Alps wax mod - procedure & evaluation!

[Go-Kart]

PXL_20220423_105446641.jpg (2.36 MiB) Viewed 8721 times

O.K., so the first thing to note about this mod is that it doesn't appear to be particularly time consuming/labour intensive. When compared to your typical MX lube job anyway. What does get you is having to dry out the insides of the sliders. On balance, I'd say it is still quicker than standard lubrication methods. But what about the feel!? Well, I have a few NOS Alps on hand, and also left a few of these used Greens stock for comparison (and because it was too challenging to remove the LED associated switches). I can say that the switches do feel the same as the uncleaned/unwaxed Greens. Both the cleaned/waxed and the uncleaned/unwaxed feel somewhat less smooth than the loose NOS Alps I have to hand. However, from past experience with lubing Alps and Topre, I have found lubricated switches can take a week to bed in. I remember this particularly with my BFK. A lot of effort when in to cleaning and lubing that and I was quite underwhelmed when I put it back on my desk; though, after a week of use, it was silky smooth - a large improvement. I have read that the Alps wax mod will take a similar amount of time to settle so I'm not going to pass judgement yet. At the very least, the switches don't feel any worse than they did.

PXL_20220423_103809764.jpg (2.33 MiB) Viewed 8721 times

Oh, and, it's alive!!! My Z-150 is finally ready to do some work. I think I've had this board for about a year and this is the first time I've had the pleasure. I'd try and find out how to turn the beeper off but I'm enjoying it too much. This is my first time with linear Alps, outside of linearised Bamboo Blacks anyway. I like 'em. Nicely weighted, and the slight tactility near the end of the travel entertains even someone tactile gang like myself. I'd be impressed by this board's build quality but I've had an F XT on my desk for some weeks now. It's good-looks however? Absolutely. I do not prefer this board's timbre over the ping of an F like I thought I would though. Fs have thock to go with the ping! I like the layout. Having NUM0 swung out to the left there is particularly comfortable. I never thought I'd appreciate having lock lights until daily driving an F XT. This Z-150 could take prime position over the IBM for that alone if I'm honest.

PXL_20220423_175548035.jpg (2.2 MiB) Viewed 8721 times

So, wax mod, we shall see. Z-150 though? Winner.

Spoiler:

PXL_20220423_162951852.jpg (3.08 MiB) Viewed 8721 times

PXL_20220423_172457582.jpg (2.24 MiB) Viewed 8721 times

PXL_20220423_173211168.jpg (3.1 MiB) Viewed 8721 times

PXL_20220423_173221482.jpg (2.21 MiB) Viewed 8721 times

PXL_20220423_173732533.jpg (1.83 MiB) Viewed 8721 times

PXL_20220423_173822760.jpg (2.8 MiB) Viewed 8721 times

PXL_20220423_175553578.jpg (2.41 MiB) Viewed 8721 times

PXL_20220423_175600251.jpg (2.71 MiB) Viewed 8721 times

PXL_20220423_175615880.jpg (2.24 MiB) Viewed 8721 times

PXL_20220423_175629124.jpg (2.86 MiB) Viewed 8721 times

PXL_20220423_175647065.jpg (2.78 MiB) Viewed 8721 times

[Muirium]

Looking fine! How did you fix the Model F AT inflicted numpad damage? Wasn’t there a broken switch?

[Go-Kart]

Indeed. I wished to try and salvage the bottom housing, along with the switch plate. Unfortunately, those weren't as intact as I thought it was so I just soldered in a whole new switch. Considering there was a few things I wished to do with this board, outside of the time it all took, this has been the most hassle-free work on a vintage keyboard I've done. Hopefully my next project won't sit on my to-do list for so long!

[doomsday_device]

my latest result, from very scratchy to perfectly consistent.

IMG_20220502_175604.jpg (3.73 MiB) Viewed 8524 times

IMG_20220514_200805.jpg (2.97 MiB) Viewed 8524 times

note the really tiny amount, you only want to get a very thin layer.

IMG_20220515_002349.jpg (2.32 MiB) Viewed 8524 times

IMG_20220514_202443.jpg (2.47 MiB) Viewed 8524 times

unkn4own.jpg (1.8 MiB) Viewed 8524 times

some small shavings between slider and top housings are normal, you can brush them off or vacuum if you fear they might get in the way.

typing sound here: https://voca.ro/1bUtwElsHbXB

[Go-Kart]

Sounds great.

[doomsday_device]

Sounds great.

it really does, is instantly in my top 5 of best sounding boards i have

[Shorle]

Did you also shake the sliders in a closed jar with the hot water and paraffin or just stir?
Your end result sounds great, gj!

[kelvinhall05]

Did you also shake the sliders in a closed jar with the hot water and paraffin or just stir?
Your end result sounds great, gj!

I've always just stirred them in a mug with no issues.

[jsheradin]

I'm by no means a chemist but I remember learning about the cure profiles of friction materials and how it effected the formation of various surface molecules. They all behave differently, some tougher, some smoother, etc. It's a balance to get them correct for the application.

Spoiler:

Chemical-structures-of-stearic-acid-oleic-acid-and-ricinoleic-acid-The-kink-in-the.png (11.32 KiB) Viewed 8318 times

I don't think there's any chemical reactions happening here that are comparable but I'd be curious how much the application method depends on temp, etc.

Is boiling the same as just physically rubbing wax onto the surface? Is there some molecular binding going on at high temp with highly diluted wax? Someone smarter than me probably knows.

[kelvinhall05]

I'm by no means a chemist but I remember learning about the cure profiles of friction materials and how it effected the formation of various surface molecules. They all behave differently, some tougher, some smoother, etc. It's a balance to get them correct for the application.

Spoiler:

Chemical-structures-of-stearic-acid-oleic-acid-and-ricinoleic-acid-The-kink-in-the.png

I don't think there's any chemical reactions happening here that are comparable but I'd be curious how much the application method depends on temp, etc.

Is boiling the same as just physically rubbing wax onto the surface? Is there some molecular binding going on at high temp with highly diluted wax? Someone smarter than me probably knows.

I think the main reason for boiling is it takes the same amount of time to wax as many switches as you want as it does to rub wax onto just one slider

[doomsday_device]

Did you also shake the sliders in a closed jar with the hot water and paraffin or just stir?
Your end result sounds great, gj!

sorry for the late response - i just pour boiling water over that bowl (as pictured), stirr for some time (maybe 30 seconds), stirr while draining, put sliders on paper towel, seperate them quickly and then change paper towel for a dry one again. the whole procedure takes like 1-2 minutes

never boiled them actively, dont think it makes a huge difference

i also ultrasonic and boil all plastics without wax atleast one time before that.

[hellothere]

So, I tried the wax mod last night, following the instructions from Kuritakey. (waning: turn your volume down) and using the "block of wax" mentioned in Jezzuz's video. I wanted to get the Sasol 5203 wax, which appears to be the most recommended one, but I can't find a US distributor.

I did make a couple changes.

Process:
* I ultrasoniced the top housings and sliders (separately) using 50C to 60C water and fizzy denture cleaner tablets. Jezzus's video just uses warm soapy water. I think cleaning is kind of an obvious step, anyway.
* Heat a pot of water to a rolling boil. Toss in top housings and sliders (separately). Boil for 2 min. Drain. I used maybe 5-6 cups of water. The 2 min number is just so I can be consistent in what I'm doing. The above videos don't mention an exact time.
* I then heated a completely separate Pyrex graduated container to 4 cups and boiled. After boiling went down, I put 20 or so sliders in a nylon sieve, dunked them in water, then put in about 1/2 teaspoon (like, a real spoon, not a measuring spoon) of wax. Not a chunk, but shaved.
* Stirred until wax was melted.
* Let sliders sit for 2 minutes, stirring occasionally.
* Pulled out the sieve and put the sliders out to dry.

I did 300ish. Blues from a Leading Edge DC-2014, 102 random blues I'm going to put in a OmniKey chassis, and 101 from an old logo Dell with salmons. I reassembled three switches from each and I also have a handful of blues that were lubed with the ceramic wax lube I've been using.

Verdict:
All the blues felt good and sounded almost the same. That includes the ones I had lubed with the ceramic wax lube. The salmons had issues: all became upstroke-clicky and one almost sounded white Alps clicky. Rubbing the wax off on the tactile leaf side didn't help. I don't have any other salmon Alps keyboards, ATM, so I can't compare. The switches felt OK, though, and considering how nicely my last orange Alps keyboard came out, I'm going to do paper mods on any tactile Alps switches I get.

I'm fairly happy with a couple things:
* I've had and have a lot of blue Alps switches. I think this method will reduce my cleaning and lubing time. Everyone wants more time.
* It's nice to know that I can't melt pine Alps switches in boiling water.

I still haven't seen any info -- and this might just me not looking hard enough -- on if just cleaning and boiling sliders and top housings produce the same effect. Hey, just trying to make it scientific.

[hellothere]

I do have a question: anyone know if boiling hurts cream/white damped switches?

[Muirium]

Good question. Can the dampers be removed and reinstalled after cleaning? I forget.



Good news: the wiki says yes. “Removable,” specifically, but they were installed once on manufacture so they should be doable a second time, if a bit of work.

[headphone_jack]

I think some people have tried waxing (to fill the scratches in the slider) and then a thin lube on top to increase smoothness from the housing. Not been much word on that though, just stuff I've heard around. Could be worth looking into if the wax turned out less smooth than you thought.

[zrrion]

I have used a wax+wet lube approach and it works very well. I wasn't using light lube either but rather a decent amount of dielectric grease which seems to work fine in the 2 boards I've used it on so far. I have some gat yellows I waxboiled for the hell of it that I used krytox on but since those aren't really comparable to alps I can't say how the 2 lubes stack up, maybe I'll lube some blue alps w/ krytox whenever I get around to restoring some and see how it goes

[hellothere]

Good question. Can the dampers be removed and reinstalled after cleaning? I forget.

Good news: the wiki says yes. “Removable,” specifically, but they were installed once on manufacture so they should be doable a second time, if a bit of work.

Thanks. I've mentioned I'm very fond of cream damped.

I think some people have tried waxing (to fill the scratches in the slider) and then a thin lube on top to increase smoothness from the housing. Not been much word on that though, just stuff I've heard around. Could be worth looking into if the wax turned out less smooth than you thought.

Two things on that.

First, if you look at Alps switches that had the factory lube, it was only around the spring "pip" on the "fat" part of the slider. While reassembling the 200ish blues that I waxed, on the ones that didn't click, I scraped off the lube only on the "thin" part of the slider
facing the click leaf. This always made the switch more clicky. Scraping the rest of the wax off didn't make a difference.

Second, I'm still thinking about the top housing and slider rails. I think I need to do some more testing to see if lubing the front, fat part of the slider and the top housing rails makes things better.

I do want to mention that I did not get the, "It went from a 5/10 to a 10/10!" change that some other folks have reported. My random blues were about a 7 before fiddling with them and they're now about an 8. I've got to play a bit more with the switches on the Leading Edge, because their clicky is still below par.

@zrrion, I've got a linearized black Alps that was lubed with Krytox. It's the best feeling black Alps I've tried.

[the_ambyguous]

I kinda like ping, myself.

the alps ping isnt for everyone, its like finely aged barrel whiskey. some people prefer wine, others dont drink at all. i lubed an AEKII with white switches using PTFE in 2016 once, didnt like the way it almost distorted the feel and sound of the switch. ever since ive adopted a purist alps stance. also because the thought of disassembling a board AND desoldering it AND THEN modifying it just seems so incredibly lugubrious to me. if it fails the type test when i initially procure the board, it goes in the "not keeping" pile.

They’re still Alps, though. They age as gracefully as dairy. In time they’ll all need this.

some of us like a well fermented cheese. also i disagree, unless youre taking your boards to the beach and burying them underneath the sand, i think with proper care they age quite gracefully.

yeah, lubing springs is for weenies who don't like ping (or work in an office with weenies) ping is good, it's like your keyboard is singing to you.

PING SUPREMACY!!

[hellothere]

I kinda like ping, myself.

also because the thought of disassembling a board AND desoldering it AND THEN modifying it just seems so incredibly lugubrious to me. if it fails the type test when i initially procure the board, it goes in the "not keeping" pile.

I can understand that. Again, my hobby is just repairing these things. My side quest is to find the best keyboard for me.

[hellothere]

Here's another result.

* Apple Extended Keyboard. Orange Alps. Ultrasoniced top housing and sliders. Boiled top housings. Used ceramic wax lube on upper housing. Paper mod. Absolutely fantastic.
* Apple Extended Keyboard II. Cream damped Alps. Ultrasoniced top housing and sliders. Boiled top housings. Used ceramic wax lube on upper housing. Paper mod. Absolutely fantastic.
* Dell AT101 old-logo. Salmon (pink) Alps. Ultrasoniced top housing and sliders. Full wax/boil mod. Paper mod. Absolutely fantastic.

I've completed reassembling my Leading Edge (blue Alps) and it's really nice.

And another verdict: if you're talking tactile Alps, do a paper mod. May as well do wax/boil. Doesn't take that long to do, if you have the keyboard apart, anyway.

[Bjerrk]

I reassembled three switches from each and I also have a handful of blues that were lubed with the ceramic wax lube I've been using.

Just ordered one (inspired by your post), will report back.

[wufishy]

So, I just tried the wax mod out and got mixed results. While it was awesome for my salmon alps it wasn't quite as good for my orange alps, does anyone have similar experiences? I tend to find, across a few boards that all looked very clean, that orange alps top housing is more prone to scratches and I'm wondering if they could be made of different materials.

Also, has anyone tried to mix PTFE powder with their wax? It's a common practice for bicycle chains; if no one has tried I'll order some and try them out.

Any bit of info is helpful! On the upside, these salmons I'm typing on are hella smooth!

[zrrion]

I've tried mixing in PTFE powder but I don't know if my mixture had the correct ratios for it to matter much. I think using bike chain wax with PTFE already in it would be the way to go.

As far as mixed results, I've found that on overwaxed parts there's a break in period for them after which they wear smooth and are good, it's possible that your oranges simply need to be broken in but you got the wax perfect on the salmons? Another thing you can try is to wet lube them as well. I've some salmons that I waxed and wet lubed and they're fantastic, same with the double leaf dampened creams I have.

[TNT]

As far as mixed results, I've found that on overwaxed parts there's a break in period for them after which they wear smooth and are good, it's possible that your oranges simply need to be broken [...]

Interesting, I also had that break in period with my stock SKCL Green

[headphone_jack]

my SKCM oranges had some break in time, no more than an hour or so though.

reading through the older parts of this thread is quite hilarious, I suggest others do it some time. Brings me back to a time when the forum was at least slightly active, if not massively circlejerky

[engr]

Sorry, but I had to...