F104+SSK+122+62+77+50+Ergo orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

[Ellipse]

ok, I could stretch it to two months

[strah]

Will the blank black keycaps produced by the factory include the normal right shift? I'm asking because right now, the online shop still says "right shift key not included" but I guess that was for the Unicomp-sourced blank black keys. Will the new keycaps be made of PBT and will they be considerably different in thickness compared to the Unicomp keycaps or will they be comparable?

I'm asking all this because I already have a complete blank black keycap set from Unicomp (including the right shift) but I'd get a set of the new blank black keycaps if they are of higher quality compared to the Unicomp caps.

[Ellipse]

strah I am hoping to include the right shift for the black blanks too so that any keyboard you order will include a full 103 key set just in case anyone with a Unicomp or spare Model F / Model M wants to order extra key sets or use their F62/F77 key set on another keyboard.

Yes the new ones will be made of PBT and they will be one-piece caps similar to IBM PC XT caps hopefully. They will be the same dimensions as those keys.

Yes I am hoping the new ones are higher quality and that they do not have the shine of many of those blank black sets.

[friendlyfloor40]

Keep up the good work here Ellipse because we, who believe in your keyboards are happy to wait for them. Sometimes PERFECTION takes time to achieve.

Word.

[Ellipse]

Is anyone interested in just the non-stepped split right shift key? Or pad printed black one-piece keys? Pad printing legends has a high MOQ (I don't have exact figures or expected costs just yet).

[roboticus]

Just want to say this is an amazing project Ellipse.

I'm seriously thinking about ordering but I'm confused about the layout options. What exactly are these?
- HHKB-Style Split Right Shift and Split Backspace
- HHKB-Style Split Right Shift and regular 2-unit wide backspace

What I'm after is this layout: https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/wp-cont ... 00x544.jpg

But preferably with a flat capslock and right shift (rather than stepped). what would you call that? If you had an image/diagram that showed the different layout options that would really make it a lot easier to understand..

Also.. is it possible to get a set of blank industrial SSK keys?


One last thing.. i know you've said on multiple occasions you aren't planning to do other layouts, but SURELY there must be a big demand for an SSK layout... i would kill for a new industrial SSK with capacitive keys.. i cant be the only one!

[alh84001]

I'm seriously thinking about ordering but I'm confused about the layout options. What exactly are these?
- HHKB-Style Split Right Shift and Split Backspace
- HHKB-Style Split Right Shift and regular 2-unit wide backspace

What I'm after is this layout: https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/wp-cont ... 00x544.jpg

You want the second option then.
The difference is that the first option has two 1u keys in place of a backspace. Usually these are "\" and "`" keys. Backspace or Delete is then moved to the place of ANSI "\". It is most commonly seen in HHKB

[roboticus]

You want the second option then.
The difference is that the first option has two 1u keys in place of a backspace. Usually these are "\" and "`" keys. Backspace or Delete is then moved to the place of ANSI "\". It is most commonly seen in HHKB

Thank you for that - it definitely helps to see that diagram

One thing i'm not really clear on though is what is the difference between the default layout ("ANSI Enter" from the dropdown list) and "HHKB-Style Split Right Shift and Split Backspace"? If the right shift is not split, then where would the function key go?

sorry if these are dumb questions....

[strah]

One thing i'm not really clear on though is what is the difference between the default layout ("ANSI Enter" from the dropdown list) and "HHKB-Style Split Right Shift and Split Backspace"? If the right shift is not split, then where would the function key go?

Since this board uses the xwhatsit controller, it is fully programmable, so you can place the Fn key wherever you like. A possible spot for a layout with non-split right shift would be one of the 1u keys on the bottom row, for example the right 1u key as shown in this layout (which is the standard ANSI layout with horizontal enter):

[kekstee]

@roboticus: the HHKB option is especially relevant since placing the Fn right of Shift requires a different plate. You could always install the Fn left of a short rifght shift with standard ANSI here.

[alh84001]

The link below is off-topic but reminded me of this project, only on a smaller scale obviously.
http://www.bigmessowires.com/2016/06/04 ... connector/

@ellipse if any of the above sounds familiar you have a kindred spirit somewhere out there

[roboticus]

Since this board uses the xwhatsit controller, it is fully programmable, so you can place the Fn key wherever you like. A possible spot for a layout with non-split right shift would be one of the 1u keys on the bottom row, for example the right 1u key as shown in this layout (which is the standard ANSI layout with horizontal enter):

ok.. i get that you can reprogram the keys. I was just confused because in this image above, it has 1 less physical key than a layout with a split right shift. does the large shift key just hide the second key switch?

[Ellipse]

Some more info about the HHKB style vs. regular style layout options:

I'm going to take better photos of the layouts and their descriptions once the early bird keyboards come in.

The difference is in a few keys which are in different spots.

This photo below from wcass best explains a good approximation of the HHKB style layout.

Besides some cosmetic changes in the labeling of the keys, the HHKB shifts the 2 barrels in the right shift area a few mm from their normal positions to allow for a short right shift (the caps lock key in the split right shift area of the photo you linked to) as well as a 1U key to the right of that key.

If I go through with my own keys, there will not be any stepped keys except ISO enter for the international layout folks.

HHKB split right shift layout.jpg (73.71 KiB) Viewed 5913 times

[kekstee]

Will the final decision on your own keys be in time for the early bird round to change the amount or type of keycaps ordered?

[scottc]

If I go through with my own keys, there will not be any stepped keys except ISO enter for the international layout folks.

I don't think it is wise to stop caps lock from being stepped. This would break compatibility with all existing buckling spring keysets. Is that really a good idea?

[andrewjoy]

It would not break anything , it would be a new key the same size as stepped caps lock , without the step .

[scottc]

Ah, okay. I must be thinking of off-center stems on Cherry or something.

[Ellipse]

Yep scottc it's the same size as the caps lock key and with the same off-center barrel positioning as with the Model M stepped caps lock key, just no step.

kekstee I will be going with my own keys for most orders (maybe not APL or some international variant sets) - I looked over the factory's quotation and it is good. If you need to order extra keys please let me know in the next few weeks.

[scottc]

Okay, sorry for the confusion! I was a bit thrown off.

[roboticus]

Thanks for the extra info Ellipse. I will wait until the images are ready so I can see exactly what the options are and I'm confident i know what i'm getting.

whats the latest ETA for the first early bird boards to arrive?

[Ellipse]

roboticus the images currently on the site show what options are available, for both the regular and HHKB style. If you are not sure of something feel free to ask. I noted the following differences between the installed key sets on modelfkeyboards.com:

"For HHKB/split right shift and split backspace printed layouts, custom printed keys will be included (if available from Unicomp): Delete key the size of | \, 1U size | \, stepped Ctrl/Ctrl-style Caps Lock, Caps-Lock style Shift, and 1U Fn. For the HHKB set with the non-split backspace, you will not receive the 1U | \ key and the | \-sized backspace key."

We're looking at it shipping from China to me as early as late July/August, then I need to go one by one testing each keyboard for my quality control before it ships. Yes unfortunately the whole process is taking longer than expected

[roboticus]

roboticus the images currently on the site show what options are available, for both the regular and HHKB style. If you are not sure of something feel free to ask. I noted the following differences between the installed key sets on modelfkeyboards.com:

"For HHKB/split right shift and split backspace printed layouts, custom printed keys will be included (if available from Unicomp): Delete key the size of | \, 1U size | \, stepped Ctrl/Ctrl-style Caps Lock, Caps-Lock style Shift, and 1U Fn. For the HHKB set with the non-split backspace, you will not receive the 1U | \ key and the | \-sized backspace key."

We're looking at it shipping from China to me as early as late July/August, then I need to go one by one testing each keyboard for my quality control before it ships. Yes unfortunately the whole process is taking longer than expected

Mmm i'm sure for the more experienced members that text description is obvious but I have a hard time visualising it
It's cool, I want the layout pictured which i've confirmed is "HHKB-Style Split Right Shift and regular 2-unit wide backspace"

btw is it possible to get blank industrial ssk keys?

I'm not worried about the delays .. good things take time

[andrewjoy]

Yep scottc it's the same size as the caps lock key and with the same off-center barrel positioning as with the Model M stepped caps lock key, just no step.

kekstee I will be going with my own keys for most orders (maybe not APL or some international variant sets) - I looked over the factory's quotation and it is good. If you need to order extra keys please let me know in the next few weeks.

Will you be stocking a 1.5 size backspace key for unix layouts ?

[Ellipse]

Yes most likely on the blank industrial ssk keys and yes Andrew on the 1.5u backspace keys.

[andrewjoy]

Just out of interest are you getting them made yourself or relying on unicomps shocking dyesub .

It so strange , the APL set i got of them is loverly but the custom 1.5 backspace is shit , i asked them to do symbol only and they did the symbol with backspace ( the word) crushed up to the edge .

I would recommend symbol only.

[Ellipse]

China will be doing the dye sub for the keys. What does everyone prefer for the HHKB style backspace key? The word backspace or the symbol? I don't think both would fit comfortably.

[Elrick]

What does everyone prefer for the HHKB style backspace key? The word backspace or the symbol? I don't think both would fit comfortably.

Because most HHKB users are almost blind from Hacking into Businesses/Governments late at night, best to go with a symbol instead .

[andrewjoy]

Symbols for everything that can be a symbol IMO , just look at the old caps lock symbol on IBMs . mmmm nice!

[alh84001]

For consistency sake I would prefer both symbol and word, with word being shortened if it doesn't fit comfortably.

[Hypersphere]

@Ellipse: When I use printed keycaps, I prefer symbols rather than words on the modifiers. However, when possible, I use blanks for modifiers.