Best Ergonomic Keyboard and key layout for disabled user

[Rythh]

Hey everyone,
I have a disease that degenerates my muscles, and my hands are starting to take a toll from my love of programming. As a result, my keyboard setup needs to change, and the sooner the better. However, I have a few problems that aren't necessarily typical of every disabled user or sufferers of RSI.

I NEED a mechanical keyboard that does not require a lot of actuation force, because my fingers are especially weak. My pinky fingers in particular take a toll from the constant use of shift, ctrl, enter, etc. I was therefore thinking the Cherry MX Red keys are probably the best, but any advice here would be huge. The biggest factor in me getting a new keyboard is how tired my fingers are getting whilst coding for extended periods.

I need an ergonomic keyboard that will help keep my fingers and wrists from straining themselves while allowing me to type for extended periods of time. I am willing to spend what I have to on this, but with any luck I can find a perfect board for 100-300 dollars.

Finally, a related but somewhat separate issue that I really need advice on is the best keyboard layout for a programmer. I believe that at least some of my fatigue is a result of using the QWERTY layout, so any advice on the best key layout for programming would be highly appreciated.

So is there anyone else out there with weak hands that could tell me a bit about their experiences? Thanks for any help!

[rodtang]

Got a lot of money?

[Ascaii]

First, please let us know your location and whether you are using ANSI or UK ISO QWERTY.

You are one one of the rare species that might genuinely profit from the more specialized ergonomic keyboards...the absolute best would be a datahand, but those have become prohibitively expensive, the last one selling for 1900$ if I remember correctly. (picture above my post)
A less expensive choice, but still above your initial budget, would be the µTron with Topre capacitive switches and a split layout. http://www.amazon.co.jp/Personal-Media- ... B004BZ2TOA
Variations with Cherry switches that you could look into are the Kinesis Advantage(LF model available with MX Red) or a split Maltron.
links:
http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/advantage.htm
http://www.maltron.com/shop.html
Also, there is the g80-5000, but those tend to be more of a collectors item and get expensive quickly, especially in ANSI layout.



Are you having trouble with the force or the position primarily?
If you can still manage a regular typing position, you might find that a variable weight realforce is the way to go for you. They have lighter domes on the outer keys to put less strain on the pinkies and ringfingers. If you happen to be from the UK, the keyboard company might be a good place to start looking: http://www.keyboardco.com/

[Rythh]

Okay so to answer rodtang, no I do not have a lot of money haha, in fact my budget is hurting my pocketbook already. For something so important I could spend 500 or 600 (definitely not 1k-2k at this point, though I seriously wish I could), but with any luck at that pricepoint I can find a keyboard that seriously WOWs me and makes typing not so painful.

Ascaii, I am using ANSI QWERTY atm and I live on the East Coast of the United States. Switching from this to any other layout or style is perfectly fine by me, a learning curve is not a bad thing at all in my opinion, I expect it. To be honest about your last question, I really am not sure, I think the fatigue arises from a combination of both the force and the positioning. It may be the case that there is no keyboard out there to completely alleviate the fatigue as a result. I do feel, though, that the typical ANSI flat keyboard layout is not the best choice, so the Realforce kind of worries me.

Can you give me any more insight into which key I should use? You mention the Topre capacitive key, would that be better than a mechanical key perhaps?

[vivalarevolución]

The Kinesis Advantage Linear Feel is pretty low force and you can program it to any layout that you please (Drovak, Colemak, Maltron, whatever). It's $300, just within your budget. Also, you can program those pinky buttons, like shift, enter, tab and control, to the thumb clusters if you so please. I'm typing on it right now.

Maltron also is another option, usually cost $600, and you can get Maltron layout, which supposedly puts less strain on the fingers than the QWERTY layout. However, Maltron keyboards come standard with Cherry MX Black, with are not low force switches.

Also, have you considered the type of mouse you are using? I found that most of my typing pain resulted from my mouse rather than the keyboard. The keyboard just caused wrist pain.

[Ascaii]

I have not tried too many layouts, so I really can't help you with that, im a diehard ISO fan.
The Topre switch is or isnt mechanical, whomever you ask. They feel very consistent with the oneness of cup rubber. Its basically a super expensive capacitive rubber dome and it feels great. I have been hooked since I got my HHKB.

002 is currently running a sink list with a variable force realforce, you could join it and try the keyboard for a few days, all you need to do is pay shipping to the next in line. It is currently on a europe tour, but it will return to the us eventually. http://deskthority.net/try-before-you-b ... t2856.html

[Rythh]

I have certainly thought about my mouse and that is the next upgrade to be made. ATM I am using a Razer Tron ambidextrous mouse and it certainly causes me problems with no pinky tray, it's small size, and some other things. So yes, certainly an issue there. However, I am certain my keyboard is causing issue because of how much I use just the board. I am decently proficient at using only the keyboard to navigate my computers, so I can go for extended periods where I won't use my mouse. The finger fatigue remains, and gets sometimes unbearable when I get into a coding frenzy (which happens sort of frequently! ) On that note tho, do you have any mouse recommendations while we are at it?

The Advantage Linear Feel sounds excellent, might be just what I am looking for. Can you give me more information about how/why you use yours? Also, are there any advantages from one keyboard to the next? The maltron and Advantage seem very similar, so why is there such a price difference haha. It is also very hard to find information on that uTron with capacitive switches, and seems only to be in japan. Thanks so much for the help guys, really getting me information I need.

[RC-1140]

I use the Neo layout, which is absolutely fantastic for programming, especially the third layer, but it has two downsides. It's optimized for German in mind, so it has ÜÖÄ on layer one, which you probably won't need, and it contains some heavier modifier usage, so it isn't that pinky friendly.


And about the mouse stuff, you might want to try a trackball. CST L-Track or Kensington Slimblade are usually the best choices, but I like my trusty Kensington Orbit.

[CeeSA]

for work I would a recommend a programmable keyboard. I love to get a mass of phrases and makros out of the second layer. And it helps me to type less the same over and over again. Keyboards from Tipro or Access are very good programmable keyboards, but have the stronger Cherry MX Black switch inside.

Unfortunately I don't know any ergonomic programmable keyboard. Are you able to use software at you worklplace like Autohotkey?

Here is another ergonomic alternative http://www.trulyergonomic.com/store/index.php

What's about your legs/feet? You could put some pinky action (shift, return, etc.) to your feet. There a different kind of foodpedal possible.

[Rythh]

The reason I don't want a trackball is because it makes use of fingers as opposed to your arm. I prefer to use my entire arm so that my fingers can type longer. My feet and legs are even worse than my arms/hands, so I can't get any help there >.<

What do you guys mean by second and third layer, btw? And what do you tend to macro when programming?

My main point when getting this keyboard is the lowest actuation force I can manage, so cherry black is certainly out of the question. I wish there was a combination of the HHKB and an ergonomic layout, as those keys seem very easy on the fingers. I could use Autohotkey if the board I get isn't programmable.

[webwit]

Topre ergonomic keyboard:
http://deskthority.net/wiki/%CE%9CTRON

Expensive though, with shipping $600.

Topre takes 47g to actuate, Cherry Red just over 40, but Datahand around 20g.

[Rythh]

Okay so I definitely want to use Cherry Red keys, though the datahand seems like my perfect choice but is prohibitively expensive and I can't manage that. The Maltron keyboard seems to have nothing that the Advantage doesn't have, other than the Maltron layout (which I don't know if I necessarily want, seems like it wouldn't be a very portable typing scheme if I ever work away from the Maltron). Truly ergonomic seems like a good choice too, though I am not sure about the Cherry brown they use. Does anyone think that the Cherry Brown should be a deal breaker?

RC, I absolutely need something that is pinky friendly, my pinkys take the biggest beating.

[Rythh]

So it seems my best choices are the Truly Ergonomic and the Kinesis Advantage, any users of those boards have some insight into which might be a better choice?

[jesse]

I wonder if my current project keyboard would be reasonably useful for you.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/obra/84713 ... hotostream

With a layout that's a slightly evolved version of what I wrote up here:

http://blog.fsck.com/2013/01/pinkies-an ... brain.html

[suka]

From my own personal experiments with different keyboard layouts, both in arrangement of the letters and the hardware itself I have come to the following conclusions for myself:

Investing the time to learn a new layout pays off. Big time. If you're programming even more so. Period.
Getting a more ergonomic hardware setup is equally beneficial. Doing both at the same time might be irritating at first, but is not as bad as changing your setup several times in succession.

To elaborate on these to points a little: I am using AdNW, a layout that has been thoroughly optimized to minimize finger travel and collisions, and fares equally well for english text as well as german. There exist even minor alterations to it especially for matrix layouts with thumb keys like the TrulyErgonomic (BU-Teck) that I am also currently testing, but as they rely more heavily on the pinkies that is probably not beneficial to your specific condition.
Together with the 3rd and 4th layer of the Neo layout for special characters and navigation keys this setup is really a joy to type on even for prolonged periods of time.

On the hardware side of things, I determined two things to be absolutely necessary for any of my designs: Using the thumbs with at least three keys each (and more is not really necessary) leads to further ease of typing. And eliminating the absurd conventional stagger, be it either through two symmetric halves (good) or a split keyboard altogether (much better ).
Once you get used to selecting your layers (Shift, Programming and Navigation/Numpad on my right thumb; Control, Alt and Win on my left thumb) you will be amazed how you could ever type on anything else where you frequently need to leave the homerow or do wild stretches with your pinkies.
Plus all the other frequent keys from the pinkies, like Esc, Tab, Backspace or Return are also pulled right to the center, under the thumbs.

Now I have never typed on either the TECK or a Maltron/Kinesis myself personally, but from my own experiences I'd say that hand separation together with tenting are the major factors for a relaxed setup, so I would assume the latter being a little more advanced in that regard. With the recent developments in modifying the TECKs layout in firmware, however, that could be another selling point, together with its lower pricepoint. What I'd ultimately suggest to you for maximum flexibility in both directions (Layout and keyboard arrangement, that is) would be going for an ErgoDox spilt design with custom firmware. I think that it would provide you with the best possibilities to see what is the most comfortable position and layout for your specific needs.

During all my iterations of hardware prototyping I have always come back to comparing everything to my BlueCube split design since it seems perfect for me in every aspect, and I bet that as soon as the ErgoDox really gets some more traction you will hear many more supporters of these claims. I'd ultimately hope for some manufacturer to become bold enough to offer something overcoming the relicts of typewriter design still found in any keyboard today, but I fear that will remain a wish for quite some more time...

[Kaleb]

For lower-force actuation
Tom Tyler's MX switch spring surgery method is an option
if you can easily open the switch covers to get to
the springs & stems
(usually with pcb-mounted switches without LEDs).
MX Black or Red stems work best for this because
of the lack of a tactile bump.
(A tactile bump uses more force.)

Tim Tyler got down to 20g.
I did the same using stock MX Brown springs.
If you remove the 2 non-springy top & bottom of the spring
1st, and then proceed with spring surgery, it may be
possible to get down to 17.5g.

Tim Tyler then went away from MX switches to micro switches
because he wanted to keep the tactile feedback. His
custom built keyboard uses micro switches, not MX.

I stayed with MX switches.
Tactile feedback was not that important to me.
If you use lighter than stock springs, you can go lower...
15g, 12.5g, even 10g is possible.

Always verify that the remaining spring is strong enough
to open the leaf-spring contact when the switch is not
pressed. You can do this by visually verifying that you
can see a gap at the contact in the open position. If the
contact gap is too small, you will get switch sticking in
the unpressed position, so be careful. You have been warned!

I use Aqua's key test for testing.
I have found that adjusting MX switches for very low force
actuation is a very tedious time-consuming labor-intensive
activity. It is not what I call fun.

The switch will sit slightly lower than a stock switch.
The actuation point may get shorter.

Time Tyler said he spent ~3min per switch. My time spent per
switch was much much much greater. I'm probably slower, but
also it seems that the lower you go, the more danger of a
key sticking, and the longer it takes to adjust.

Low force switches are easier to press... however,
they are more easily accidentally pressed.
Multiple repeating keys can occur.
Resting your fingers on the switches in home position
may no longer be possible.

Low force is definitely not going to be for everyone.

[Kaleb]

This has 20g actuation. It does not use MX switches.
I think it uses membrane switches:

http://www.fentek-ind.com/split_magic.htm#.UgLiONJO8b8



Also, Kinesis says they _might_ have a MX switch version of the Freestyle coming out
in a few months, but so far that's just talk.

[terrpn]

pm'd