Kensington Expert Mouse on the way

[Trev]

I'm quite happy with my Zowie AM mouse, but have always wanted to try a trackball. I managed to nab one for a good price.

I have a feeling it'll only take a few days to determine if I love or hate this thing

[002]

O hai Trev
Interested to hear your verdict. Do keep us posted!

[Trev]

Considering Topre pretty much killed off my keyboard hobby, I've moved on to trying to improve/replace perfectly good mice Hopefully I'll be fondling some Kensington balls by next week.

[Hypersphere]

Considering Topre pretty much killed off my keyboard hobby, I've moved on to trying to improve/replace perfectly good mice Hopefully I'll be fondling some Kensington balls by next week.

Do you remain content, albeit underwhelmed, by your RF87u?

As for me, I still like my HHKB Pro 2, mainly for its form factor and layout. I had been alternating between it and my IBM SSK, but more recently, I discovered IBM capacitive buckling spring switches, and now I am using an IBM XT as my daily driver. The XT has the most impressive feel of any keyboard I have tried to date, but it is noisy, and I recall that you prefer silent keyboards.

Regarding mice, the best mouse I have ever used is the Razer DeathAdder Black Edition. As you can tell from the name, it is targeted to gamers, which I am not, but I find it a great all-purpose mouse. One of the many things I like about it is that its surface always feels dry, even after prolonged intensive use.

[Trev]

I only became more impressed with the 87U over time. It feels like a refined version of the HHKB Type-S (which I sold). I smash on this thing all day, every day. I don't think anything can come close to Topre, but I wish there was more options in the market. I tried buckling-spring years ago, it's simply far too noisy for me to ever consider. If I couldn't have the RF, I'd use something with ergo-clears like my Poker and DSA key-set.

I've liked Razor's mouse offerings, but I've had several of them fail. That really turned me off of the brand. The Zowie AM seems more reliable. Nicer (optical) sensor too for pixel work too.

[Muirium]

What weighting of Realforce did you get, again? (Variable? Uniform 55g? I'm not even sure if there's a choice for the silenced version, actually.) And did you ever escape the tyranny of the bubble Windows keys?

My eyes say the HHKB is the downright winner. The Realforces just aren't as nice, in layout, legends or bulk. But I've only had a few borrowed days with either keyboard. Although this Novatouch, meanwhile…

http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/top ... ph#p157451

But, yes, mice! How do you like your balls? Big and heavy, surely?? The picture suggests so!

[Hypersphere]

Trev, which version of RF 87u do you have? Is it the silent version, which also has the variable weight keys? I have considered the RF boards, but they don't quite have the right combination for me. From what I have read, and based on my experience with Topre switches in the Leopold FC660C and HHKB Pro 2, I think I would want all-55g silent switches, which RF does not make. I would also want the black case with the gray/white keycaps and substitute keycaps in place of the Windows bubble keys. This is doable, but it would require getting an extra board for the keycaps and using some blanks from a HHKB keycap set to replace the Windows keys.

I would like to see a HHKB Pro 2 Type S with a steel plate and 55g Topre switches (or even better, capacitive buckling springs).

For now, I am thoroughly enjoying my XT. I even like the noise -- it is a sharp, metallic, staccato click with each keystroke. The feedback is exceptional -- perfectly coordinated with the actuation.

I am tempted to try the Zowie, but I am very pleased with the Razer DA Black. If I start mouse shopping, I might never stop.

[Trev]

Hey guys,

This is the silent model, which as far as I know only comes in variable-weighting. I wasn't a fan of variable initially, but it was very easy to adapt to. Variable Topre feels fast/light with just the right amount of tactile bump, I wouldn't personally be interested in trying a heavier weight like 55g. The bubble keys are still standing tall, mocking me. Maybe I should Dremel them out to assert my dominance?

It would be great if someone made a really solid ABS or similar aftermarket housing for RF boards, something heavier and less creaky.

HHKB definitely needs a steel plate.

I think the RF silent switches are my noise limit for usage during Skype/G+ calls and things like that. Ever tried a group call where a couple of people have blues and another is on some IBM relic? TAP TAP TAP TAP TAP. Not good

That CM board is a bit tempting

[Muirium]

Yeah, the Novatouch ought to be pretty fantastic when they do bring it out. Topre sliders with MX mounts are just what the doctor ordered. For 7bit, especially!

According to this, there are other options on standard Topre mounts. Although you'd want something solid on Option like that. Maybe more like Wheybag's Topre specials… should be about 10 Euros of single unit, no bubble goodness, in whatever colour takes your fancy.

As for relics, I've got my favourite up and running on USB now. How does a 60% Model F sound? Answer: louder than you can possibly imagine! But the configurable layout (by moving springs) makes it pretty ideal for some 1980s HHKB style.



Yeah, I so don't do group calls.

[Hypersphere]

Trev, they are not relics; they are holy relics.

An advantage of having a range of keyboards is being able to select a relatively quiet one for conference calls. When the call is finished, I go back to a serious keyboard such as my XT!

Mu, where did you get the PD1 and PD2 keys for Tab and Backspace on your KS?

[Muirium]

The mysterious PD keys are standard on the Kishsaver. Here's four of them, as seen on my desk last winter:



I just replaced PD3 with a standard ANSI Model M Return key. PD2 is a nice key, because it makes a perfectly reasonable HHKB backspace.

[Hypersphere]

Interesting. I don't think I have seen anything like a PD2 key on any other IBM board.

[Hypersphere]

Hey guys,
<snip>
It would be great if someone made a really solid ABS or similar aftermarket housing for RF boards, something heavier and less creaky.

I take it that your RF feels too light and that the case is creaky. I thought they were supposed to be really solid keyboards. However, even my full-size Model M and my SSK have somewhat creaky cases -- noticeable only if I press down on the edges of the case. However, my Model F XT keyboard has no creak at all, and it is really solid and heavy. I predict you would very much like the feel of the XT, although from what you have said, you would not like its sound (which to me is a most agreeable music).

[Muirium]

The average Model M is definitely creakier than the average Realforce. Those things are quite impressive, for plastic. Model Fs, meanwhile, are as creaky as a blacksmith's anvil…

[Hypersphere]

The average Model M is definitely creakier than the average Realforce. Those things are quite impressive, for plastic. Model Fs, meanwhile, are as creaky as a blacksmith's anvil…

Someone should organize a performance of Verdi's Anvil Chorus replacing Spanish Gypsies with 80s-era secretaries happily banging away on their XTs. Of course, the Marx Brothers did something similar, but with a cash register.

[Trev]

Some quick thoughts on the Kensington Expert "Mouse":

I used it for around 1.5 weeks, full time. I became reasonably proficient with it within the first day, but it took around 4-5 days to become fast and almost effortless.

What does it have going for it? (in my opinion)

- Close proximity to the keyboard is a big win for ergonomics. There's less time wasted in jumping between keyboard/pointer device.

- Takes up less desk space, looks tidy.

- Probably slightly better for RSI/wrist problems, since you're not constantly claw-gripping a mouse and tensing up muscles.

- Setting a button or key to lock the trackball in scroll-wheel mode is probably the nicest way to scroll webpages that I've tried. Very tactile and accurate.


Negatives

- The sensor in mine seems to be crap. I'm probably spoiled by whatever is in the Zowie AM and G9X, but it feels fairly jumpy, especially on the horizontal axis. This makes text selection rather cumbersome if you're running it at higher speeds. For your average user who takes 3-4 seconds to track the cursor across two monitors, it's likely more than adequate. I couldn't find any combination of speed/acceleration curves to maintain long-distance flickability, while retaining low speed selection accuracy. I think a higher quality (and DPI) sensor might help.

- Text selection is frustrating unless you lower mouse speed or acceleration to the point that it's too slow for everything else.

- Button quality isn't great.

- The scroll wheel is a nice idea, but the mechanical implementation here is terrible. There's also not many "ticks" on the optical sensor wheel, which would benefit from higher resolution. The stock feel is slightly gritty, Teflon lube helps.

I don't get the impression Kensington cares about build quality very much, so wouldn't recommend the Expert Mouse unless you can purchase it at a low price.

I do actually enjoy using the trackball, but jumping back to the Zowie AM makes me realize I'm wasting a lot of time with the Kensington. With the Zowie I have excellent high and low speed accuracy. I can easily flick across two 27" monitors very quickly, but immediately select text or edit with pixel-perfect accuracy at low-speeds.

I'd be temped to try something like the CST which should have a better sensor. Unfortunately, the middle-click button location on those CST's seems really odd.

I'd be curious to hear what users of both the KEM and CST think of the sensor issue.

Cheers

Trev

[Trev]

Everything's better with pics, so here's the KEM in action:

[Hypersphere]

At first I thought it was Ripster's shoe.

[DerpyDash_xAD]

I got mine second hand for 40, love it to bits. I even played minecraft with it, now to try CSS

[scottc]

That trackball is so huge that I thought your Realforce was a HHKB...

[DerpyDash_xAD]

It is so fun/easy to use tho man, it is amazing. Your life will change, become a baller.

[scottc]

I have a Logitech Trackman waiting for me at home. Not quite the same, but excited nonetheless!

[cookie]

I had an Expert Mouse a while ago, but not this one it was the oldschool gray looking one.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... Mouse5.jpg

Okay actually it was the Turbo mouse for old macs and I couldn't get it to work on my office PC even with an ADB Adapter I had no right klick and stuff, anyway.

Does this thing feel a bit scratchy? Before I sold my turbo mouse I was kind of disapointed about the feel of it.
The ball was lying on two metal ball bearings. It wasn't so pleasent to use it. How is this one?

[DerpyDash_xAD]

it just has three beads of plastic, and it does catch if you dont move it vigourously. however, you can bind a key for fine movemen, so you can be vigourous and still not miss

(I'm on a qwerty rubber dome, forgive me for bad typing)

[Kurk]

I have an CST L-Trac at home. It does one thing very well: collecting dust. That in turn is due to its scratchiness. I don't know how smooth the Kensington Expert Mouse is but in my limited experience with trackballs I'd say if the ball doesn't roll freely it has to go (or collect dust).

A review in case anyone missed it:
http://deskthority.net/other-devices-f3 ... t7391.html

[Trev]

Hey Kurk, that's a great review.

Definitely agree with you that the ball needs to rotate freely. Any sort of friction or snagging contributes to jumpy/jerky movements on screen. The KEM doesn't spin freely/smoothly enough at low speeds. Combine this with a very average sensor... unimpressed.

Re: ITAC's "Optical encoder wheel". That's some great 1980's tech. This doesn't seem anywhere near accurate enough for a pointing device. What a joke, especially considering their prices.

The angle of your hand on the CST seems uncomfortable, I was really surprised at that. Not that this matters if you can't manipulate the sticky trackball accurately.

I suppose there's not enough of a market for manufacturers to step up and build quality trackballs?

Based on my brief experience with the KEM and what I've read about other brands, it sounds like the current selection of trackballs is only worth buying second-hand/cheaply, more as a curiosity than anything to be taken seriously.

[davkol]

derp

[Vierax]

Yes, Kensington produces low quality build. I just had to change the microswitch under the left button of my two-years-old Orbit (with the annoying scroll ring which moves freely)
The funny thing is that I use it left-handed since a year so my left button is the right click and not so much used
Even the cheap Logitech mouse that I used everyday during six years and that I had to take back still works without the need of a switch replacement.

[Hypersphere]

It is so fun/easy to use tho man, it is amazing. Your life will change, become a baller.

Wish I was a baller...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryDOy3AosBw

[ShawnMeg]

I'm thinking of a trackball or two myself. I've been looking at the CST2545-5W and one of the Kensingtons (Expert Mouse, Slim Blade).