feel pretty great in my opinion. Even the "bamboo/slitless" kind.

I had a low opinion of Alps switches based on my experiences with an AT101W until I found a board with oranges. My white alps board also feels good. I'm partial to buckling springs when it comes to clicky switches, though.

With that said, I think that ALPS switches have a few areas where they are weaker compared to other switch types. (This is based on experience mainly with damped-cream tactile, and Matias click switches):

• The sliders are more likely to bind up if a key is not hit on center

I have had three Alps boards (black, orange, and white) - I don't remember the black binding, but don't own it anymore. I still have the white and orange boards. Neither of them have ever had binding issues. In fact, my Model M's "bind" slightly more on corners.
It's worth noting that I have never tried a dampened switch, so maybe those behave differently. From what I can tell a lot of dampened switches are "bamboo."
Are your switches dirty? And how are your wide caps stabilized? Are the dampened creams the kind with slits or without?
Worst binding I have ever had was with a dirty/worn Fujitsu Peerless (FKB4725).

• Removing keycaps can be dangerous to the caps and/or the switches because the fit is so tight

True; I popped a keycap off a board once and took the top of the shell with it.
On the other hand, though, a problem I have with MX switches is that they come off easily, and I have had MX caps that splintered and then didn't hold on at all.
Between the two cases, I'd prefer "too tight" since alps switches at least re-assemble relatively easily once you figure out the trick (do it upside down) and I have never had an alps keycap break yet.

• Modern board options are very limited, and Matias seems to be the only one making switches

That isn't a flaw inherent to the design, and I question the need for "modern" designs anyway.
However, I accept that some people might find it important, and it certainly makes MX easier to get in good shape.
It is unfortunate that a lot of the more "modern" looking Alps caps out there are pretty hard/expensive to find (example: Sega Teradrive keyboard).
Also, I don't have any Matias boards/switches, but from what I've heard from others they and simplified Alps (SKBM) switches don't really hold a candle to SKCM switches. Don't know how true that is until I get a chance to try some, though.

• Keycap options are fairly limited

This one is simultaneously true and false. There are tons of vintage Alps boards, alps clone boards, and non-clone alps mount boards out there with a huge variety of caps. On the other hand, though, if by "limited" you mean something like "dark colored caps with white print are fairly limited," "[specific color] colored caps are fairly limited," or "novelty caps are fairly limited," I 100% agree with your statement. It's unfortunate.

I feel like if Alps hadn't dropped the SKCM and then SKBM lines when mechanical boards were dropping off the face of the earth, but had kept the lines and tooling running like Cherry and Unicomp did, they might have found themselves in a profitable position now, since they've sort of made a resurgence in the last decade. They handily beat any "tactile" MX switch I have ever tried (just blues, browns, greens), so I can imagine the "custom keyboard" crowd would like them a lot.

MX mount took its current position not because it was necessarily the best switch, but because it was one of the only remaining good quality switches that were still on the market when mechanical boards started entering mainstream again, and also had features like backlighting that sell well these days. So naturally, caps for MX switches (switches which you could actually buy new) are more prevalent.

I don't consider SKBM/SKBL switches to be a very good counterpoint, since I do feel that they are inferior to the SKCM/SKCL ones and also possibly inferior to cherry switches overall.

Since Alps seems to be making a killing off laptop touchpads and laptop keyboards these days, though, I'm not surprised that they don't seem to think it's worth their time to re-create them. It's unfortunate, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.

Also, there are non-Matias Alps clone switch makers out there, Hua-Jie, for instance. They apparently suck, but they do still exist.

It's a shame the SMK ALPS-mount (Monterey) switches didn't catch on more. The smaller slider improves on binding issues, and don't seem to hold on to keycaps as dangerously tight.

For real though, don't pay close attention and boom dead switch. I've mainly noticed this issue on Matias myself

Do they permanently self-destruct, though?
The one time a white alps switch popped apart while I was pulling a cap, I was able to re-assemble it without even removing it from the plate.
Again, never had a Matias. It's also a shame that I've not had a chance to try "Monterey Blues" (SMK).
If the Matias ones do self destruct, I wonder if it's just because of the clear plastic that they use having less durability than the black shells did?

[The Laptop Lagger]

Do they permanently self-destruct, though?
The one time a white alps switch popped apart while I was pulling a cap, I was able to re-assemble it without even removing it from the plate.
Again, never had a Matias. It's also a shame that I've not had a chance to try "Monterey Blues" (SMK).
If the Matias ones do self destruct, I wonder if it's just because of the clear plastic that they use having less durability than the black shells did?

It snapped two of the pins, and I don't think I was any more or less forceful than with any other Alps board, I might've just gotten intensely unlucky though.

[wyatt8740]

Do they permanently self-destruct, though?
The one time a white alps switch popped apart while I was pulling a cap, I was able to re-assemble it without even removing it from the plate.
Again, never had a Matias. It's also a shame that I've not had a chance to try "Monterey Blues" (SMK).
If the Matias ones do self destruct, I wonder if it's just because of the clear plastic that they use having less durability than the black shells did?

It snapped two of the pins, and I don't think I was any more or less forceful than with any other Alps board, I might've just gotten intensely unlucky though.

Ah, so yours did blow up.
That's too bad.

The internal electrical contact mechanism of SKBL/SKBM/Matias switches are very different from that of SKCL/SKCM ones. I wonder if the "simplified" mechanism is inherently less strain resistant, or if it comes down to the materials used?

[zrrion]

I suspect part of the cost cutting for the simplified contacts alps/matias did has resulted in reduced reliability as a consequence of getting production costs down, if they plated in something that rusted quickly or did not plate the contacts at all that would lead to reliability issues. SMK and Tai Hao both have better contact designs both in ease of reassembly and in terms of reliability so it's something special matias is/isn't doing. Cherry at least used to advertise their "Goldies" heavily for the very reason that such a thing results in high reliability so my money is on the contacts not being plated properly

[Muirium]

If it lasts through the warranty period, it lasted long enough. Gold plated contacts? Never! Not a tenth of a penny more!

Mind, Matias switches failing within weeks of purchase must have sent a signal back to where it counts: the profit and loss report. That cell for returns was glowing red, surely. “You know, this is beginning to look like a trend.”

Has Matias improved its switch design in recent years? Not anecdotally but materially? Something we can see…?

[NeK]

I would say that the number one issue with ALPS is definitely the inconsistency. There is not a single one ALPS board that I own which isn't almost entirely different in every aspect with the others. From feeling, to smoothness,.to sound and to issues. This means that when someone talks about their ALPS experience, it is actually entirely subjective and thus not relative to yours. and there is no proper reference, that we all have in common as an experience, so that we can be in the same page about them.

Also, it is pretty much about luck of the draw. If someone gets an ALPS board, it may or may not be "good" or in a good condition and there is not much to help in determining that. That is sad thing, in my opinion.

On the other hand, it is clear why Cherry has dominated the entire market. Its considtency is ungodly high. Once you try one board with Blue MX for insrance, you pretty much knowhow all Blue MX boards in existence feel like. They may be some sound variations due to the boards themselves with the different chassis and keycaps, but that's also something that you can control for, knowing that once you put the same keycaps or similar chassis it will be almost identical.

The second biggest issue, for me at least, is their schockingly complexity. I spent almost a year and a half now investigating their mechanism and their design and all I can say is that they are like a beautiful yet very fragile house of cards. There are many very delicate details about each part of the switch that crucial and detrimental to be right. If one of them is just slightly off, by a ridiculous small amount, then the whole switch suddenly becomes from a pleasure to a horrible shit.

The older generation, despite being the best and most pleasurable switches ever made, is the most complex and delicate (SKCM) of them all. And that's saying a lot considering the SKBM, the "newer" is delicate enough to have issues pretty much after some months of use. Issues like the horrible upstroke clicking, getting rougher and rougher at off-centre presses, having issues with not registering or registering just by touching the key.
The older generation, is actually even worse.

Also, they deteriorate even when you are not using them, their plastics get oxidized and get rough and scratchy. In warmer and moist environments are getting even worse, they can reach a point where the plastics have been oxidized so much that they get horrible binding, and if you start using such a bad condition board, without a proper restoration, it will get even worse due to the rough plastics as they get rubbed badly together.

For instance, I am struggling, for months now, to find out what, in God's name, makes a Blue SKCM to start having the horrible upstroke click. It is driving me nuts, because the complexity of the click leaf and how it actually works, is out-of-this-world!

I don't event think the designers had a clear understanding of it either. The physics involved are stupendous. The click leaf material definetely plays a role. Its shape plays a role, its bending angle plays a huge role, the teeth seem to be very important. Their thickness seem to be important etc. etc.

And that's not even considering the most difficult part: their lubrication and how it affects every aspect of the switch. It seems that it affects not only the smoothness but the sound, the binding, the protection from oxidation, the protection from friction and finally it is crucial to suppress the upstroke click.

Everything about those switches are incredibly complicated, no wonder they are so inconsistent and so fragile.

I wish I could understand the details, then I would be able to find some real solution for all that.

Anyway, that was a rant, but despite all of that, I still think that they are the best clicky switches by far. They have the most satisfying click and feel of them all.

Granted, I haven't used those new MX clones with clickbars and or optoelectrics and what not, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

(Wrote this on my mobile, so sorry about the various synactic mistakes and possible incoherence)

[zrrion]

I think you're overblowing the variety of ALPS switches a bit at least. Any 2 AEK boards with the same switches are going to be basically the same apart from condition, if 2 people have 2 different keyboards then we're talking about too many different factors at that point for it to be a good comparison anyway and it would be silly to claim on that basis that alps has a lot of variety in the switch batches.

ALPS specifically decided to stop making keyboard switches since the PC keyboard market didn't have high enough margins for them to bother with anymore. If ALPS had more ruggedness than cherry they still would have stopped making them since ruggedness wasn't related to their decision to stop making them.
MX supremacy in the current market is well known to be mostly that cherry catered to a diverse enough set of markets to weather changes in the PC keyboard market since they had other markets that they were still making money in while other manufacturers where only operating in the PC keyboard market. If reliability was the main factor then ITW/Cortron, who was still making their mag valve switches for a long time and are still making their own foam and foil specifically because they are reliable would be the kings of the keyboard world. MX's ruggedness is unrelated to the business sense it took them to cover the markets that they did.

[NeK]

Well, all of those reasons that you mentioned, are conflated with each other. You can't just separate the unprofitability of ALPS, from their notorious inconsistency. That must have played a role in how much they were valued by those 'other markets', where ruggedness probably was/is a strict requirement (e.g., public keyboards, heavy-duty keyboards among others).
So, that could have very well been a substantial contributing factor in their market demand which ultimately led to the decision to stop making them.
I dare to say, that the manufacturing complexity (high cost) of ALPS, along with their bad ruggedness, was in fact detrimental to their market success. Especially, if you consider the combination of the market flooding of cheap rubber domes at the time and the fact that Cherry, as a competitor, delivered a much more robust and cheaper product (along with the German economy behind backing them up).

I think that you will agree, that Cherry MX, despite everything else, are very reliable, consistent and long lasting, right? That surely had to have played a role somewhere and somehow.

update: Yeah I do overblow their inconsistency, don't take it at face value. It just seems *that* inconsistent when you directly compare them to some tough dogs, like those Buckling Springs and the MXs.

[The Laptop Lagger]

Tbh regardless of the points mentioned in this thread, I think I'll continue to mainline Alps, and I'll even keep an eye out for Matias clicky switches. (I really didn't like the dampened Matias switches however, bottom out feel was too... well... dampened.)

[Bjerrk]

Tbh regardless of the points mentioned in this thread, I think I'll continue to mainline Alps, and I'll even keep an eye out for Matias clicky switches. (I really didn't like the dampened Matias switches however, bottom out feel was too... well... dampened.)

Yeah, I think Matias' clicky switches are pretty worthwhile as well. I agree with you on the damped ones though (not dampened, though - that's never good for switches ).
However, I used the sliders from some Matias Quiet Clicks together with the damping rubber inserts from damped Alps to "refresh" an AEK whose sliders weren't what they used to be. Provided for a nice, smooth typing experience. Not mushy.

[The Laptop Lagger]

Yeah, I think Matias' clicky switches are pretty worthwhile as well. I agree with you on the damped ones though (not dampened, though - that's never good for switches ).
However, I used the sliders from some Matias Quiet Clicks together with the damping rubber inserts from damped Alps to "refresh" an AEK whose sliders weren't what they used to be. Provided for a nice, smooth typing experience. Not mushy.

Whoops on the damped mixup!
I could imagine that using just the sliders on their own would be fine, it's the Matias damping inserts, which differ from Alps, that cause the mushiness afaik. I was potentially gonna de-dampen my Matias board but it kamikazed and I decided I was better off using a Dell AT101W anyway!

[zrrion]

Well, all of those reasons that you mentioned, are conflated with each other. You can't just separate the unprofitability of ALPS, from their notorious inconsistency.

That's just not correct though, ALPS produces a lot of switches for specific uses, and unlike cherry they aren't locked into just making keyboards. ALPS made their keyboard switches specifically to be keyboard switches. All of their other types of switches were made specifically for other environments and they still make a lot of non-keyboard switches to this day. They didn't quit the keyboard game because they were unreliable, they quit because relative to their other products they weren't profitable enough anymore. They very well could have still been profitable, but not in the sort of margins a company as big as ALPS would care about. ALPS isn't and never was a keyboard-only company, they're a components company. Cherry on the other hand is a keyboard-only company. They started as a general components company similar to ALPS but when they got bought the keyboard division was moved to germany and the rest of their component manufacturer was absorbed by Cherry's new parent company. Because they were a keyboard only company they had to diversity into other keyboard related markets uneffected by PC keyboards crashing for them to survive. If they hadn't done that then their parent company would have dissolved them in the same way that ALPS dissolved its own keyboard division.

[timw4mail]

I have had three Alps boards (black, orange, and white) - I don't remember the black binding, but don't own it anymore. I still have the white and orange boards. Neither of them have ever had binding issues. In fact, my Model M's "bind" slightly more on corners.
It's worth noting that I have never tried a dampened switch, so maybe those behave differently. From what I can tell a lot of dampened switches are "bamboo."
Are your switches dirty? And how are your wide caps stabilized? Are the dampened creams the kind with slits or without?
Worst binding I have ever had was with a dirty/worn Fujitsu Peerless (FKB4725).

When I speak of binding, it's mostly one keyboard: the Matias Tactile Pro 4. (And this is mostly on the 1-unit keys) This might be due to the keycaps themselves, as I have another board with the same switches (Matias Tactile Click), a KB Paradise 2021 Final Edition, which doesn't seem to bind up.

Considering there's more wobble to the caps on the Matias board, perhaps that's the real issue, that the wobble is just enough to make the key feel differently weighted based on where it is hit.

[NeK]

I have had three Alps boards (black, orange, and white) - I don't remember the black binding, but don't own it anymore. I still have the white and orange boards. Neither of them have ever had binding issues. In fact, my Model M's "bind" slightly more on corners.
It's worth noting that I have never tried a dampened switch, so maybe those behave differently. From what I can tell a lot of dampened switches are "bamboo."
Are your switches dirty? And how are your wide caps stabilized? Are the dampened creams the kind with slits or without?
Worst binding I have ever had was with a dirty/worn Fujitsu Peerless (FKB4725).

When I speak of binding, it's mostly one keyboard: the Matias Tactile Pro 4. (And this is mostly on the 1-unit keys) This might be due to the keycaps themselves, as I have another board with the same switches (Matias Tactile Click), a KB Paradise 2021 Final Edition, which doesn't seem to bind up.

Considering there's more wobble to the caps on the Matias board, perhaps that's the real issue, that the wobble is just enough to make the key feel differently weighted based on where it is hit.

I have a Matias Pro, the clicky one and I can tell you that they are pretty pretty horrible compared to the real SKCM (older gen) ALPS. They are also bad compared to the newer SKBM ALPS too. They are substantially heavier, their click is very loud, sharp (in a bad way) and pretty pronounced, they sound and feel ugly. Even worse, there is almost 0 consistency between each key, all of them are different in some way (that's bad) and many have gone bad (i.e. bad upstroke clicking, some don't register consistently, some are getting rough etc). I would say a good Cherry MX blues board .... is (much) preferable. That's all in my first hand experience with one and only Matias keyboard that I own, so maybe I'm just unlucky and got a defective one.

[timw4mail]

I have a Matias Pro, the clicky one and I can tell you that they are pretty pretty horrible compared to the real SKCM (older gen) ALPS. They are also bad compared to the newer SKBM ALPS too. They are substantially heavier, their click is very loud, sharp (in a bad way) and pretty pronounced, they sound and feel ugly. Even worse, there is almost 0 consistency between each key, all of them are different in some way (that's bad) and many have gone bad (i.e. bad upstroke clicking, some don't register consistently, some are getting rough etc). I would say a good Cherry MX blues board .... is (much) preferable. That's all in my first hand experience with one and only Matias keyboard that I own, so maybe I'm just unlucky and got a defective one.

The KB Paradise with the clicky Matias switches feels much more consistent than the Matias board, despite using the same switches.

I also found that swapping keys with an AEK made the Matias board feel more consistent. The Matias caps have a flatter key profile as well, compared to the AEK.

I've heard that Matias has reworked their switches to be better in more recent batches, too.

[Notlob]

I have a Matias Pro, the clicky one and I can tell you that they are pretty pretty horrible compared to the real SKCM (older gen) ALPS. They are also bad compared to the newer SKBM ALPS too. They are substantially heavier, their click is very loud, sharp (in a bad way) and pretty pronounced, they sound and feel ugly. Even worse, there is almost 0 consistency between each key, all of them are different in some way (that's bad) and many have gone bad (i.e. bad upstroke clicking, some don't register consistently, some are getting rough etc). I would say a good Cherry MX blues board .... is (much) preferable. That's all in my first hand experience with one and only Matias keyboard that I own, so maybe I'm just unlucky and got a defective one.

This perfectly describes my experience with the same keyboard, with the addition of there always being at least a couple of keys that would miss 80% of the time (the zero key on the numpad and the left arrow key in particular, both seeing regular use for me). It also has issues with binding on off centre keypresses a lot of the time.

I stripped the switches that were causing problems for me and sprayed with some deoxit on the contacts and some wd40 ptfe dry lube, which actually improved the scratchiness a very great deal while barely affecting the sound, if at all. Notwithstanding this, the whole keyboard still felt inconsistent from one key to the next and I got fed up with it. The key weights felt all over the place and with the binding issues I could never really get into a proper flow, and have since swapped it for a keychron k4 with blues which is much nicer (except for the lightweight keycaps feeling a bit cheap) in both feel and sound.

[ed.avis]

Hi, I know this is an old thread, but as we are talking about old keyboards too I would like to add something. I've also found, anecdotally, that ALPS switches do not age well (certainly not compared to buckling springs). A Dell AT101 was unusable after twenty years on a shelf, while most of the time an old Model M will just work.

Sadly, the SMK "Monterey" blue switches appear to suffer from the same weakness. I bought a SIIG MiniTouch with these, like new in its box, and used it daily for less than a year before it started to wear out. Certain keys no longer respond unless you whack the key down with great force. If I pop off the keycap and depress the blue slider manually, it's possible sometimes to depress it without registering a keypress. And I don't think it is because the switches have become grimy and full of dust: I wasn't using the keyboard in a dusty environment, and they still look reasonably clean.

I wondered if there are any common remedies to bring them back to life?

[engr]

I wondered if there are any common remedies to bring them back to life?

You can try the method that sometimes works on dusty Alps: get a Datavac blower or some canned air and blow into the switch through the plunger while pressing and depressing it repeatedly. If that does not work… they are notoriously difficult to disassemble and reassemble, so you may want to look into buying NOS switches and soldering them in if you really like the keyboard.

If you are located in the continental US, you can have my Chicony with those switches for the cost of shipping. Bought it NIB (but smelling of tobacco cause previous owner stored it in his garage where he smoked), found that I don’t really like the switches, and it’s been on my shelf in a box ever since.

[ed.avis]

Thanks, I might try that technique on my Monterey switches, although I don't believe dust is the problem there; they seem to have just worn out through use. I think I junked the Dell AT101 in the end. I'm really a buckling spring guy, but in 2020 was stuck at my parents' house without a keyboard, and I was trying to cheap out.