An appeal to Model M owners

y11971alex · 04 Dec 2016, 05:52

While I think I speak for most of us when I say I love the Model M -- a great, well-rounded keyboard -- there are definitely more outstanding choices when we become more particular in our taste for switches. Hence, we must have a great number of Model M keyboard lying around from our earlier days of keyboard fascination that we don't use on a regular basis anymore, such as the ubiquitous 1391401 or even the SSK.

However, after I mistakenly fitted my 1390131 with keycaps from my 6110344 (F122), I discovered a whole new world for the Model M. They just became significantly smoother. The difference, while not day-and-night, was hard to miss. Even the sound became a little more similar to the Model F. I don't know if there's a concrete difference between Model F caps and Model M ones, and as far as I'm concerned, they're intercompatible, but these 1-piece Model F caps really beat the 2-piece Model M caps by a long shot when it came to smoothness. I've checked for other factors, such as dust residue on the 2-piece ones, but it doesn't seem to be the difference between the two.

I wonder if anyone has any corroborating experience.

^the F122 caps aren't cut out for a 1390131, but they still fit!

Crazy Canadian XXIV · 04 Dec 2016, 06:11

I've got an M and an F122 that's up on metaphorical blocks. I'll give this a try tomorrow and report back.

Chyros · 04 Dec 2016, 09:38

Your F122 uses 1-piece caps? Oo

seebart · 04 Dec 2016, 09:51

So you actually felt a difference with the F caps? Hmm...well I thought about this quite a bit ages ago and I actually tried various combinations but to be honest it was minimalist at best. What would interest me if older IBM keycaps are indeed higher quality. I do have plenty to try out...

emdude · 04 Dec 2016, 10:16

@y11971alex, a while back I read your original post about this and tested your assertion by swapping some key caps between an XT and '91 SSK. I personally couldn't feel any real difference.

Could it perhaps be the condition of the barrel plate? A couple of months ago I did a bolt mod of an old Model M with a barrel plate from a Lexmark Model M and the key feel was markedly scratchier for some keys. I also vaguely recall some complaints about the quality of later Lexmark (possibly Unicomp as well?) Model M key feel..

That said, some of my F122's keys feel very scratchy as well and its ISO Enter binds pretty badly with off-center presses.

seebart · 04 Dec 2016, 10:33

emdude wrote: ↑@y11971alex, a while back I read your original post about this and tested your assertion by swapping some key caps between an XT and '91 SSK. I personally couldn't feel any real difference.

Could it perhaps be the condition of the barrel plate? A couple of months ago I did a bolt mod of an old Model M with a barrel plate from a Lexmark Model M and the key feel was markedly scratchier for some keys. I also vaguely recall some complaints about the quality of later Lexmark (possibly Unicomp as well?) Model M key feel..

That said, some of my F122's keys feel very scratchy as well and its ISO Enter binds pretty badly with off-center presses.

Agreed, I'm sure the barrel plate plays a significant role. The smoothest M I ever experienced was a IBM 1390888 122 in pristine condition that I sold but my bolt modded SSK comes very close.

y11971alex · 04 Dec 2016, 11:05

Well, we can tour the sample if you're in doubt

The change is not only in smoothness, but in sound and feel. I almost couldn't feel the mat under the barrels with the Model F caps. Perhaps they were slightly longer?

fohat · 04 Dec 2016, 15:14

y11971alex wrote: ↑
I almost couldn't feel the mat under the barrels with the Model F caps.

I am not sure what this means, but there are numerous people who perceive a significant difference between 1-piece and 2-piece.

@Chyros - 1-piece caps seemed to appear off and on throughout the cycle, perhaps almost at random as far as I can tell.

wobbled · 04 Dec 2016, 17:32

Definitely agree with this, I've put one piece caps on my Industrial SSK and it really does change the typing feel and sound to some degree. I wouldn't say it's worth buying a whole set of one piece caps just for the slight difference, but if you have them spare then they're definitely worth swapping around.

Rwhite025 · 04 Dec 2016, 19:26

Super cool man, I didn't even know one piece caps existed!

fohat · 04 Dec 2016, 19:48

Rwhite025 wrote: ↑Super cool man, I didn't even know one piece caps existed!

Most of the small Fs have 1-piece keys, and some SSKs. It has not seemed consistent to me.

Unicomp has been doing some 1-piece keys in recent years, but I have bought at least 3 sets and they have all been 2-piece.

snoopy · 04 Dec 2016, 23:23

fohat wrote: ↑
Rwhite025 wrote: ↑Super cool man, I didn't even know one piece caps existed!
Most of the small Fs have 1-piece keys, and some SSKs. It has not seemed consistent to me.

Unicomp has been doing some 1-piece keys in recent years, but I have bought at least 3 sets and they have all been 2-piece.

buy black ones and you get one piece

mike52787 · 04 Dec 2016, 23:25

One of my ssks had all one piece caps except for 3 or 4, but the other one had almost all 2 piece caps. There is no real rhyme or reason for what caps come with what boards.

emdude · 04 Dec 2016, 23:30

mike52787 wrote: ↑One of my ssks had all one piece caps except for 3 or 4, but the other one had almost all 2 piece caps. There is no real rhyme or reason for what caps come with what boards.

That's rather unusual. Did they have previous owners?

mike52787 · 04 Dec 2016, 23:31

emdude wrote: ↑
mike52787 wrote: ↑One of my ssks had all one piece caps except for 3 or 4, but the other one had almost all 2 piece caps. There is no real rhyme or reason for what caps come with what boards.
That's rather unusual. Did they have previous owners?

I bought them on taobao. The one I kept is a 87 with almost all one piece caps, and the one I sold was a 91 with mostly 2 piece caps.

emdude · 04 Dec 2016, 23:37

Hm, I'm just aware that certain P/Ns have particular key cap types; I believe the 1397681 SSK is known to come with one-piece caps (I own one and this is also documented on clickykeyboards). They ought to be uniform across the board, so maybe the previous owners replaced missing key caps.

fohat · 05 Dec 2016, 00:30

I have a 1391472 that was new-in-box and it had 2-piece caps.

mike52787 · 05 Dec 2016, 00:51

The 87 ssk I have is a 1391472, and the only 2 piece caps on it are the f and j caps with the homing bars.

drevyek · 05 Dec 2016, 10:37

mike52787 wrote: ↑The 87 ssk I have is a 1391472, and the only 2 piece caps on it are the f and j caps with the homing bars.

Do those 2-piece caps sit a bit higher than the 1-piece caps?

I swapped my 2-piece caps on my cut-down SSK with my XT caps, leaving only the homing caps, which sit sliiiightly higher than the 1-piece. Haven't really felt a difference- can hear a slight difference though.

seebart · 05 Dec 2016, 10:42

fohat wrote: ↑1-piece caps seemed to appear off and on throughout the cycle, perhaps almost at random as far as I can tell.

That's my experience also, I used to think that only older IBM keyboards have one piece caps, not so.

wiki/Seebart

Halvar · 05 Dec 2016, 13:58

mike52787 wrote: ↑The 87 ssk I have is a 1391472, and the only 2 piece caps on it are the f and j caps with the homing bars.

Yes, same for my 1392980 terminal SSK.

Khers · 05 Dec 2016, 14:06

Halvar wrote: ↑
mike52787 wrote: ↑The 87 ssk I have is a 1391472, and the only 2 piece caps on it are the f and j caps with the homing bars.
Yes, same for my 1392980 terminal SSK.

Same for my '87 1391472, whereas my '91 1392934 came entirely with two piece 1u-caps.

Mattr567 · 11 Dec 2016, 06:25

I put some XT caps on a '93 Model M today and I did feel a difference. Felt thicker while having a deeper sound. M caps on a Model F had a lighter sound to it.

Nothing significant however.

Crazy Canadian XXIV · 14 Dec 2016, 02:27

Alright, so I've been using single-piece caps from my F122 on my M for a little while now ('bout a week), just switched back to the original M caps... the F caps did make it noticeably smoother. It's not a huge difference though, to echo what folks have been saying here.

Mr.Nobody · 18 Dec 2016, 03:42

The Ms I restored and sold was mistakenly oiled by its original owner. He dropped some oil into those barrels obviously. The keyboard still works but becomes quieter and the sound and feel becomes more solid comparing to my other almost-in-mint-condiction Ms...but it lost a little Ms' flavor...

I am kind of a purist on Ms, I don't mess around except temporarily, I prefer to keep them as original as possible.

I can feel and hear the difference of buckling spring among different Ms, but I can't feel anything deep down inside further, even though I play piano my hands have subtle tactile perception...

fohat · 18 Dec 2016, 05:58

I bought a Model M for cheap on ebay as "for parts or not working" because the previous owner had tried to do a "grease mod" and botched it. I took it apart, threw the springs and pivot plates (aka "flippers") into the garbage, cleaned it thoroughly, and built a perfectly good specimen out of it.

Mr.Nobody · 18 Dec 2016, 09:23

fohat wrote: ↑I bought a Model M for cheap on ebay as "for parts or not working" because the previous owner had tried to do a "grease mod" and botched it. I took it apart, threw the springs and pivot plates (aka "flippers") into the garbage, cleaned it thoroughly, and built a perfectly good specimen out of it.

Why threw'em away; flippers and springs could be useful as spare parts. Out of curiosity, what kind of specimen if it's not useable anymore?

fohat · 18 Dec 2016, 15:47

Mr.Nobody wrote: ↑
Why threw'em away; flippers and springs could be useful as spare parts. Out of curiosity, what kind of specimen if it's not useable anymore?

I have hundreds of pivot plates and springs (aka "flippers") from various IBM keyboards (except, unfortunately, not F style) that I have parted out over the years.

The original "grease mod" from the factory http://clickykeyboards.com/product/1994 ... 10-mar-94/ seems to hold up well, but amateur jobs are rarely successful.

This one was nasty and the goo was all over.

Mr.Nobody · 18 Dec 2016, 22:50

In fact those springs can be pulled out and sticked back into barrels onto the flippers, just need to rub grease over them to make them Softouch...not quite a complicated job but could be a little time-consuming.

fohat · 19 Dec 2016, 01:55

Mr.Nobody wrote: ↑
springs can be pulled out and sticked back into barrels onto the plippers, just need to rub grease over them to make them Softouch ....

not quite a complicated job but could be a little time-consuming.

That sounds like an insanely treacherous undertaking with almost no chance for success.