Deciding on my next board

[StrangerCoug]

So I've been using a Unicomp New Model M as my daily driver on my desktop for the past two and a half years. I think it's a great typing/coding keyboard; however, I also use my computer for gaming every so often, and I'd like a secondary keyboard more suitable for that purpose. The New Model M is OK for the simulation games I tend to gravitate towards, but for some other genres (racing in particular, sometimes platformers) I find myself eschewing the keyboard in favor of a Thrustmaster eSwap X PRO controller.

I've been looking the most at a custom WASD Keyboards Hotswap V3. I like that I can order it with practically any legends I want. The switch I want isn't one of the listed options, but being a hot-swappable keyboard eliminates that problem—I'd be free to experiment. (I'd like to try out the Zealio 67g, by the way.)

The Model F F104 keyboard from Model F labs appeals to me, too. If only it weren't a limited-time item that I'd have to put on my credit card to be able to afford

What do you think? And if any of you have played reasonably modern games with a Model F (either an IBM or a Model F labs board), what is your opinion of it as a gaming board?

[StrangerCoug]

An update on this: Right now I'm adopting a "why not both?" attitude toward this—upgrade to the Model F F104 as my daily driver, and later on down the road buy the WASD Hotswap as a gaming keyboard.

[Muirium]

More keyboards? That’s the spirit.

As for gaming on Model F:

I did complete (ye olde) Sniper Elite 2 with my Magic Mouse and IBM Model F XT some years ago, but the inability to press buttons independently does make that mouse a whole extra layer of difficulty in itself! Mad clicky keyboard sounds while sneaking behind enemy's backs, however, is a joy to behold!

I think that was around 2014, but in my defence: Sniper Elite was a pretty damn unforgiving hardcore shooter. I found Model F no slower than my handbuilt MX.

[del20nd]

Here's how I'd approach this (spoiler: I'm a wet blanket):

1) What problem are you trying to solve? You say you're happy with your Model M, but sometimes use a controller for gaming. Is this really an issue, or are you just bored with your "old" keyboard and looking for a change? Is the introduction of a new keyboard (or two) going to improve your quality of life after the novelty of a new thing wears off?

2) Assuming that you come to the conclusion that this will be a major QoL improvement for you, is the problem worth going into debt over? Accruing debt is swapping a solution for a new problem, and if you can't pay down the cc balance quickly the keyboard will cost you even more than its asking price. Your Model M is already a decent board, so at this point you're chasing diminishing returns going from membrane BS to capacitive BS. Only you really know your personal finances, and what you can afford to invest in this regard, but try to take out personal biases when you make this choice.

My take: you'll probably see a QoL improvement when moving from a Model M to an F, as almost all people seem to prefer capacitive buckling springs over membrane, but I wouldn't personally be comfortable spending the $420 starting price for the board if I couldn't afford it outright. $420 for a keyboard is very much in the territory of luxury; the improvements over a Model M are real, but also pretty far into diminishing returns. It's very tempting because of the limited time nature of the project, but it's hard to say that it's worth going into debt over.

Maybe it's justifiable if you know you can pay down the card balance in a short amount of time, and you use your keyboard extensively, but only you really know your situation and you have to be honest with yourself about this.

As far as gaming goes, I don't think you'll see a huge improvement over the Model M in this regard. The improvement of capacitive buckling springs for me is very much in the realm of typing; the lighter and more accurate feeling mechanism makes it so that long typing sessions are less tiring (and more satisfying) than on a Model M. The primary goals of IBM's keyswitch designs were always geared around the best typing feel, not the best gaming feel, and the shortcomings of a membrane buckling spring are similar to a capacitive buckling spring in this regard. If you don't like gaming on your Model M, then you also will probably not like gaming on a Model F.

[Muirium]

I definitely agree with the Don't Go Into Debt angle! Ellipse has been making Fs for several years now, and there's no real hurry to nab one of his boards before they're gone forever. They might be around longer than you think.

Model F does have one material advantage over M for gaming: it is inherently NKRO. The few times I tried using an SSK for gaming didn't go so well thanks to blocking. Ignored keys really are a liability in the heat of the action.

[del20nd]

Model F does have one material advantage over M for gaming: it is inherently NKRO. The few times I tried using an SSK for gaming didn't go so well thanks to blocking. Ignored keys really are a liability in the heat of the action.

That's a good point Muirium. If you like the feel of BS switches for gaming but it's specifically the 2-key rollover causing your issues, then that's worth consideration. For key feel alone, I don't find that the M and F perform too differently for gaming, though. It's all about that typing.

Second good point: Ellipse's recent project literally just launched two weeks ago. If the past is any indication it'll be around for awhile yet. Maybe save up and get the board free and clear. FWIW the F62 and F77 projects launched in 2017(?), and those boards are still available for purchase today.

To be clear: if you really want the Model F and can afford it, I'm not trying to push you away from owning one. Far from it: an ANSI F has been what I considered an unattainable "summit keyboard" for years now, so I was personally all-in on the project almost immediately. I'm just really, really against the idea of accruing personal debt without a VERY good reason, and "because its clickety-clacks are 22% better than my current keyboard" doesn't count in my book.

[thefarside]

del20nd nailed it. The Model F is great but not good enough to get into debt over. Save your money until you can buy one debt free and don't worry about fear of missing out. There's a repro F77 on eBay for a good price if you wanted to check it out now and can live with the 77 key layout.

[StrangerCoug]

1) What problem are you trying to solve? You say you're happy with your Model M, but sometimes use a controller for gaming. Is this really an issue, or are you just bored with your "old" keyboard and looking for a change?

For racing games, the problem that I have is suffered by most keyboards, not just the Model M: for acceleration and braking, there's really only "pedal all the way down" and "off" unless you have a way to sense how hard the acceleration/brake button is held down. I don't see myself getting rid of the controller even with a more "proper" gaming keyboard.

As for my other issue with using a Model M for gaming:

If you like the feel of BS switches for gaming but it's specifically the 2-key rollover causing your issues, then that's worth consideration.

Yes, it's the Model M's 2KRO that I don't like when I want to do more than casual gaming. I don't need a rainbow of RGB colors on my keyboard (and I absolutely hate the ones whose keycaps put the base legend on the top and the shifted legend on the bottom); if I get good gaming performance out of it, I'll be happy.

I agree with what's been said in this thread about it not being worth it to go into debt over a keyboard, especially when I'm trying to get my existing debt down. I've had a talk with Ellipse over PM, but if he still has the model I want available past the end of the month (when his website implies he's closing orders), I'll probably get it when I'm happier with my current financial situation. Other things have priority for me right now.

[guidemetothelight]

I've had a talk with Ellipse over PM, but if he still has the model I want available past the end of the month (when his website implies he's closing orders)

where are you getting that info from if I may ask.

Image.PNG (9.03 KiB) Viewed 2022 times

thats all I could find pertaining to "closing production"

EDIT: Nevermind, just saw the note "have your orders in by 30.04 .... f*ck , I wanted to get one myself. maybe I need to sell some boards real quick.

[kmnov2017]

I've had a talk with Ellipse over PM, but if he still has the model I want available past the end of the month (when his website implies he's closing orders)

where are you getting that info from if I may ask.
Image.PNG

thats all I could find pertaining to "closing production"

EDIT: Nevermind, just saw the note "have your orders in by 30.04 .... f*ck , I wanted to get one myself. maybe I need to sell some boards real quick.

"have your orders in by 30.04 ...." Ellipse has been updating this every month ever since the project launched since 2015....

[guidemetothelight]

"have your orders in by 30.04 ...." Ellipse has been updating this every month ever since the project launched since 2015....

ahhh , so the classic use of FOMO
got me