Eclipse F62 - technique for replacing spring

[ed.avis]

I have a New Model F in 62-key layout. When I received it a few keys didn't work reliably or chattered but I have mostly resolved these issues. In one case I removed the existing spring and put in a new one (I have a few spare springs and flippers). I used the technique from the video where you twist anticlockwise slightly to remove, and then twist clockwise and push to fix the new spring onto its nubbin. I did that for the right Shift key, which I think is now working a little better than it did.

But while doing that I had popped off the next-door key, the Fn, and on reattaching the keycap found it no longer registered keypresses. After a few attempts to reseat it I decided to change the spring there too. I removed the old one, and took a brand new one from the spares, but now I find I am unable to seat the new spring in place. I think I've got it onto the nubbin, and press it down, but on attaching the keycap the key doesn't click, and when I remove the keycap the spring comes off too, so it was never securely attached.

It's one of those times where you think you know how to do something, but you start doing it wrong, and the more you keep trying the more wrong it gets. So I've stopped for the moment and will ask for suggestions before proceeding.

I've not found the ideal tool for this spring installation. I have several different kinds of tweezers, but all pretty cheap and basic, as well as a wire keypuller, a small Allen key which I sometimes use for pressing down the spring, and a magnetic screwdriver to retrieve the spring if it falls inside. I find the tweezers (or my hands) too clumsy for the delicate task of fitting the spring onto its nubbin. What's the right tool to use?

I could open up the board and change the flipper as well as the spring, but I'm reluctant to keep going as I may keep making things worse.

[nihilist000]

I recently re-attached a spring to an F77 flipper while it was still in the barrel. I wasn't able to get it on using a pair of angled tweezers, but when I switched to a different pair of tweezers for which the two sides only meet at the tip (the sort used for plucking eyebrows), the spring went straight on. Therefore I'd suggest you try a few different pairs of tweezers.

The Brand New Model F assemblies are designed to be opened, but it's certainly worth persevering with re-attaching the spring from the outside first. I've opened mine up and it went fine. However, it's no minor undertaking and you need to remove all the keycaps (including the spacebar) first.

[wobbled]

What do you do when you buy a product that doesn’t work? Send it back for a replacement or a refund, these are a lot of money for it to arrive fucked…

[genericusername57]

What do you do when you buy a product that doesn’t work? Send it back for a replacement or a refund, these are a lot of money for it to arrive fucked…

I mean, it's stated it might be a possibility before you order it so just don't order one if you don't want to risk having to reattach a spring by yourself.

To answer the question I've used both angled and flat tweezers for it, but I bent the flat one a little bit to grip the spring mostly at the bottom. Then it's just a matter of using the right pressure when applying it back so you can slide the tweezers along the spring as you press it down. I find it helps to do it both having the tweezers horizontally and vertically and do it a few times each. Ideally you want the spring to rest on the barrel when you have the keyboard vertically with the spacebar up. Also make sure to check where the spring ends, you want that bit "north" when looking at the keyboard normally.

Having the keyboard vertical when attaching a key is critical, by the way, so if you're not doing that then it's likely to be the issue.

If a spring doesn't work well you can try flipping it upside down or just swapping it with another one from a different key.

[Ellipse]

Yes this is all great advice. I recommend keeping the keyboard vertical, space bar end up when installing the spring just as with installing the keys, so that the spring is resting at the bottom of the barrel when it is installed.

The best tweezers are those that have a beveled/angled edge but a few centimeters at the end being flat, and possibly serrated. My pair of tweezers is old and I can't find it for sale but if anyone has links to recommendations please share them.

Also be sure to install the spring at the 12 o'clock position, which means the spring end would be at the bottom when the keyboard is vertically as noted above. If you install it spring end up the key will not reliably buckle.

Some other methods of spring installation are mentioned on the forums as well as in the manual, such as the chopstick/toothpick method (breaking off one end so that the end is flat), or using a small eyeglass screwdriver whose diameter matches the spring's inner diameter and the overall length of the remaining cylinder is shorter than the length of the compressed spring (I have such a tool where I have cut off the edge so it is flat and not beveled).

It definitely takes some practice to install the springs correctly but this is probably the most valuable lesson to learn if you want to maintain a Model F keyboard, whether IBM or the new ones. The springs do bounce around in shipping and sometimes move slightly out of the approved position as installed by the factory, so that is why it's mentioned that it is to be expected that you have to reinstall some of the springs.

There could be an issue with the flipper getting stuck, which is why the manual notes to confirm that the flipper has free movement. If all else fails you may want to replace the flipper and spring entirely but that does involve spending 10 to 20 minutes to take off all the keys and open up the board. Even I have to do this occasionally to fix a persistent issue.

Here are some possibilities - not sure if they are good:
https://www.techni-tool.com/category/Ha ... 2797-18484
https://www.techni-tool.com/product/445-193-18485
https://www.techni-tool.com/category/Ha ... -910-18489
https://www.techni-tool.com/category/Ha ... 4-10063004
https://www.techni-tool.com/category/Ha ... 5-10063005
https://www.amazon.com/Stainless-Tweeze ... 00EKQ7FZI/

My own tweezers used for reinstalling springs:

[fohat]

I have not done this, but has the old "chopstick" method been deprecated?

[rezenew]

I use toothpicks inserted into the center of the spring and it has always worked pretty well.

Another (albeit somewhat unfeasable) technique that I found massively improved the feel / consistency was replacing the springs, 90% of the key caps, and flippers with components from my XT. I think the new springs aren't as high quality, same with the keycaps. There was this like crunchy feeling + binding on many keys. I also constantly was toying with the springs getting them to register properly. After using the original components it all went away and felt to the quality I was used to on my XT.

[ed.avis]

Thanks all for your advice. I have managed in the end to replace the spring and reattach the Fn key. One thing I got wrong initially was whether to twist or screw the spring into place, or just press it. The manual says that remove a spring you should turn it gently to "unscrew" it, not just pull it. I thought that maybe the opposite would apply when attaching a spring -- but that's not so, you just press down without turning.

Another thing the manual could clarify is whether the springs are symmetrical. Should it matter which way up you install them? It looked like there might be a 'heavy' end to the spring which should be the one touching the flipper, but I could have been imagining that.

In this case, I'll never know whether replacing the spring was even needed. I had removed the Fn key cap to make life easier when doing some work on the next-door Shift, thinking that I could easily reattach it afterwards. Somehow the key didn't click after I put back the key cap. Maybe I could have made it work in some other way.

[AndyJ]

> didn't click

I've had that happen before. Sometimes just removing and replacing it a few times will fix it.

Ideally, the spring should be near the center of the barrel. Most springs have a bit of a bend, though. It can help if you tilt the keyboard so the weight of the spring droops the end closer to the center of the barrel when pushing the key back on.

[ed.avis]

Yes, I always attach the key with the keyboard vertical, space bar uppermost. That wasn't enough to get it well attached and clicking, if the spring wasn't firmly attached to the flipper. Once I worked out how to push the spring down hard onto its nubbin (without damaging the spring, as I had in earlier attempts) the key clicks properly.