Alps Lubricant FOUND!

[NeK]

You are right, not very useful. Doesn't even say what type of thickener it uses, is it lithium? Is it Silica? We can only guess.

On another note, I checked out the TDS of NyoGel 767A and it turns out is NLGI 2 and not 3 as I thought and also N. 774H which is viscous but not as much as the 767A, it is NLGI 3. So, NLGI is not what makes the difference.

[dr-lipschitz]

Have we tried nyogel 774VL? data sheet here: https://shop.newgatesimms.com/wp-conten ... _774VL.pdf

40c viscosity is 903 cSt, specific gravity is 0.86 g/cm^3. so the viscosity in mPa-s is:
903 * .86 =~ 777

[NeK]

The 774 series are all the same except of their viscosity. I tried 774H (Heavy) and 774 (normal) and they don't work. 774VL (Very Light) is even less viscous, therefore it will certainly be even worse.

[andresteare]

Been out for a while, is the wax mod still the current "works fine" solution, or any new method with repeated good results?

[Muirium]

The screaming stopped, so I guess solid, informed, objective and reasonable consensus was achieved after all.

Whoever defines it first: wins!

[kelvinhall05]

Been out for a while, is the wax mod still the current "works fine" solution, or any new method with repeated good results?

boilwax has always been and will continue to be the best way to restore alps to nos condition. nek continues to wish for something else presumably cause he can't easily sell candles and hot water lol

[zrrion]

I've had success using a tealight candle I found in the misc trash/debris on the side of the street in philly if that's any sort of endorsement. unless you get the amount of wax perfect though it does require break in for the extra wax to be rubbed off before it gets really good though. I suspect any issues folks are having with the process that isn't caused by using the wrong wax is caused by not breaking them in. Hell, it's possible other waxes work but aren't being put through their paces first. Hard to tell when there aren't too many threads specifically discussing this sort of thing honestly

[NeK]

Been out for a while, is the wax mod still the current "works fine" solution, or any new method with repeated good results?

boilwax has always been and will continue to be the best way to restore alps to nos condition. nek continues to wish for something else presumably cause he can't easily sell candles and hot water lol

Kelvihal is delusional, uninformed and full of it. Wouldn't recognize NOS even if it hit him in the head, several times too. The only way, to even approach NOS, is actual cleaning, polishing the surfaces and applying a proper grease with particular characteristics at the chemical/molecular level.

Anything less is just, Uncle Bob's WD40-and-duct-tape-fix.

PS. Wtf was that about "couldn't sell"? Dude, if I was going to sell anything to anyone, it surely wouldn't be for a niche market of 50 people worldwide, especially when not even them give a rat's ass about quality.

[NeK]

I've had success using a tealight candle I found in the misc trash/debris on the side of the street in philly if that's any sort of endorsement. unless you get the amount of wax perfect though it does require break in for the extra wax to be rubbed off before it gets really good though. I suspect any issues folks are having with the process that isn't caused by using the wrong wax is caused by not breaking them in. Hell, it's possible other waxes work but aren't being put through their paces first. Hard to tell when there aren't too many threads specifically discussing this sort of thing honestly

It is the wrong wax mostly. It boils down to this: If you find, by sheer luck, a candle that has more or less the right hydrocarbons, it will have positive effects*.

* It won't magically restore keys to NOS condition, because switch contacts need to be polished and all its parts be in good shape, as well.

[kelvinhall05]

Been out for a while, is the wax mod still the current "works fine" solution, or any new method with repeated good results?

boilwax has always been and will continue to be the best way to restore alps to nos condition. nek continues to wish for something else presumably cause he can't easily sell candles and hot water lol

Kelvihal is delusional, uninformed and full of it. Wouldn't recognize NOS even if it hit him in the head, several times too. The only way, to even approach NOS, is actual cleaning, polishing the surfaces and applying a proper grease with particular characteristics at the chemical/molecular level.

Anything less is just, Uncle Bob's WD40-and-duct-tape-fix.

PS. Wtf was that about "couldn't sell"? Dude, if I was going to sell anything to anyone, it surely wouldn't be for a niche market of 50 people worldwide, especially when not even them give a rat's ass about quality.

mfw nek knows my experience (and everyone else's, for that matter) more than I do

cope lol, waxboil works great. who cares if candle wax is chemically equivalent to the original stuff. if it feels equivalent to a nos switch, it feels equivalent to a nos switch...

[BigBlambino]

Just wanted to put this out there in case anyone finds it helpful, but I wax boiled some alps.tw Type OA2 clones in a pretty crummy condition Datacomp DFK191 that I got off eBay with great results. Compared side by side with an NOS FK7000 I have with bamboo white Alps, I would say the switches are just as smooth if not smoother. I did the wax and stems shaken in a mason jar technique. Been using the board semi-frequently for about 4 months and haven't experienced any degradation in smoothness.

[snacksthecat]

I bought a Datacomp DFK777 on ebay and am waiting to get it in the mail. It looked fine from the photos but the listing says it "needs cleaned" so I'm expecting it to be at least less than pristine. Old me would assume that deep cleaning all of the switches and wax mod lubing them would get the best result because: more stuff = better. But I recently watched Chryros' series of videos about restoring Alps switches and it made re-think the whole thing. Is there some point on the spectrum of keyboard filthiness where it makes more sense to "soft clean" the switches and beyond that threshold it makes more sense to deep clean / re-lube?

Assuming the keyboard arrives and the switches are in 7/10 condition, any advice on which direction to go?

[darkcruix]

I bought a Datacomp DFK777 on ebay and am waiting to get it in the mail. It looked fine from the photos but the listing says it "needs cleaned" so I'm expecting it to be at least less than pristine. Old me would assume that deep cleaning all of the switches and wax mod lubing them would get the best result because: more stuff = better. But I recently watched Chryros' series of videos about restoring Alps switches and it made re-think the whole thing. Is there some point on the spectrum of keyboard filthiness where it makes more sense to "soft clean" the switches and beyond that threshold it makes more sense to deep clean / re-lube?

Assuming the keyboard arrives and the switches are in 7/10 condition, any advice on which direction to go?

Soft-Cleaning without De-soldering is in most cases good enough. If the keys are binding badly or are scratchy (press the key slowly down and listen, you can literally hear the dust particles), then clean them as described. Assemble two or three switches after cleaning and test again.
I'd re-lube them if the binding/scratchiness is not going away. But you can do this with the switch still soldered in.

[hellothere]

I know this is at least me and one other person, but if the switch mounting plate is rusty, that's generally my signal to de-solder switches, then sand and paint the plate. I know there are some folks out there that don't care about rust or would only do this if the keyboard is 51% rusted. Otherwise, I could go with the feel/listen test, as darkcruix says. If it feels good, why bother doing anything? Otherwise, I do like cleaning the top housing and slider in the switch (ultrasonic then boil), then do the boil/wax thing with the sliders.

[snacksthecat]

Thanks for the advice, guys. Like I mentioned before, I usually go full bore with things right off the bat and it has not worked out well for me in the past. Definitely going to take a more metered approach this time and start with some soft cleaning of a few switches and judge how well it's working before getting too invasive.

One point that Chryros made that stuck with me is that keeping the original components together from switch to switch is a good idea since those parts have been paired up that way for so many years. I'm hoping that doing that will help keep the feel of things consistent across the board. This is obviously much easier to do by cleaning one switch at a time.

Now while I wait for the keyboard to arrive I'll educate myself on this newfangled wax mod trend so that I have a solid plan B to try if it's in bad shape.

[hellothere]

One point that Chryros made that stuck with me is that keeping the original components together from switch to switch is a good idea since those parts have been paired up that way for so many years. I'm hoping that doing that will help keep the feel of things consistent across the board. This is obviously much easier to do by cleaning one switch at a time.

I respect the reasoning that Chyros used in his video. You could also add lube, like the kind I used to use, to either the slider (the notched side) or top housing slider rails. Or both. You'd just have to do it switch by switch.

However, if you're going to take apart the switches to do a more "hard" clean, like using an ultrasonic bath or if you're going to do the wax/boil mod, you'll end up with hundreds of parts. It's a little difficult to keep all those together.

[Yasu0]

I was hesitant to bump this old 2020 thread because it took much longer than what I stated it would, but a small batch of 2583 is now available. If this is still something anyone is interested in let me know. I have kind of lost interest in alps all together myself. If any demand remains from others maybe he can divvy up his 1000 gram sample for ebay. Let me know what size/price might work and I can ask if he will finally put some up there.

* TB2581P was the original lube used for alps switches.
* TB2581P no longer manufactured, TB employee indicated TB2583G is most compatible
* TB2583G cannot be found anywhere, until someone can source it
* Poster asked Nye Lubricants which would be closest to TB2583G. Employee/rep indicated Nyogel 760G is most similar (specs found here on page 75 https://threebond.com/wp-content/upload ... -LOCAL.pdf)
* Another poster indicated Shin Etsu G-501 could be similar to TB2583G, but unable to find conclusive evidence, unless I'm missing something here. G-501 is also used as a 'sound dampener.' TB 2500 series lube "reduces contact resistance, thereby preventing noise and abrasion from sliding (scratching?), and has a cleaning effect that can remove adsorbates and wear debris attached to the contact surfaces'
* Until someone sources a complete data sheet for the TB2581P, we will never know the exact formula for the original alps switch lube. Maybe it is a trade secret after all, as even the TB2583G is lacking technical information.

[Muirium]

I'd like some. All Alps-preservationists (which is to say all Alps owners!) should get themselves some of the stuff.

[thefarside]

I’d also like some. Couldn’t hurt to see if it helps.

[kshopper2084]

I have kind of lost interest in alps all together myself. If any demand remains from others maybe he can divvy up his 1000 gram sample for ebay. Let me know what size/price might work and I can ask if he will finally put some up there.

It would be a shame to go through all this effort and not take the final step of distributing the lube to those that want it.

May I ask why you have lost interest in ALPS switches? Are you feeling okay?

[engr]

I would like some as well. Without knowing the price, I am not sure how much I can buy though.

[Yasu0]

What is a good container size? 30 grams each?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/234763333584
Does a price match with the above price work? $34?

[Muirium]

30g sounds good, as it's always annoying to have to buy too much of something; as you'll know from your full KILO of the stuff. But the price is a bit teeth-baring. 1000 ÷ 30 = 33.3333 × $34 = $1133.33 of lube you think you've got there?

Priced right, all 30 or so portions of the stuff seems quite likely to sell.

[Yasu0]

Yes I see your point. Each 30g for $19 plus mail sound more reasonable? First class mail should make it come to about $25 shipped. I think a favor was called in for this jar, so its not likely to be available again. Usually he would need to order a much larger quantity to get something made.

[genericusername57]

I'd be interested as well only for the hell of it, if you need more volunteers. I'm in europe though so I'm guessing that might complicate shipping a bit.

[tyrantcyan]

I am also interested.

[thefarside]

I think $25 shipped is a good price.

[yLothar]

No longer available?

[Lalaland124]

I’m also interested:-)

[JP!]

After much trial and error, I believe I have found the best solution for restoring Alps switches. Normally I would feed you guys some BS and recommend switching to buckling springs

Without much further ado, here is the next best thing short of a time machine:

Spoiler:

Think of this like a wax boil but better. It's delicious, nutritious, organic, aromatic, sustainable, grass-fed, free range, cruelty free, ethically sourced, grown in season, fare wage, farm to town, barn to ladle, blessed by angels and cursed by demons. Now with free shipping!

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