Advice on mice to stop RSI problems

[Multiple]

That seems like a juvenile shit advice to me, but allow me to explain why;

Cured mouse problems for me. I'm convinced that most ergonomic mice are placebos, which actually tend to work because of an introduced side effect: variation. Variation is not only a valid cure against RSI - it is taking the problem at its roots. But sticking at one solution will probably not work. I like to switch sides. It's just as effective as getting a new, expensive device, and it's free. Works for me because I'm not a gamer, and ctrl_c/v isn't a problem (on the right side too, you move your hand from and to the keyboard). Also there's Shift+Ins and stuff. The biggest problem I found to be finding symmetrical mice of acceptable quality.

It's hard to predict what induces stress for everyone and when. Being able to select copy past fragments quickly was it for me. My case probably irrelevant for many, so you're right, variation is surely a cure. Your comment bothered me though for a long time, as if that was it, changing sides...What if scrolling or clicking is the main cause of problem, why not suggest a mouse with less resistance to do so. There are mice with basically no resistance in the scrolling wheels (hey, you're not excessively scrolling 9gag while you'd be working or something are you?), and the same for clicking. I just don't see how the wrist could be the cause of problems with modern mice, even if so, the cure ought to be increasing the sensitivity so it doesn't have to move so much.

[webwit]

What if scrolling or clicking is the main cause of problem.

Then if you use both hands you reduce the strain on a single hand by 50%. I don't think there is an ergonomic pointing device which reduces the strain by 50% when used by the same problematic hand/wrist.

[hoggy]

Not forgetting that it probably took a few years to develop problems in one wrist, meaning that it will will take about the same amount of time to develop problems in the other. Gives you a bit of wriggle room to find a better mouse.

I do find it a bit worrying that there are so few ways of getting a mouse pointer from one side of the screen to another. I think the golden age of ergonomic keyboards was around 1992, I don't think the same has happened for mice yet.

[Mrinterface]

Funny how I found this thread revived...

Update : my wife does not have RSI problems anymore.

What she did : she stopped using her index finger on her mouse. She now presses the left mouse button with her middle finger ( she is a righty by nature ). We hope the RSI complaints won't start on that finger as well, but for now it seems to be a solution for her problem.

Maybe this could help others trying to cope with the same problem.

[Multiple]

What if scrolling or clicking is the main cause of problem.

Then if you use both hands you reduce the strain on a single hand by 50%. I don't think there is an ergonomic pointing device which reduces the strain by 50% when used by the same problematic hand/wrist.

Just an example, Logitech Performance MX have a scroll wheel that uses momentum. For long documents you just give it a flick and it will keep scrolling by itself until it's stopped. A lot easier on the fingers than using a regular scrolling wheel.

[pyro]

You could also put lighter switches in the mouse. I just replaced the Omron D2FC-F-7N in my Logitech G9 with D2F-F, which need less force to actuate (75gf. My guess is the original ones needed 150gf). I've yet to see if they last as long as the original (5 years), I definitely like them better.

[Caps Lock]

Consider to accompany the mouse with a reasonable trackpad like the GlidePoint or a Magic Trackpad. Both can be configured to click with a light tap of the fingertip (no need to apply the pressure to actuate a switch). Or elsy try a MagicMouse which sports similar funcionality (it has got a multi touch sensitive surface). Windows drivers might be obtained separately for the Apple products, however.

[Limmy]

I had the same problem with my right index finger. I switched the switches to Omron D2F-01F and problems went away. The previous one was also an Omron switch but with different part number, D2FC-F-7N, however the difference in feel is pretty noticeable.

D2F-01F switch is made in Japan and it has longer travel distance and there is more room to press down after it clicks. This enables you to learn to stop pressing once switch clicks. The other part D2FC-F-7N is made in China and it has shorter travel distance and higher actuation force(by about 15g more) both of which are not good for your fingers. More required force and shorter travel distance makes it almost impossible to stop pressing the button beyond point of click, which makes your finger to slam on hard non-giving surface. Tap your fingers onto hard surface you will feel similar pain.

D2FC-F-7N usually go by OmCha (Omron switch from China) in Korea. The switches are usually found in Logitech mouse and many others. Whenever I find this switch in my mouse, I almost always swap the Omron switch with Japanese one(D2F-01F). Replacing the switches reduces strain on my right index finger by a huge margin. The only Logitech mouse that I found stock switches to be usable was G9, which has slightly different mouse design.

[Icarium]

Hey Limmy, would you post a little tutorial on that? Which mouse did you use? Where did you get the switches?

[Limmy]

It depends all on which mouse you have. This mod involves desodering and soldering. The parts can be ordered from mouser or digikey. I have modded Logitech G700, Razer Mamba, Razer Lachesis, Razer Habu, and Razer Copperhead(failed mod, it was my first time desoldering..)

Here are some disassembly pics from my most recent mods:
G700 - http://www.kbdmania.net/xe/2857366
Mamba - http://www.kbdmania.net/xe/1152916
Lachesis - http://www.kbdmania.net/xe/929368

Here are some comparison pics between Chinese and Japanese Omron switches.
http://www.kbdmania.net/xe/2861723

If you have hard time browsing KBDMania try this method:
http://www.kbdmania.net/xe/4835717

[trax]

What about the Magic Trackpad?

I used to have wrist pain when using a steelseries xai. I think it was because my hands where to big.

[nodnerb]

I have used the 3m ergonomic mouse (buttons are thumb-based) and more recently the Zalman FPSGun (because it has a scroll wheel). The trigger button on the FPSGun are very different to normal mouse buttons. I can very highly recommend both mice .

The vertical hand position helps me a lot with wrist pain. Pointing not quite as accurate as a traditional mouse, though.

[MMTE]

This is a long thread, so I'll confess now that I've not read all of it. But I did register an account in order to reply

I did a research project on this topic several years ago. My interest came from experiencing RSI after my first computer-based essay assignment as an undergraduate.

Back then the first thing I did was change my keyboard to the Dvorak layout. It only took me a few days to retrain. These days I would recommend Colemak over Dvorak as I found the it to easy to mix up vowels with the Dvorak layout. That said, switching did solve my problem with the keyboard.

A while later I began experiencing RSI from my mouse. I must be susceptible to it or something. I have used a 3M Ergonomic mouse for many years now. I keep one at home and one at work. They really are brilliant. As someone else said there's no scroll wheel, but I only find this inconvenient in some specialist software that I use.

A proper wrist rest will do wonders. I don't mean a foam or gel wrist rest, I mean something like that on the SteelSeries 7G or Maltron Executive keyboard. Try a small catalogue in front of your keyboard to see the difference.

Some people prefer laptop keys which only have 2mm travel rather than the usual 4mm on desktop keyboards, though 4mm is "supposed" to be better for your fingers.

[colemann]

I have found relief from a device called the MouseBar. I know a couple others who like it very much and swear by it. For some people it is too bulky and just "in the way," but I know that it has brought genuine relief to some. You can get more info on it at http://inputdataproducts.com

[Icarium]

Fancy stuff. Can you elaborate a bit on what the advantage is compared to just moving the mouse/keyboard further away from you on the desk? Seems like it would achieve the same thing, more space to lie down your arm.

[NewGuy]

I have found relief from a device called the MouseBar. I know a couple others who like it very much and swear by it. For some people it is too bulky and just "in the way," but I know that it has brought genuine relief to some. You can get more info on it at http://inputdataproducts.com

I think this must depend on what kind of pains you are experiencing. (presumably shoulder) This looks like it completely restricts arm movement, and strongly encourages using wrist movements to control the mouse. It also appears to put pressure directly onto your wrist, which you should never do.

You should never use a wrist-rest - use a palm-rest if you must - and you are best not to use anything that restricts your forearm movement at all with a mouse. As MMTE suggested, something deep like the Steelseries 7G (but for mice) might be quite good though.

This is because it doesn't really act as a wrist rest, but rather just raises your hand up to a more suitable level, reducing the upwards angle of your wrist.

I've seen pads that stick onto the back of your mouse to do this, but I have no experience with them. I have read reports that they people stop twisting their wrist when mousing, and it puts the hand into a more relaxed position though.


Has anyone here tried the Contour Mouse? That's the next thing I'm thinking of giving a shot. (the Mouse Bean is cheap, but not readily available here)

[colemann]

Well, for me it was a general pain in the "heel" area of the palm of my right hand (my mouse hand), which radiated upward into my elbow and shoulder. The pain centered in the heel of my hand, and the real relief came from the fact that the MouseBar elevated my hand up off of the desk.

As for "putting pressure on my wrist," I don't really know what you're talking about there. For me it is no problem. The thing supports my whole forearm, and the relief to the heel of my hand cannot be over stated.

There is no restriction of forearm movement, though I can see how that might be a problem for some people. The key seems to be that concentrated motion within a very narrow range of motion can become problematic for any joint.

I have my mouse gain set pretty high, because I definitely do not want to be rowing the thing across my desk with elbow flexions, and, yes, I use my wrist exclusively, though lateral motions like these cause me no problems at all.

I have also found that varying the height of my chair and my desk (I have a cool powered drafting table) has helped a lot.

But as for the whole "pressure on the wrist" thing -- not a factor. Plus, I would never use a palm rest. Think about it: the desk is a palm rest. In my case, I needed to get the pressure off of my palm, and this is what the MouseBar did for me.

[Django2donat]

I think most ergonomic mice are a scam and only "work" because you are holding the mouse different. Everything which is different will work, because of the words behind the RSI acronym, until that starts too hurt too of course. The main thing is not to be a non-moving blob and sit in the same exact position while moving/resting your hands in the same way for hours each day.

Is there an actual reason you're looking for an ergonomic mouse, or is it just a desire for comfort?

[Archie]

I'm wondering since when a desire for comfort isn't an actual reason...