Indeed. I don't have a spare housing for an SKCM Blue Alps switch, but I have a few SKCM White (Pine) Alps swtiches, and they have the asymmetry that you described. I tried out one of these along with the spring, slider, and click leaf in a SKCM Brown switch in my 60% keyboard, and this seems to be close to what I am hoping to achieve with the mod.XMIT wrote: ↑SKCM Blue top housings are decidedly *not* symmetrical. Looking into them, the side with one "line" corresponds to the notch in the slider and to the switch plate, and the side with two "lines" corresponds to the flat side of the slider with no notch, and the click leaf.
Old post, but still: He’s doing it wrong. I put little O-rings around the bottom ends of some Alps’ springs. That makes a difference, even though the modified switches are still not exactly silent. I never opended all switches to clean them. Maybe I will soon, I can take pictures and maybe even record the typing sound.seaworthy wrote: ↑Guy in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wlgvgu3Jnc says he's putting o-rings on his Matias clicky switches...
Anyone done this? Sure, I've seen dampeners on the side of the sliders but never an o-ring--where would an o-ring go on an Alps-style slider?
I've done this in the past. I used small needle-nose pliers to stretch the O-ring and slip it over the slider. It doesn't work if you try to do this Cherry-style by putting the O-ring on the keycap stem. This procedure sort of works. I did not like the feel at all and started using it only to deaden the spacebar. Later, I abandoned this altogether. What I now do for the spacebar is replace the slider with one from a Matias Quiet switch and put thin polyurethane foam on the top plate where the spacebar stabilizer inserts hit the plate. This revised procedure works nicely. I do not recommend trying to put O-rings on Alps switches -- they mess up the feel and they tend to get out of position with use.stracciatiera wrote: ↑Old post, but still: He’s doing it wrong. I put little O-rings around the bottom ends of some Alps’ springs. That makes a difference, even though the modified switches are still not exactly silent. I never opended all switches to clean them. Maybe I will soon, I can take pictures and maybe even record the typing sound.seaworthy wrote: ↑Guy in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wlgvgu3Jnc says he's putting o-rings on his Matias clicky switches...
Anyone done this? Sure, I've seen dampeners on the side of the sliders but never an o-ring--where would an o-ring go on an Alps-style slider?
I thought it was to stop the switchplate moving around when the switch isn't soldered in. Seems weird to me that they would do it to prevent solder finding its way in. That seems almost impossible.Daniel Beardsmore wrote: ↑The bigger question is what this stuff is even for. The only suggestions so far is that it's to permit wave soldering, to stop the solder getting inside the switch. I did notice that my single green Alps switch does have an enclosed area around the terminals just as yours does, instead of one that's open at the back, and indeed it came from a Zenith keyboard.
There is clearly a reason why the non-LED version lacks the holes in the base for the LED legs. Alps went out of their way to tool up two different bases, and seeing the terminal sealant in your green switch seems to fit in with this somewhere, even though the chances of solder getting inside the switchplate seems fairly slim. Mine is the non-LED version, but it would still accept sealant.
Sealant isn't even consistent — some SMK J-M0404 switches have it, and others don't, ditto SKCC. The SMK switches don't have any special recess: it just seems to be poured through the holes and allowed to fill the gaps between the shell and legs. RAFI RS 74 M has one type with large holes for the legs, and another type with circular rings around the holes that can be filled with this hard material.
Chyros's Alps bloke might know more about this. RAFI aren't very talkative and SMK don't even remember making keyboard switches.
I know they did use a machined soldering process, so it'll have been pre-applied solder on the switch points and then oven-bake them. It makes perfect sense that it's to prevent solder leaking in. I'm not sure the lack of holes in non-LED switches is for the same reason though, because there shouldn't be any solder poinits under them if there's no LED, right?Daniel Beardsmore wrote: ↑Chyros's Alps bloke might know more about this. RAFI aren't very talkative and SMK don't even remember making keyboard switches.
In the process of desoldering a green SKCC junk board right now and noticed this, so I thought of checking this thread.Lo and behold...Chyros wrote: ↑I know they did use a machined soldering process, so it'll have been pre-applied solder on the switch points and then oven-bake them. It makes perfect sense that it's to prevent solder leaking in. I'm not sure the lack of holes in non-LED switches is for the same reason though, because there shouldn't be any solder poinits under them if there's no LED, right?Daniel Beardsmore wrote: ↑Chyros's Alps bloke might know more about this. RAFI aren't very talkative and SMK don't even remember making keyboard switches.
I wouldn't be surprised if they did the manufacture of LED switches completely separate from non-LED ones. They might modify the mould, or even retrofit the holes to the housing after casting. There are clues that suggest they made them separately, for example the well-known occurrence of SKCL Green LED switches in SKCL Yellow boards - it would've been perfectly possible to fit SKCL Yellows with LEDs instead, but likely they simply still had stock of the green version and emptied that before. Alan mentioned that they used an (Alps-made, interestingly) sorting machine that would sort the switches and insert them into the keyboard accordingly.
What I did is this:Hypersphere wrote: ↑I've done this in the past. I used small needle-nose pliers to stretch the O-ring and slip it over the slider. It doesn't work if you try to do this Cherry-style by putting the O-ring on the keycap stem. This procedure sort of works. I did not like the feel at all and started using it only to deaden the spacebar. Later, I abandoned this altogether. What I now do for the spacebar is replace the slider with one from a Matias Quiet switch and put thin polyurethane foam on the top plate where the spacebar stabilizer inserts hit the plate. This revised procedure works nicely. I do not recommend trying to put O-rings on Alps switches -- they mess up the feel and they tend to get out of position with use.
That’s interesting. I recently got a Focus with SKCM white. The upper shell looks like that of the archetypal whites (like this), but the springs are silver, I’d say. I don’t know yet what model the Focus is. There’s a badge with an »3001« on it, an IC labeled »Focus FK-5002« inside it, it doesn’t have a calculator, but eight arrow keys, a turbo key, a macro key, an asterisk key where a windows key would be on newer boards and a backslash key right of the right shift key (and a BA enter key).keycap wrote: ↑What exactly makes Blue Alps feel better than White Alps? I don't think that a switch-plate can change that much in terms of feel, but maybe I'm wrong.
I've noticed a significant difference between two of my White Alps keyboards. One of them is from ~1989, and the other one is probably from 1992/1993. The 1989 keyboard's White Alps feel much different and they definitely used dry lubricant at some point because there is grey residue on the slider. However, the newer one has a bit more of a rough key-feel and the dry lubricant is not present (this is probably when they switched to POM for the sliders, right?). I have also noticed that there is a different spring in the older one, which definitely resembles the type of spring used in Blue Alps. It looks like it has a gold-tone opposed to the silver-tone spring in the newer White Alps.
So, what I'm trying to ask is, are the very early White Alps comparable to Blue Alps? Here's the difference between my older and newer White Alps sliders/springs:
