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Lubing IBM Model F/M Springs
Posted: 12 Nov 2015, 07:24
by ohaimark
Do any of you have experience with light lube (not grease) on the buckling springs of your IBM keyboards?
I chose to lube my Model F 5150's springs with the lighter formulation of FaderLube, applied with a paintbrush, when I took it apart for cleaning. My intent was not to change the press feel, but to prevent rust.
I really like what it did to the feel. For the lack of a better word... It feels less "twangy." It is a touch more "pingy" and more vibrations might be transferred to one's fingertips when typing. I can't say for sure because I don't have a control switch or board for comparison.
Posted: 12 Nov 2015, 14:45
by fohat
I have considered something like this, but was afraid that some of it would eventually trickle down and upset the capacitance somehow.
I would love to see a long-term report.
Posted: 12 Nov 2015, 14:48
by andrewjoy
I have used some standard WD40 spray type oil on a few springs that where showing corrosion and wiped it off after, i did not noticed any difference.
Posted: 12 Nov 2015, 16:10
by ohaimark
fohat wrote: ↑I have considered something like this, but was afraid that some of it would eventually trickle down and upset the capacitance somehow.
I would love to see a long-term report.
There isn't any way for it to ruin the capacitance... The amount of lube used is minimal, so no dripping happens. In addition, the lube is plastic/PCB safe. On top of that there is little chance for it to penetrate the PCB layers in the board.
Posted: 12 Nov 2015, 16:26
by ohaimark
andrewjoy wrote: ↑I have used some standard WD40 spray type oil on a few springs that where showing corrosion and wiped it off after, i did not noticed any difference.
We did a couple things differently, so it may not be comparable. Note that I say "may" because I lack a guinea pig board to play with.
1) WD-40 is hydrocarbon based and evaporates quickly.
2) You wiped your springs down after spraying. I brushed mine on and left it.
3) The formulation of WD-40 is quite different from FL; FL is specifically designed for small moving electronic parts whereas WD-40 is meant to be a penetrating oil for loosening tight connections, cleaning dirty parts, and rejecting water/debris.
Posted: 13 Nov 2015, 03:50
by chiptea
I'm gonna piggyback on your thread and ask something I've been meaning to ask for a while now. Could you try out lubing the sides of the caps/inside of the barrels? Would't that reduce friction and give it an entirely different keyfeel? I've never heard of anyone trying it out, and it seems it might yield some interesting results.
Posted: 13 Nov 2015, 04:52
by ohaimark
I just ordered a can of Teflon Dry Lubricant... I have an IBM Model M terminal board that I was going to sell unmolested, but the fates (A.K.A. chiptea) have spoken and told me to go ahead with it.
I'll get back to you with the results.
Posted: 13 Nov 2015, 05:16
by chiptea
Nice. I'll be looking forward to hearing your findings. Even if it doesn't work out, it shouldn't be too hard to clean out the lube if you don't go overboard with it. Certainly it's not something that's going to ruin a board.
Posted: 14 Nov 2015, 09:05
by Rotti
I just want to say, if corrosion resistance is the primary goal, I would reccomend a dry film lube as well.
Posted: 17 Nov 2015, 17:50
by ohaimark
The lube is in today. Will get back to you with results and photos.
Posted: 18 Nov 2015, 01:35
by ohaimark
The lube *definitely* makes the switch smooth. It doesn't make a huge difference in feel, but the difference is there.
I did a semi-scientific test (I didn't have the equipment to remove all variables) to prove it.
I set a piezoelectric pickup on the case of the Model M. Instead of recording vibrations from air like normal mics, piezoelectrics can convert surface vibrations to electric impulses. I figured that the vibrations from the piezo would correlate directly with switch smoothness. I was right.
Using Audacity to record lubed and non-lubed keys resulted in these
plots:
Reading the plots:
Conclusions:
I don't have any long term data on the lube, but in the short term it appears quite appealing.
Posted: 18 Nov 2015, 02:10
by Muirium
Appealing. I might just try some of this myself. Any idea if spray on PTFE is a good idea at all? I've got that, copper grease and silicon grease, all from my bike work.
Posted: 18 Nov 2015, 02:25
by ohaimark
I used a spray on version. PFTE = Teflon, so I think yours is equivalent. Just make sure it's plastic safe.
It also does crazy stuff to White ALPS switches. Makes them feel smooth and less balky. On the other hand, the click turns into more of a thock.
Posted: 18 Nov 2015, 02:27
by Muirium
Nice. As far as I can tell, it's a wet rather than dry lube. I use it to blast water out of dirty bike chains. I'll try it on my little
buckling spring tester…
Posted: 18 Nov 2015, 07:52
by chiptea
Interesting! I might just try this out on my model F after I get it working!
Posted: 18 Nov 2015, 13:22
by snarfarlarkus
Can you please write up a tutorial on how to lube the model f? cheers
Posted: 18 Nov 2015, 16:59
by ohaimark
Tutorial:
Remove keycap. Pull stem. Spray lube in the tube and the stem; be sure to attain full coverage. Wait 10 minutes for it to dry, insert the stem, and attach the keycap. Use keyboard.
Ms and Fs may be the world's easiest keyboard lube job.
Posted: 18 Nov 2015, 17:11
by andrewjoy
I am tempted to give it a try on my 102 terminal. As nice as it feels for a more moden M is is a little inconsistent in the click, even if every single rivet is still good.
Posted: 18 Nov 2015, 22:40
by chiptea
Wouldn't spraying it cause the risk of having it leak all over the membrane? I was thinking of using a Q tip to avoid this. Regardless, thanks for trying it out! Also, what brand of lubricant did you use?
Posted: 19 Nov 2015, 00:35
by ohaimark
It will get on the membrane. It doesn't matter if it gets on the membrane, though; the top layer prevents it from getting in the actual capacitive layer and the film it leaves is so thin that it is inconsequential to the mechanics.
I used Liquid Wrench L512 with CERFLON. I checked the chemicals to make sure they were safe for ABS and PBT plastic.
Posted: 19 Nov 2015, 05:45
by chiptea
All right, thanks. If I'm going to do it, I think I'll use q tips or something to apply the lube. I don't like the idea of grease getting inside and staying there.
Posted: 19 Nov 2015, 10:33
by andrewjoy
Could you link to something similar in the UK ?
Would it also be work trying the dry lub on some cherries see how it works ?
Posted: 19 Nov 2015, 16:34
by ohaimark
Look for, on your favorite shopping site, "dry pfte lubricant" or "dry teflon lubricant." Post a link here and I'll confirm whether it's good stuff or not.
I can't quite bring myself to shop for you all.
Posted: 19 Nov 2015, 17:13
by andrewjoy
Posted: 19 Nov 2015, 18:04
by ohaimark
That should do the trick!
Posted: 09 Dec 2015, 21:42
by andrewjoy
tried it on a few keys on one of my 122Fs , it does help a little smoother and the sound has less reverb
you only need a tiny tiny amount! Too much and you have to let it dry first or it wont work.
When i get my M2 i am going to disassemble and give the springs a good coating before i put it back together.
Re: Lubing IBM Model F/M Springs
Posted: 02 Apr 2021, 19:58
by Xcore
Did you ever get to try it out with your M2¿
Re:
Posted: 10 Apr 2021, 06:03
by andresteare
ohaimark wrote: ↑18 Nov 2015, 01:35
The lube *definitely* makes the switch smooth. It doesn't make a huge difference in feel, but the difference is there.
I did a semi-scientific test (I didn't have the equipment to remove all variables) to prove it.
I set a piezoelectric pickup on the case of the Model M. Instead of recording vibrations from air like normal mics, piezoelectrics can convert surface vibrations to electric impulses. I figured that the vibrations from the piezo would correlate directly with switch smoothness. I was right.
Using Audacity to record lubed and non-lubed keys resulted in these
plots:
Reading the plots:
Conclusions:
I don't have any long term data on the lube, but in the short term it appears quite appealing.
Did long-term went well?
