ALPS SKCL keyboard first encounter binding switches

soviet9922

30 Jun 2023, 03:51

Hi,

A few weeks ago purchased an old portable computer to restore it and convert it into a retro master race pc, but has been all bad luck it arrived wasted in the post and the case required a lot of glue and fixing and other issues.

But to make things worse the keyboard that looked ok resulted in being in very bad shape.

From what I found on the wiki the switches are Alps White SKCL.

Lots of keys have a wrong feeling they take time to move up after being pressed and were bindy, but all of them activated and clicked so the first thought was that some kind of dirt or gunk was in them so I washed the keyboard in hot distilled water using a little detergent and rinsed it well after.

While the keyboard was wet all keys feel ok so I was very happy with the result, but 3 days later when it completely dried up and tested, 80% of the keys feel bindy and will feel wrong when clicking.

In the picture removed the keycaps from the worst-feeling keys but they are even more that feel bad.

Now looked on eBay for replacement switches and they are expensive from my calculations have to purchase like 50 switches to replace the bad-feeling ones and this is expensive!

So looking on the net found some threads that talk about lubrication inside the switches and that by cleaning them remove the lube and make them bindy.

So added white lithium grease to a couple of them and magically they started to work fine! :D

Before continuing to mess the switches up need to ask what is the issue here and if the lithium grease is the correct "fix" ?.

Any information will be helpful.
Attachments
all the missing keycaps are bad feeling keys.
all the missing keycaps are bad feeling keys.
d40730a4-0600-424d-869a-87fa3e961a69.jpg (422.04 KiB) Viewed 3479 times
a00dc9a6-02e0-4acf-be69-6fbbceff97cd.jpg
a00dc9a6-02e0-4acf-be69-6fbbceff97cd.jpg (277.84 KiB) Viewed 3479 times
b1c2d5ef-a218-4287-9c12-24aba3a2a024.jpg
b1c2d5ef-a218-4287-9c12-24aba3a2a024.jpg (213.98 KiB) Viewed 3479 times

Delta Research

30 Jun 2023, 06:20

The waxboil mod works great for restoring the push feel of most keyboard switches. I would suggest watching Kuritakey's video on YouTube for a how-to.

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jsheradin

30 Jun 2023, 14:07

Be warned that those are not Alps switches, they're "4 tab" clones of some sort. Based on the keycaps I'd guess Tai-hao. If you're planning on wax boiling you need to be careful about temperature since they might melt at a lower point than actual Alps. I'm not sure anyone has tried those before so you might be the guinea pig. I've tried just about everything on a wide variety of boards and wax-boiling is consistently very good.

I think wax+wet lube is the current meta but just wet lube (such as white lithium) is fine as long as it feels good to you.

robinsonb5

30 Jun 2023, 20:12

jsheradin wrote:
30 Jun 2023, 14:07
I think wax+wet lube is the current meta but just wet lube (such as white lithium) is fine as long as it feels good to you.
I was about to ask whether anyone had tried the wax boil mod on space invaders (I have an otherwise very nice SI keyboard with a space bar that binds if I don't press it in *exactly* the right spot) - I see from the linked thread that the answer is "yes"!

soviet9922

02 Jul 2023, 01:58

The wax thing from the videos looks like to much work and doesn't seem to even fix the issue.
So ended up adding lithium grease to all switches just spraying it using the holes in the key steam, and all seems to be ok for me now.
Hope the grease will last longer, and will not have to disassemble the keyboard to clean and add more grease every 6 months.

Delta Research

02 Jul 2023, 03:03

soviet9922 wrote:
02 Jul 2023, 01:58
The wax thing from the videos looks like to much work and doesn't seem to even fix the issue.
So ended up adding lithium grease to all switches just spraying it using the holes in the key steam, and all seems to be ok for me now.
Hope the grease will last longer, and will not have to disassemble the keyboard to clean and add more grease every 6 months.
Lithium grease is not safe on plastic, and waxboil mod does work in restoring binding and scratchiness. Anything based on petroleum will weaken plastic over time and can cause irreparable damage.

User avatar
browncow

02 Jul 2023, 10:22

how's the computer itself? it looks like something from Dolch, judging by the colourscheme, did it come with some guts or just the case? It's very interesting, what are your plans? Also the board is quite simmilar to an alps clone 19" rack board i got. I wonder if same company made these boards.

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jsheradin

02 Jul 2023, 17:34

Delta Research wrote:
02 Jul 2023, 03:03
Lithium grease is not safe on plastic
I think the grease itself is safe but whatever carrier solvent a spray uses might indeed be damaging. Always a good idea to read the labeling and do a test patch before using random chemicals plastic.

podgen

03 Jul 2023, 01:27

jsheradin wrote:
30 Jun 2023, 14:07
Be warned that those are not Alps switches, they're "4 tab" clones of some sort. Based on the keycaps I'd guess Tai-hao. If you're planning on wax boiling you need to be careful about temperature since they might melt at a lower point than actual Alps.
i would definitely still be careful with clones as they're all different, but I waxboiled my OA2 clones today to great effect! It vanished most of the abhorrent binding and helped with smoothness. I'm really not sure if there's any science to back it up, but if anyone does this i would go for a plastic sieve instead of a metal one. Because the plastic conducts less heat it's easier to take out of the water, but it also just feels like it's better for the switches in some unknown and unscientific way

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Muirium
µ

03 Jul 2023, 13:57

podgen wrote:
03 Jul 2023, 01:27
but it also just feels like it's better for the switches in some unknown and unscientific way
The best way. :D

I managed to get shot of all my iffy Alps boards, so none come to mind to try this on. I'd definitely consider it if I encounter some gnarly old switches again, even clones and whole other families.

Anyone tried it on MX red? My Filco with silent reds is by far the scratchiest board I have, but it came to me brand new.

podgen

03 Jul 2023, 15:54

Muirium wrote:
03 Jul 2023, 13:57
podgen wrote:
03 Jul 2023, 01:27
but it also just feels like it's better for the switches in some unknown and unscientific way
Anyone tried it on MX red? My Filco with silent reds is by far the scratchiest board I have, but it came to me brand new.
do keep in mind that the dampeners on mx-y silents aren't (to my knowledge) removable, and I, in the same unscientific way, wouldn't trust boiling waxy water with the rubber bits. I think I would personally just lube them with 205g0, but i would avoid the rubber if you can.

Delta Research

03 Jul 2023, 18:12

podgen wrote:
03 Jul 2023, 15:54
Muirium wrote:
03 Jul 2023, 13:57
podgen wrote:
03 Jul 2023, 01:27
but it also just feels like it's better for the switches in some unknown and unscientific way
Anyone tried it on MX red? My Filco with silent reds is by far the scratchiest board I have, but it came to me brand new.
do keep in mind that the dampeners on mx-y silents aren't (to my knowledge) removable, and I, in the same unscientific way, wouldn't trust boiling waxy water with the rubber bits. I think I would personally just lube them with 205g0, but i would avoid the rubber if you can.
The dampers on silent mx switches I've had can be removed but I wouldn't recommend it. It's possible to put some dampers back on unevenly causing pretty bad keyfeel/less silencing. Rubbing wax on the slider could help, since the boiling step is to clean the switch. Water just warm enough to melt the wax works as well.

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Muirium
µ

03 Jul 2023, 18:39

Delta Research wrote:
03 Jul 2023, 18:12
Water just warm enough to melt the wax works as well.
Aha! :D

The switches aren't dirty, just unsatisfactory by design. This sounds doable to me. Though I'd still need to desolder the lot of them to get them out, so it's unlikely any time soon.

Top and bottom halves of the shells, and the sliders, all in a warm (but not boiling) water and wax bath?

Delta Research

03 Jul 2023, 18:51

For MX, I only waxed the stem as waxing the housing can be problematic (wax gunking up the leaf and top housing). I generally use 190-200 F (~87-93 C) water for waxing things that have the possibility to warp at boiling temp.

soviet9922

05 Jul 2023, 00:01

jsheradin wrote:
02 Jul 2023, 17:34
Delta Research wrote:
02 Jul 2023, 03:03
Lithium grease is not safe on plastic
I think the grease itself is safe but whatever carrier solvent a spray uses might indeed be damaging. Always a good idea to read the labeling and do a test patch before using random chemicals plastic.
According to the can is good for metal on metal and metal on plastic.
And indeed it contains solvents, but the should be safe on ABS (hope so).

soviet9922

05 Jul 2023, 00:05

Delta Research wrote:
02 Jul 2023, 03:03
soviet9922 wrote:
02 Jul 2023, 01:58
The wax thing from the videos looks like to much work and doesn't seem to even fix the issue.
So ended up adding lithium grease to all switches just spraying it using the holes in the key steam, and all seems to be ok for me now.
Hope the grease will last longer, and will not have to disassemble the keyboard to clean and add more grease every 6 months.
Lithium grease is not safe on plastic, and waxboil mod does work in restoring binding and scratchiness. Anything based on petroleum will weaken plastic over time and can cause irreparable damage.
Looked at this video only: https://youtu.be/v-IF5VmDaMg and from the results got to that.
Already added the grease so if it goes bad and I have to replace the switches will try the wax thing.

soviet9922

05 Jul 2023, 00:10

browncow wrote:
02 Jul 2023, 10:22
how's the computer itself? it looks like something from Dolch, judging by the colourscheme, did it come with some guts or just the case? It's very interesting, what are your plans? Also the board is quite simmilar to an alps clone 19" rack board i got. I wonder if same company made these boards.
There's no branding on the luggable, the computer is complete but nonworking purchased it for a project. But started badly the computer arrived having heavy damage during transport and has been fixing the case that was all broken.
The touchpad doesn't work, and the screen is very dim seems to be very used, ordered a new LCD display and controller touchpad power supply (almost all the guts are going to be replaced).

Going to install a dual Pentium III and 2 voodoos that I have in SLI.
Have done this to another 3 similar luggables, and is a lot of fun.

Delta Research

05 Jul 2023, 01:36

soviet9922 wrote:
05 Jul 2023, 00:05
Delta Research wrote:
02 Jul 2023, 03:03
soviet9922 wrote:
02 Jul 2023, 01:58
The wax thing from the videos looks like to much work and doesn't seem to even fix the issue.
So ended up adding lithium grease to all switches just spraying it using the holes in the key steam, and all seems to be ok for me now.
Hope the grease will last longer, and will not have to disassemble the keyboard to clean and add more grease every 6 months.
Lithium grease is not safe on plastic, and waxboil mod does work in restoring binding and scratchiness. Anything based on petroleum will weaken plastic over time and can cause irreparable damage.
Looked at this video only: https://youtu.be/v-IF5VmDaMg and from the results got to that.
Already added the grease so if it goes bad and I have to replace the switches will try the wax thing.
Yeah, he didn't do it properly and that's why it didn't work effectively/at all. From my personal experience, it takes switches from scratchy and binding to pretty smooth. If the grease works fine for now you could run with it since it's a lot of effort to take the switches back apart and clean everything.

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