CM Storm Xornet Refresh? Any feedback/suggestions?

[davkol]

Yup. It's only that the frame is a part of the button (which shouldn't wiggle in the first place, but that's a different story).

BTW about the ambidextrous mouse I've mentioned before, Roccat Lua is worth looking into. I might write a review with some sort of comparison with xornet and savu.

[Bramster]

Yup. It's only that the frame is a part of the button (which shouldn't wiggle in the first place, but that's a different story).

BTW about the ambidextrous mouse I've mentioned before, Roccat Lua is worth looking into. I might write a review with some sort of comparison with xornet and savu.

Alright sure... Be sure to pass me the link so I can check it out! About ambidextrous we do have the Recon (but thats not a small mouse like the Xornet ..)

[the1onewolf]

Upgrade the sensor . That's pretty much it.
No to leds and braided cable. I think those defeat the purpose of this reliable "entry" series mouse

[zone03]

Hey DT guys,

Here I am again with a idea which I would love some input on!

In our current mouse line-up we have a entry level mouse; the Xornet. We are thinking of a refresh of this model since it has been around for quite some time. And we were wondering if you guys had any feedback for us on it.. Keep in mind it is targeted as a entry level mouse. Current MSRP (manufacturer's suggested retail price) is 19,9 EURO

http://www.cmstorm.com/en/products/peripherals/Xornet/

A couple of questions about if we do a refresh;
- change nothing; mouse and spec is still OK at current price point. Keep price similar as it is now!
- Upgrade sensor? Pixart 3310? Avago 3988? Others? (price will increase)
- add braided cable? (price will increase)
- add LED effects? Logo, name and scroll wheel. (price will increase)
- flat PVC cable with gold plated connector? (price will increase)
- use different texture material for top? (price will increase)

What do you guys would like to see a maximum price for a entry level mouse? And for that price, what upgrades would you like to see for this little mouse?

Thanks guys, don't hesitate to comment, every single feedback is welcome!

-upgrade the sensor if the avago s3988 the same as in the da2013 it's okay, although it's too old for this current gen since the pixart 3310 show up..and use IR Led
-braided cable only if it's flexible enough, idk like the kana v2 maybe?
-the spawn v2 can use some led, i think the xornet doesn't need it since it's an "entry level"
-change the colour scheme to black for the surface, and white for the writing/logo, and make sure they don't come off because of sweat (bad experience with kana v2)

[Bramster]

-upgrade the sensor if the avago s3988 the same as in the da2013 it's okay, although it's too old for this current gen since the pixart 3310 show up..and use IR Led
-braided cable only if it's flexible enough, idk like the kana v2 maybe?
-the spawn v2 can use some led, i think the xornet doesn't need it since it's an "entry level"
-change the colour scheme to black for the surface, and white for the writing/logo, and make sure they don't come off because of sweat (bad experience with kana v2)

Thank you very much sir for this feedback !!

Upgrade the sensor . That's pretty much it.
No to leds and braided cable. I think those defeat the purpose of this reliable "entry" series mouse

Thank you too, Xornet is indeed aiming as a 'entry' level mouse ..

[Andrea]

Are there any updates about the rev.2 of the Xornet ? When will it be released ?

I'd really like to have the possibility to remap buttons, just like the Spawn (not available in Europe), because I think that's the main feature that a "gaming" mouse should have.
Also I don't change dpi very often and I'd remap those two buttons to something else

For the others suggestions I think that 3090 optical sensor should be fine!

[Siamese Almeida]

I owned the Spawn for a while and I liked everything about the mouse except for the shape. It was an almost perfect mouse for me because of it's short length, low height and flatness. The fact that I had to stretch out my pinky to envelop the whole thing is what led me to return the mouse eventually. The mouse forced me to grip with my pinky instead of the ring finger which just sat there awkwardly in the small indent created for it, preventing fine control.

Perhaps I don't belong in this thread for this reason, but I wish there was a manufacturer that understood how high the demand for a good fingertip mouse is. I'm not the only one. People are actually going out of their way to order the Krait 2013 from Asia because it's the only high performance optical mouse that's:

1) Narrow.
2) Doesn't insist on having a huge fat butt that gets in the way of fast wrist swipes.

Spawn/Xornet is almost perfect, as stated. This is why I'm posting here. The mouse ends in a short stump instead of the usual extending butt that's only designed so the palm can dig into it which is what claw and palm grippers want and fingertip grippers actively avoid. Thsi is perfect. Unfortunately, the mouse is extremely wide which prevents fine control for those who grip with their ring finger. For this, a \_/ frontal shape is preferred which the Storm/Xornet offers, but only for the thumb, on the left side.

So, in other words:



This may seem absurd at first glance, but I guarantee you that a lot of people want something a like this. Perhaps this exact shape would be slightly uncomfortable -- in fact, I can already tell the right side buttons would be a major nuisance -- but it's just a rough approximate, after all.

I've since bought the Recon and I've tried to get used to it, but it's just not happening. Still too wide, the butt actively gets in the way and the mouse is way too high. It's definitely not a "Spawn/Xornet, only ambidextrous" that I hoped it would be. I gave it to my father who likes it and my search continues.

As for the Xornet as it is right now, I'd definitely suggest two things:

1) *DO* go for the 3310. If not for the Xornet, then do it for the Spawn. Xornet and Spawn are both very specialized mice and people interested in buying their "first gaming mouse" don't really trust the awkward blobby shape on offer. Either because it looks strange and they'd prefer something more stylish or toylike, or because they don't want to adapt to a very specific grip required to operate these. So yes, I think most people who bought the Xornet and Spawn are already experienced. They are the kind of people who do not mind shelling out extra if it means getting a better sensor.

2) Get rid of the printed title on the right side. Gives the mouse a sort of '90s "sports gear" look which is no longer popular.

I'd suggest you avoid braiding the cable. It's become one of those completely unnecessary "you have to have it because others do" features that only jack the price and offer no real benefit. It's a fad, really. People who somehow manage to destroy their cables because they're not braided will likely fray their braided cables and then complain about that instead. Also, avoid adding any LEDs because that would only increase the weight of the mouse. I understand why LEDs are there and while I like to think people won't buy a mouse just because it's shiny, I take one look at Sensei and how popular it is and my cynical side concludes it's likely because of the customizable LED gimmick.

[CeeSA]

Rumors say the Xornet Refresh will use the P3307 sensor...
That would be for me already disappointment if you not fix the known low PCS (PerfectControlSpeed)of the P3305.

Is the 3310 so much more expensive than the P3305/07?

[Bramster]

Rumors say the Xornet Refresh will use the P3307 sensor...
That would be for me already disappointment if you not fix the known low PCS (PerfectControlSpeed)of the P3305.

Is the 3310 so much more expensive than the P3305/07?

A possible Xornet V2 (if to come) will not use a P3307

I owned the Spawn for a while and I liked everything about the mouse except for the shape. It was an almost perfect mouse for me because of it's short length, low height and flatness. The fact that I had to stretch out my pinky to envelop the whole thing is what led me to return the mouse eventually. The mouse forced me to grip with my pinky instead of the ring finger which just sat there awkwardly in the small indent created for it, preventing fine control.

Nice to see that you made that picture but dont u think and agree one of the unique things of the Xornet and Spawn is the unique shape these two have? And good stuff to see the other feedback you give! Thanks for that

Are there any updates about the rev.2 of the Xornet ? When will it be released ?

I'd really like to have the possibility to remap buttons, just like the Spawn (not available in Europe), because I think that's the main feature that a "gaming" mouse should have.
Also I don't change dpi very often and I'd remap those two buttons to something else

For the others suggestions I think that 3090 optical sensor should be fine!

A V2 model has passed our minds here at CM but I cannont officially annouch a V2 model yet so also not any release date as you understand! Thanks for your button remapping and sensor feedback !

[naweo]

To add up to the cm-storm and xornet uniqueness, you can make a lid below the mouse that allows you to attach/detach a "rest" to the mouse, and when unused making it a regular mouse. This makes some versatility.

[Siamese Almeida]

Nice to see that you made that picture but dont u think and agree one of the unique things of the Xornet and Spawn is the unique shape these two have?

Of course. This is why I've recommended it to one of my friends who fell in love with it and still uses it exclusively.

I'm just attempting to hijack the thread because, well, since CM had the balls to do such an oddball mouse to cater to a specific crowd, I'm hoping you guys will do one to cater to us, the fingertip crowd. I'm kinda effectively mouseless until that happens. I really wish I could have at least liked the Recon better.

Oh and, keep releasing white mice. Recon looks really good in white. Matched my white 690II really well to boot.

[halven]

None of the stuff you mentioned is necessary, IMHO (LEDs, gold-plated cables, etc. do nothing but increase the price). Omron switches and good optical sensor, that's the important stuff. Shape is very nice as it is, I'd prefer a slightly smaller one, but I'm sure that's just me.

Would it be possible to increase the reliability of the mouse wheel? My scroll wheel broke after just a little more than a year's usage, and after taking the mouse apart, I can't say I'm surprised at all.

Spoiler:

Very thin and flimsy plastic turning what I assume is a rotary encoder, no surprise at all that it would break eventually. Perhaps use something sturdier or an optical encoder like in Logitech mice (that thing won't break even if you scroll it nonstop for a year).

[vinzbe]

Mouse Wheel:

Isn't Logitech more or less the only company using optical encoders?

I don't know about the Xornet but the wheel on the Spawn has a very good feel.

I was never really fond of the wheels on Logitech mice, with the exception of "free mode" for browsing.

Still I encountered problems on the 2 Spawns I used.

The first one had a very stiff MOUSE3. The second one had a loosely attached wheel that prevented the wheel to connect properly to the encoder. So I had to put some tape around the axis on the left side of the wheel so that it gets pushed against the encoder.


DPI buttons:

I use the DPI buttons on the Spawn often but NEVER to change DPI. I really prefer to use these instead of side buttons that are out of the equation when playing an FPS but also for browsing.

If the embedded "keyboard emulation" with stored settings costs to much for the targeted price it would still be nice to allow some cheap way to use those 2 buttons for something else on the Xornet.

Cable

Don't use braided cables. They are stiff and protect nothing. I used many mice and the only time a mouse cable failed for me was with a g9 (braided).

Shape

Nice to see that you made that picture but dont u think and agree one of the unique things of the Xornet and Spawn is the unique shape these two have? And good stuff to see the other feedback you give! Thanks for that

I agree that the shape is very unique but it's not only about the ring finger. The small length is also significant.

[auuq]

I play Counter-Strike:Global Offensive at a fairly high level, and these are my two main complaints:

First of all... Please move the dpi buttons further away from the scroll wheel! It's ridiculous how close they are.

It has happened multiple times that I accidentally press the higher-dpi-button when I need to do a jump fast (mouse wheel down), which results in a short moment of total panic before getting killed.

Second issue is the tracking on certain mouse pads. I have been using the Xornet with Qpad UC for a while, but wanted to try the CM Speed RX (which is supposed to be optimized for optical mice). I used it for a couple of days before I noticed that the tracking was way worse than with my old Qpad. Moving the mouse too quick would result in uncontrolled movement, mostly to the point where I would just aim at the ground.

Besides these two problems, a great mouse!

[Elrick]

A possible Xornet V2 (if to come) will not use a P3307

A V2 model has passed our minds here at CM but I cannont officially annouch a V2 model yet so also not any release date as you understand!

So what has happened because months ago I came here to read up on what your company is doing, thus far it seems you've done sweet FA on this ?

I suspect with your timeline I may hit my late 60's before you guys decide to update the Xornet or the Spawn in any way. Pity you're not like Logitech to actually produce something for their customers within a decent time-frame.

[CM Pim]

A possible Xornet V2 (if to come) will not use a P3307

A V2 model has passed our minds here at CM but I cannont officially annouch a V2 model yet so also not any release date as you understand!

So what has happened because months ago I came here to read up on what your company is doing, thus far it seems you've done sweet FA on this ?

I suspect with your timeline I may hit my late 60's before you guys decide to update the Xornet or the Spawn in any way. Pity you're not like Logitech to actually produce something for their customers within a decent time-frame.

Hi Elrick,

I will check if we 'can' release additional information tomorrow (European Time).

EDIT: we are busy with the refresh, aiming for 2015. I will let you know if there is any further update.

[jacktrades]

Upgrade the sensor,
Maybe center its location, or move it forward a bit,
Make the scroll wheel more durable, also seal better that area if possible, to prevent lint, dust and the like to enter so easily.
Do something about the rattling DPI buttons.
Thinner and more flexible cable
Take the screws from under the teflon feet, move them under the sticker or elsewhere.
Maintain current shape/dimensions

[Hypersphere]

I have not used this mouse. All I can offer is that my all-time favorite mouse is the Razer Deathadder Black Edition. Some things I like about the DA Black:

+ Excellent scroll wheel that also acts as an excellent, easy to press middle button.

+ Excellent surface that is smooth and always feels dry, even after prolonged intensive use. I suspect the surface is PBT; I wrote to Razer and they said that the composition is proprietary. In contrast, I have tried various mice with rubberized coatings or smooth surfaces of some other composition, and none of them feel nearly as good as the surface of the DA Black.

BTW, I tried the 2013 edition of the DA black and they had ruined the feel of the original. The original is out of stock, but I was able to get a couple extras through Asian markets.

[Findecanor]

+ Excellent scroll wheel that also acts as an excellent, easy to press middle button.

I have never tried a scroll wheel/middle button that is easy to press without scrolling by mistake. Super-annoying if you, like me, are used to opening links in multiple tabs with middle-click. (I removed the wheel from my mouse ...)
Is there something special to it in your mouse?

Otherwise, some ideas that have been floating around for the middle button.
- Lock the scrollwheel when the button is pressed. Either mechanically (steading it) or electronically (switching it off).
- Separate middle button. Preferably programmable. Could be difficult to design a placement that is as comfortable as left or right button, though.
- Slant the mouse more (which is more ergonomic) and place the scrollwheel at the thumb so that you would scroll by moving the thumb up and down.
- Remove the scrollwheel completely and instead have a virtual scrollwheel that is activated by holding a button and moving the mouse like a joystick (inspired by scrolling in ghostview in X11/Unix).

[the1onewolf]

I will check if we 'can' release additional information tomorrow (European Time).

EDIT: we are busy with the refresh, aiming for 2015. I will let you know if there is any further update.

Oh neat. So a bit off-topic.
When are you guys releasing the (revised) alcor in the US =P
I've waiting on this since last year (when you guys leaked it with the novatouch)

Need to fulfill my IME 3 inspired crush.

[AliveNoMore]

Hopefully the rep is still watching this thread. Registered here to write this.

In my opinion the Xornet should be basic but solid mouse.

Most important things are:
- the sensor: upgrade to the ADNS-3310;
- the switches: the current ones are fine;
- the build quality: it should be as solid as possible, the mouse and its buttons should not feel flimsy (as the top ones currently do a little), the coating should be as durable as possible and not peel away (as it did on my Spawn);
- the shape: current one is fine, maybe make it very slightly thinner;
- the rubberized sides: keep them, as they are fine.

I myself would be willing to sacrifice some or even all of the extra 4 buttons (top and side) to achive the above mentioned goals and keep price at an acceptable level for an entry mouse.

Braided/flat cables are unnecessary. Gold plaited USB connectors are extremely unnecessary. And, for the love of humanity, don't add any LEDs. Basically, keep/make the mouse simple, durable and stlyish. That last part implies keeping the color - black.

[Elrick]

Hopefully the rep is still watching this thread. Registered here to write this.

Basically, keep/make the mouse simple, durable and stlyish. That last part implies keeping the color - black.

Exactly, we are still waiting for a no frills mouse with no disco LEDS blaring away or any offensively horrible bright colours applied anywhere on the housing.

Desperately want an all BLACK demon mouse (non-asian style) that delivers with basic ergonomics for an average handed person. Do not make a mouse for tiny munchkins or giants because if you want CM to be taken seriously in the world of input devices start producing something that proves you're listening and make it relevant because this market is already crowded to the extreme and it needs a company to make 'mice' a serious issue once again.

Don't only leave it to Razer and Logitech to beat you guys to a pulp, when it comes to releasing REAL gaming mice .

[AliveNoMore]

Well, it would be difficult beating Logitech or Razer since they are biggest names. However, what CM (Storm) can do is offer a better value for money, or more accurately continue to do so. Logitech and Razer might be good but they are overpriced, a portion of the price is just for the brand name.

In any case, what CM Storm did, which no (or very few) manufacturer(s) has/have done is, offer a mouse specifically designed for claw grip. Every other manufacturer has either entirely palm-gripped mice or ergonomic palm or ambidextrous mice that can work with claw or fingertip grip but were not specifically designed for it.
Yes, I know most gamers are palm-grippers but there are quite a few claw/fingertip-grippers who need a product that is designed for them, and not have to feel like an afterthought.
That's why I love the Spawn and Xornet, they tried to fill that niche.
Just listen to the people, improve on the mice where needed and don't bother with pointless features that appeal only to little kids and/or wannabe gamers. A true gamer doesn't care about flashiness and stuff like that, a true gamer cares about performance, functionality and quality.

Also, any information on the chances of a refresh of the Xornet and/or Spawn will be appreciated. How likely is it that we will get a refresh of these mice? When(a rough estimate like Qx 201x will be good enough)?

[sorijealut]

edit:

[the1onewolf]

Oh make it come in red
If it comes in red I'll definitely buy it ... unless you send me a sample

[\/\/oll3]

Altough it is quite evil, but for starters, what about making your own ID?

Also the Productlineup needs some streamlining.

I am late to the party and altough the thread in itself is quite silly i´ll contribute to it:

I would put Xornet not into the low end but into the low/mid end like this:

-Switches can stay the same, or ones with a better pricepoint, for everything other than M1/2
-PMW 3320
-no more encore V(for everything), F100 Series from ST would be a good Option, easier and maybe even cheaper.
-Cable doesnt matter that much, altough you can take a look at Abyssus for a good low end reference
-illuminated Logo and Wheel, simply because others do it too
-keep it in black or another neutral colour
-RSP 39.99$, just because why not, look at your competitors

Then a cheap ambidextrous mouse with PAW 3307(and please never use that horrible 3509 again),it is apparently SoC, so there shouldnt go anything wrong with firmwares(huu hue), practically standalone Octane, make a combo with some rubberdome for same pricepoint as now.

Mizar updated with 3988(because more CPI, more FPS, "more Marketing" than 3310), not sure when 3366 is a realistic possibility, maybe update later again.

Featurebomber with at least A9800, which you already have, i would rather stick with Reaper than with Havoc.

Last but not least, do the ID yourself or improve upon what you already have, if possible.

[Bramster]

Altough it is quite evil, but for starters, what about making your own ID?

Also the Productlineup needs some streamlining.

I am late to the party and altough the thread in itself is quite silly i´ll contribute to it:

I would put Xornet not into the low end but into the low/mid end like this:

-Switches can stay the same, or ones with a better pricepoint, for everything other than M1/2
-PMW 3320
-no more encore V(for everything), F100 Series from ST would be a good Option, easier and maybe even cheaper.
-Cable doesnt matter that much, altough you can take a look at Abyssus for a good low end reference
-illuminated Logo and Wheel, simply because others do it too
-keep it in black or another neutral colour
-RSP 39.99$, just because why not, look at your competitors

Then a cheap ambidextrous mouse with PAW 3307(and please never use that horrible 3509 again),it is apparently SoC, so there shouldnt go anything wrong with firmwares(huu hue), practically standalone Octane, make a combo with some rubberdome for same pricepoint as now.

Mizar updated with 3988(because more CPI, more FPS, "more Marketing" than 3310), not sure when 3366 is a realistic possibility, maybe update later again.

Featurebomber with at least A9800, which you already have, i would rather stick with Reaper than with Havoc.

Last but not least, do the ID yourself or improve upon what you already have, if possible.

Haha you sure have given our lineup a thurough look, thanks for the feedback tho

[Elrick]

Haha you sure have given our lineup a thurough look, thanks for the feedback tho

That's the problem here, too much discussion and absolutely NOTHING to show for it.

Get the feeling here that no matter how many people chime in to HELP you in making a brilliant product you just duck off to the back shed with your accountants and let them design the mouse. You know how that will go, make everything as CHEAP as possible from obsolete parts, then package it up in an expensive box trying desperately to fool everyone with it's so-called 'BRILLIANT' performance.

The REAL information will be released onto the market by some mouse obsessive here on this forum and they will let everyone know what CM was doing, either they'll say they have listened to us here or they produced another failed 'Havoc' abortion device.

Time is running out because you start pushing back the release date on this whilst all your competitors have moved on with advanced sensors and features. Don't end up like BST and release a product way past it's due date, amongst a crowded field of excellence within input devices.

[Bramster]

Haha you sure have given our lineup a thurough look, thanks for the feedback tho

That's the problem here, too much discussion and absolutely NOTHING to show for it.

Get the feeling here that no matter how many people chime in to HELP you in making a brilliant product you just duck off to the back shed with your accountants and let them design the mouse. You know how that will go, make everything as CHEAP as possible from obsolete parts, then package it up in an expensive box trying desperately to fool everyone with it's so-called 'BRILLIANT' performance.

The REAL information will be released onto the market by some mouse obsessive here on this forum and they will let everyone know what CM was doing, either they'll say they have listened to us here or they produced another failed 'Havoc' abortion device.

Time is running out because you start pushing back the release date on this whilst all your competitors have moved on with advanced sensors and features. Don't end up like BST and release a product way past it's due date, amongst a crowded field of excellence within input devices.

Oh sorry you have this feeling but I hope the NovaTouch is also a product that shows that we as CM DO listen to the communities as many other products in the past also (ex. Rapid).

But for this Xornet, I cannot say something about this at this stage but I hope in the future you can see some of the result of all the feedback provided

[Patsy02]

[quote="CM Bram"][/quote]

Maybe a bit late to the party, but here goes:

Please don't change what makes the Xornet what it is, there are very few mice out there like it. The only other product I've seen that comes close to the Xornet/Spawn form and size, that I know of, is the Logitech G9. I feel like the vast majority of gaming mice are variations of these two general shapes:

The asymmetric thumb rest shape with a large bottom surface area:



The symmetrical hourglass shape:



I hold by gripping it between my thumb and pinky for horizontal movement, and touching(not resting!) my ring finger for vertical movement. All movement is done with my fingers, and my wrist is resting on the mouse pad, almost completely still. Now, I fell in love with the Xornet for the following reasons:

- The mouse doesn't get wider towards the bottom, meaning I can use my fingers to grip the entirety of the mouse without having to grip it in at less ergonomic locations, and without having to rest them anywhere.

- no annoying thumb rest(why would would you rest your thumb if you're claw gripping the mouse?)

- It's short, meaning there's no dead weight, and the back of the mouse doesn't bump into my palm when I move the mouse vertically.

- It's light weight, so movement using my fingers is almost effortless.

- The ring finger spot is great. I call it a spot instead of a rest, because I don't really rest my ring finger on it, it's part of the overall grip.

- DPI changer is very nice for such a low price

- No performance issues whatsoever with the sensor. I have pretty much zero knowledge about about sensors though, but still.

- The value for money is unrivaled

Those are the good parts, here's some critique:

- My mouse wheel started getting dodgy after 14 months or so. More spongy, occasionally missing a click due to spongyness. Mind you, it still lasted longer than my £65 Razer mouse, so maybe I'm too demanding

- The three DPI stages are ideal for my use, but I can imagine a lot of people would be interested in more, or different DPI stages.

Overall, I'm far more precise with this mouse than i am with any other mouse that I've tried because of its shape. As for the negative parts, I'm aware that the Spawn might be better, but I can't find it anywhere in my country(Norway). Buying it from the US probably isn't worth it when I already have the Xornet at my disposal.