Leading Edge AK-1012

[Polecat]

I've been patiently looking for a Futaba keyboard with a decent layout, and finally found one, a Leading Edge AK-1012. I had one of these previously, but I wore the legends off the caps. Surprisingly this one has double shot caps. I'm a careful ebay shopper, but it still takes a bit of luck to find a keyboard that's immaculately clean inside. This one has zero shine on the caps, zero rust or dirt inside, and just a bit of irregular yellowing on the edges of the case. I doubt it has ever been used. The switches are uniform and very crisp. And it still had the protective clear sticker over the badge.

The case on my other one is less yellowed, so that's an easy fix. But since it still works perfectly I don't want to toss it. So I'm thinking of painting the yellowed case and finding a set of aftermarket MX caps to replace the originals. Which brings up the question, does anyone know of a set of MX caps with the big step on the CapsLock and 1.5u Ctrl and Alt caps? I don't know a thing about MX stuff, or even where to look. I'm wide open to color. Note the difference in the CapsLock caps between the two keyboards. The one I'll need is the version with the bigger step.

[kbdfr]

[…] Which brings up the question, does anyone know of a set of MX caps with the big step on the CapsLock and 1.5u Ctrl and Alt caps? […] the CapsLock […] I'll need is the version with the bigger step.

The "bigger step" CapsLock being Cherry standard and the 1.5u Ctrl and Alt caps having been Cherry standard prior to the introduction of Windows keys, any OG Cherry vintage (ANSI) set will fit.

[Polecat]

Good to hear, thank you! I'll have to figure out the stabilizers (similar to Alps on these) and the guide post on the spacebar, unless someone makes aftermarket caps that will swap directly. That seems unlikely, but I haven't dealt with MX stuff.

[doomsday_device]

could also just keep the spacebar instead

how is the sound on this one? had some futaba ma boards myself and the switches sound seem to heavily rely on the chassis around them

[Polecat]

I will probably have to keep the spacebar; thanks for that suggestion. I opened up the two keyboards and there are a couple surprising differences. First, one spacebar has the guide post on the left side, the other is on the right. Second, the plate on the double shot one has a wide slot for the CapsLock switch in either position, while the other one will only take the switch in the "MX cap" position. The PC boards on both have pads for the Caps Lock switch in either position. Cases are the same, so swapping things around to make one stock and one custom is still a possibility as long as the keycaps stay with the matching plate. But I'm still unclear on the stabilizers.

From what I've been told the stabilizers on aftermarket MX cap sets could be one of several types. I'm mostly familiar with Alps, and getting inserts to fit the MX slots isn't a problem. But I've been told that some cap sets take Costar-type stabilizers, and I don't think I can use those because the 1012s don't have slots in the plate for those. So...how can I tell which type of stabilizers a particular aftermarket MX cap set uses?

The sound of the Futaba MA switches on this one is quite pleasing. It's a solid and nicely resonant case, and assuming one likes Futaba switches it does not disappoint.

[Polecat]

Cases swapped. Result--one very clean AK-1012 with an unyellowed case and double shot caps. The other awaiting a painted case and custom caps.

I think I was asking a stupid question about stabilized MX caps. Do all of those have three MX mounts, regardless of whether Cherry or Costar stabilizers? In other words will any MX cap set take either type of stabilizers?

[Muirium]

In other words will any MX cap set take either type of stabilizers?

Yes, as far as I understand. Cherry and Costar stabs are key cap compatible. The fourth mount some space bars have is for alternate switch positions, not stabs.

The wiki has the nitty gritty on this.
wiki/Space_bar_dimensions

[Polecat]

Yes, as far as I understand. Cherry and Costar stabs are key cap compatible. The fourth mount some space bars have is for alternate switch positions, not stabs.

The wiki has the nitty gritty on this.
wiki/Space_bar_dimensions

Thanks, I'm screwed on the spacebar because the original has a guide post like some Alps setups. But I'm hoping the rest of the stabilized caps from an aftermarket set will work. I don't really want to spend 50 bucks to find out that nothing will work. I spent a stupid amount of time searching for info and photos of aftermarket caps that explained the stabilizers. No such luck. Then I went to ebay and found what I needed in 30 seconds. I guess everyone here already knew about MX, but I've mostly dealt with Alps so I didn't have a clue.

[Shorle]

[...] will any MX cap set take either type of stabilizers?

Mostly yes, but it depends. I have seen Backspaces and Numpad_+ caps for MX Switches that are in theory MX compatible but only have one mount post for the switch and no mounting option for any stabilizer. Those work but are obviously not as stable.
Also, some long caps (read Spacebar and right Shift, maybe ANSI left Shift) may use different (fixed) versions of costar'ish stabilizers. If you stick to the common OG Cherry keycaps you should be fine. Apart from those oddities the original Costar stabilizers should work on any keycaps with modern MX mount placement. 3ildcat showed off the differences of Costar and Cherry Stabs in his video.

Spoiler:

Here are some caps from a DCS'ish set I found on a 1990's keyboard:

I added some other Spacebars for comparison.

There are also different variants of slider mounting inserts, some of the ones I stumbled upon are these:

Triumph Adler Typewriters also use different versions on the Spacebar than on the Mods. The Spacebar slider on those is guided with a PCB mounted guide while the Mods are unguided.

Another example of not fully compatible keycaps are Packard Bell / BTC51xx keyboards. They use a mixture of rod stabs on Numpad and Backspace and wire stabs on Enter, Spacebar and right Shift.

Spoiler:

[wiki/File:Btc_5149_E5XKBM10140_keycaps.jpg]

[Polecat]

[...] will any MX cap set take either type of stabilizers?

Mostly yes, but it depends. I have seen Backspaces and Numpad_+ caps for MX Switches that are in theory MX compatible but only have one mount post for the switch and no mounting option for any stabilizer. Those work but are obviously not as stable.
Also, some long caps (read Spacebar and right Shift, maybe ANSI left Shift) may use different (fixed) versions of costar'ish stabilizers. If you stick to the common OG Cherry keycaps you should be fine. AfaIk I haven't used original Costar stabilizers yet and can't test but iIrc 3ildcat said in one of his videos keycaps were not compatible ...

Spoiler:

Here are some caps from a DCS'ish set I found on a 1990's keyboard:

I added some other Spacebars for comparison.

There are also different variants of slider mounting inserts, some of the ones I stumbled upon are these:

Triumph Adler Typewriters also use different versions on the Spacebar than on the Mods. The Spacebar slider on those is guided with a PCB mounted guide while the Mods are unguided.

Another example of not fully compatible keycaps are Packard Bell / BTC51xx keyboards. They use a mixture of rod stabs on Numpad and Backspace and wire stabs on Enter, Spacebar and right Shift.

Spoiler:

[wiki/File:Btc_5149_E5XKBM10140_keycaps.jpg]

Thank you, good info. I don't have a set of Cherry caps and I wouldn't break up a Cherry keyboard for this project. So I'm looking at buying a set of aftermarket caps of some sort. Layout is ANSI, but with no windows keys, so I'll need a set with 1.5u Ctrl and Alt caps. Choices seem pretty limited (and pricey) but I really don't know how to search. Do I really need to buy a set with 173 caps just to get those four bottom row keys? Stabilizer inserts aren't a problem as long as the caps have MX slots. Wires aren't a problem; I can make new ones if the originals won't fit. Again the spacebar has a post as well as a stabilizer wire, so I'll have to reuse that.

So...the way I see it what I need is a set of aftermarket caps with MX stabilizer slots in ANSI layout with 1.5u Ctrl and Alt caps. Is there a search term or keyword that would help with that? Any particular brand or supplier?

[Shorle]

I found the video I was referring to and will edit that as well, because like Muirium and I initially said common MX keycaps are compatible with both Cherry type and original costar type stabs - just not those weird costar like ones found on the boards i mentioned above.

Regarding your keycap dilemma I don't seem to quite understand. If you want a modern keycap set you'll have to find one with the addon set that includes 1.5u Ctrl and Alt, yes.
I understand your restraint to break up a functional Cherry keyboard but why don't you get a set that's on those G81-Keycap holders Cherry made? Check for Capslock compatibility though.

No matter what you get you'll have trouble matching the color with the spacebar you need to keep I guess. No chance to just forgo the post and let the wire do all the stabilizing?

About the mirrored rods on the spacebars: you could use that to turn them and have an upside down spacebar like those young folks these days.

[Polecat]

Thanks again, I really appreciate your help and patience. I've done plenty of swapping on Alps stuff, but Cherry is way out of my comfort zone. Whole different rabbit hole.

I was hoping to find a set with the 1.5u Ctrl and Alt without having to buy all the other extras, because the 104-105 key sets are in the $20-25 range, while the 170-173 key sets are more like $50-60. I hate to waste the extra money when I won't use most of the extras. I'll check out the G81. That's exactly the kind of info I'm looking for, since I know nothing about Cherry boards.

If I was 15 I'd probably do the spacebar flip, but that was 3/4 of a lifetime ago. I bet I could punch out the plate and use Costar stabilizers on the spacebar, instead of the post, and that would let me match the color and get me one cap closer to justifying the extra cost of the 173 cap set.

[Polecat]

Update: I learned enough about MX caps and stabilizers to push the button and order a set of caps from Tai Hao. I can't say enough about how helpful the folks there are. Incredible customer service. The set I wanted didn't have a matching 7u spacebar, so I asked if they had one from a different set that was the same color. They wrote back to say there was, and since there wasn't a tab on that set to buy one separately they created a tab just so I could buy that one piece. They did have the 1.5u Ctrl and Alt caps available as a separate package, and the two different CapsLock caps already came with the set. I placed the order, and the package was in my hands from Taiwan (to California) in two days. Amazing. And not only did they get the order exactly right, they also included three extra 7u spacebars in slightly different colors, at no charge, along with the usual Tai Hao goodie package.

Looking closer at the stabilizer pin on the original Leading Edge spacebar it fits into an MX mount. So I'm thinking I can carve down one of the "extra" MX caps from Tai Hao and glue the mount part to the bottom of the new spacebar in the right place and make it work. The original stabilizer wire has the right spacing for the new spacebar and the other stabilized caps "should" all work with new (MX) inserts, which I have here someplace.

So...I need to glue the MX mount onto the new spacebar (I'll practice on one of the extra ones first) and dig out the inserts for it and the other caps. Paint the case (Duplicolor probably) and it should be good to go. We'll see. Thanks to all for the help and good advice.

edit: If anyone's still reading this I was curious about what glue works best on PBT? I've glued ABS with ABS plumbing cement with great success, but I don't know if that would work on PBT?

[SK-8K]

Tai-Hao makes and has always made pretty decent stuff (with the exception of those clicky membrane keyboards from the 90s).

Seriously an underrated gem in the keyboard world making doubleshots with a normal font at an excellent price.

As for gluing PBT, it won't dissolve in acetone so ABS cement won't work. There's 2-part plastic epoxies that might work.

[Polecat]

Latest: The yellowed case is painted, caps installed, back together and working nicely. The guide pin on the spacebar actually fits into an MX cross mount, so I carved down one of the extra caps from the Tai Hao set and glued the stub to the bottom of the spacebar using Loctite 454 plastic gel adhesive. One chance to get it in the right place (I didn't practice on a junk cap first) but I got lucky. The stabilizer inserts are from a Monterey Alps board. Wires are the originals from the Leading Edge. Still to do - matte clear over the gray paint on the case, prep and paint the plate, and change the cord to a gray one. The spacebar looks darker in the photo (this is my "other" camera, my photos always suck...) than it does in real life, I'm good with that. Thanks to all for the help and good advice.

[doomsday_device]

looks excellent!

[Polecat]

Update: The case is now oversprayed with two coats of Rustoleum matte clear. I'm hoping it protects the gray underneath. Regardless it really smoothed out the base coat of gray and improved its appearance, so I'd recommend the matte clear on that basis alone. Here are a couple outdoor photos. I need to read the book on my camera. Dozens of settings, most identified only by an unintelligible icon in the menu. I still need to find and swap a gray cable, and possibly sand and paint the plate, but otherwise I think I'm done with this one.

[inozenz]

Really great transformation, I dig the color scheme a lot!!

[Polecat]

Thank you, I'm very happy with the results. I'd like to thank hellothere for suggesting the Rustoleum paint and the matte clear top coat, and Tai Hao for being wondefully helpful (again) in putting together the set of caps I needed.

The best part is that I saved two keyboards by making two good ones out of two bad ones. One had a badly yellowed case, but nice doubleshot caps. The other had a nice case, but printed caps with many of the legends worn off. So now I have the gray custom one, with painted case and Tai Hao doubleshot PBT caps, and a bone stock one with a nice case and doubleshot caps. Both with Futaba MA switches, of course.

[Muirium]

Congratulations on two jobs well done.

Are those Tai Hao caps really purple legends or is it just your photos? I like the sensible typeface choice. Whenever I’ve seen people post their Tai Hao stuff, however, it’s in such garish colour ways I forget to zoom in for a look! These are quite nice, even if they’re a bit lavender.

Probably need to do something about that yellow cable though.

[Polecat]

Thank you. The cable isn't really yellowed, but it will be changed to gray as soon as I can dig out my spares. Yes on the purple legends, but they're very subtle and appear gray in indoor lighting. Tai Hao calls this set "light and dark gray". I didn't have a lot of choices, because I needed an offset (stepped) CapsLock, 1.5u Ctrl and Alt, and a 7u spacebar. They recommended a spacebar from a different set, and even put a button on their website so I could buy it separately. It looks darker in the photos than it does in person.

edit: Typing on the AK-1012, cable is now gray, all can sleep better now, including myself. (..to paint the plate, or not to paint the plate? I know, I'll paint it purple!)

[Polecat]

Just in case anyone thought I was kidding...

Also a shot of the keycap scrap glued to the bottom of the spacebar with the guide post installed.

Apologies for the crappy photos, and thanks to my old friend //gainsborough for inspiration on painting the plate!

Next comes the purple LEDs and reassembly of the caps and case.

[Polecat]

Purple LEDs, purple plate, gray cable, done. I learned about MX cap sets and stabilizers and gluing PBT from this one. And using matte clear as a topcoat on a painted case, but I won't have long-term results on that for a while yet.

[Polecat]

Not to forget the stock one, which also came out of this project. It's striking how different the stock caps and the Tai Hao PBT ones sound.

[Muirium]

Inspired choice on embracing the purpliest of colours for the plate and lock lights. Great to see it done. Really brings the room together.

[fanf]

yep purple is the best colour - tho this photo makes it look pinker and less imperial than it is in real life

purple pcb

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