F104+SSK+122+62+77+50+Ergo orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

[duynguyenle]

After much deliberations I think I will stick with the OG Industrial Grey colour to stay true to the IBM theme, difficult decision for sure

[Ellipse]

The factory is still working on adjusting the key molds. In the mean time, all the other first run parts appear to be finished! I am expecting them to ship everything out except the keys in the coming days.

When these first-run parts arrive I will examine each part and if it is all good, production will start on the remaining parts! (Top/bottom inner assemblies, springs, hard anodized compact cases, keys, boxes, and inner/outside foam).

The factory expects production and assembly to take 2-3 months, and then these will all ship from China to me for final testing and shipping (generally) in sequence of when you placed your order.

Here are the first run compact cases - please note that these colors are not accurate and are not representative of what anyone will get:

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Here is the new batch of finished springs:

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[emdude]

Who else is waiting on a third party reviewer? Anyone who is planning on attending the Philadelphia/Villanova Keycon in June want to do a review?

I am waiting for a third party reviewer, preferably of the final production model.

I'll be waiting on a review of the final production model as well; if they are good, then I might participate in the main round!

@Ellipse, what interests me most are the "XT-quality" keys that you plan to produce. When "XT-quality" is thrown around in discussions, it is usually in reference to the high-quality dye-sublimated legends. I recall you posting that your manufacturer (or some other one, I can't recall) could not meet your expectations for legends. I believe you said you would do the dye-sublimation yourself. How do you plan to tackle that? Do you plan to reproduce the modified Helvetica typeface that was used on the XT keys?

[Ellipse]

XT quality in my mind refers to the quality of the dye sub legends, the sturdiness and color of the PBT for these one-piece keys, and the strong texture of the key top surface (not glossy, shiny, or slippery).

Yep I am re-drawing the legends based on that of the XT's and have been consulting with some US-based dye sublimation firms to ensure top quality. Most of today's dye sublimation is done on shirts, mugs, and other products using ink jet printed transfer sheets but I managed to talk with some experts who have done dye sub keys and other dye sub work over the past 2-3 decades - not too many of them are out there!

The plan is to get these keys made and sent to me as soon as they are ready, and then I will be doing the sublimating and mailing the keys right back in time for assembly. The keys should not take as long at the factory as the other parts because the other parts require more time consuming secondary operations (powdercoating, bending, welding, hard anodizing, re-doing out of spec parts). The keys will require removal of flash/excess plastic.

One dye sub firm consulting me will be doing some test dye subs onto the forthcoming key prototypes to make sure the quality with their equipment meets my standards before I buy anything.

[emdude]

XT quality in my mind refers to the quality of the dye sub legends, the sturdiness and color of the PBT for these one-piece keys, and the strong texture of the key top surface (not glossy, shiny, or slippery).

Yep I am re-drawing the legends based on that of the XT's and have been consulting with some US-based dye sublimation firms to ensure top quality. Most of today's dye sublimation is done on shirts, mugs, and other products using ink jet printed transfer sheets but I managed to talk with some experts who have done dye sub keys and other dye sub work over the past 2-3 decades - not too many of them are out there!

Sounds good! Looking forward to the prototypes with test dyesubs then.

[POTV]

Has anyone received one of these keyboards by now? I must admit that I have not followed this thread that intensely since the beginning almost two years ago...

[Ellipse]

POTV we hit some factory delays - here is an overview of the challenges facing production: https://redd.it/64q5fg

If you check the OP that will tell you the current status of the parts completed and the parts still in production.

[POTV]

Thanks - nice to know!

[Ellipse]

All the first run parts (except keys) are being sent tomorrow by DHL Express! They should arrive by mid-week and then I can start the final QC testing for all parts. I have extra batteries for my micrometer! Keys are expected to be mailed by the end of next week. They are working on the final adjustments of the key molds.

Here are the photos of the cases and outside foam being mailed. The other inner parts are also being mailed so in effect I will be doing the assembly and testing from all newly received parts.

Again please disregard any and all colors and lighting in these photos as they are not accurate or representative of what you will get.

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[sgtpopwell]

So bad-ASS! I know we're still a ways off but that is a good update right there Looking forward to the results!

[Aer Fixus]

Sexy.

Incredible.

My excitement is overflowing.

[codemonkeymike]

The red is beautiful, I too look forward to a 3rd party review. It's not easy for me to drop half a rent check on an unknown.

[Ellipse]

codemonkeymike what if you wanted to review them in person? I was thinking of attending the Philadelphia keycon at Villanova on 6/24 and bringing these final first run keyboards. Anyone planning on attending?

https://geekhack.org/index.php?board=195.0

[codemonkeymike]

Yah I should be able to make that, sounds good!

[robotsokk]

I've tried multiple times to talk myself out of joining this GB, but the pull is just too great. Now just mulling over my final selection of options...

[Hypersphere]

Last week I completed my final order -- an F77. I agonized forever over the color and the layout for the nav island / num pad. At least the layout is programmable. It would be nice if the color were programmable as well!

[Ellipse]

Great robotsokk and Hypersphere!

My personal preference is for the original off-white/beige color, F77 version with num pad style right side block.

[Wodan]

Ellipse.

This thread is a journal of endless delays of your own GB and your customers, including me, have shown nearly unlimited patience yet you are the first one asking for an instant refund in the Xwhatsit controller GB I am running with lot_lizard with 6 weeks of buyer protection left. I have kept everyone updated about the current status and my efforts to find a way to deliver and promised to refund everyone well withing coverage. Yet you OF ALL PEOPLE are the first one asking for a refund - with a TODAY attitude... on a Saturday!!!

Wonder what your business would look like if people started claiming their money back like that ... consider that.

Oh yeah - refunded.

[Ellipse]

Good news - the final prototypes parts arrived and they all look great! Will assemble, post photos, and do further testing today and tomorrow.

Wodan I am sorry for the project delays. I will be ordering the beamspring controllers from another source. It is my understanding that you have not placed any orders yet for the controller parts.

For the F62/F77 project, most of the major parts have already finished production and the remaining parts are going into production later this month most likely.

In case anyone wants to learn more about the challenges bringing back 1980s tech into production here is my thread from reddit: https://redd.it/64q5fg

[Ellipse]

I am typing on a fully assembled new prototype F62!

Everything is working very well so far. The powdercoated die cast zinc cases are excellent quality. It was well worth the couple extra months to get the paint job right. The off-white/beige color is almost an exact match to the 1988 F107 case I mailed them as the reference. The texture is the same bumpy, mostly matte but slightly reflective powdercoating as the original. The True Red and Black cases look good. In the next week or two they will mail the Industrial cases.

The capacitive PCBs, controller PCBs, inner foam, and outside foam are all good. Every PCB is being grounded in two spots to the bottom inner assembly with 6-32 screws to eliminate the risk of stray capacitive signals.

There were a number of issues that I have told the factory to work on and prioritize for completion as soon as possible. Some notes:

The top inner assembly parts are very good but slightly off spec. The TIA curve is about 1mm off from the ideal. My XT sample has a perfect curve that matches my CAD files exactly so I have asked the factory to remake the samples to this standard. The perfect curve helps ensure a more even pressure on the barrels between the top and bottom inner assembly. The wrong curve can result in wiggly barrels and clicks that are not as sharp so it is important that they get it right. To correct this issue they are going to adjust their tooling and mail corrected parts ASAP.

The compact cases had some issues with the color of the hard anodizing being slightly off. They are adding another couple screws on the bottom to further secure the case.

The product boxes were 2.5mm thickness instead of the 5.0mm I had specified so those were rejected, though the box artwork is well-printed.

Finally the springs are very close to the originals but I want to see a few more spring samples with different materials before the springs go into production.

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[Mattr567]

How does this new prototype compare to the original from that video you posted? Feel/sound?

[Ellipse]

The springs have improved sound but the top inner assembly needs to be re-made and accurately curved before the Model F sound is at its sharpest. Currently it's well within the range of the original Model F's that have gone through my refurbishings over the years.

We are getting there - thanks to everyone for their patience with the factory delays.

The feel is very comfortable to type on. Another buckling spring fan in my family hit 112 WPM on 10fastfingers with this first-run F62! You can really notice the difference with new springs that have not been worn out and oxidized after 30 years.

[Scarpia]

My apologies if this has been answered already: How will the space bar weighting compare to an F XT? The XT space bar is far too heavy for me to type on comfortably, and from what I've read, the surgery required to make it lighter is actually one of the circles of hell.

I guess my real question is: Can I order mine with a comfortably light (Model M-like) space bar weighting? Or do I need to add a side order of the parts I need to mod it?

[wobbled]

My apologies if this has been answered already: How will the space bar weighting compare to an F XT? The XT space bar is far too heavy for me to type on comfortably, and from what I've read, the surgery required to make it lighter is actually one of the circles of hell.

I guess my real question is: Can I order mine with a comfortably light (Model M-like) space bar weighting? Or do I need to add a side order of the parts I need to mod it?

The F XT and AT's spacebars are so stiff due to the massive wire stabilizer underneath. If you bend it at a certain angle the actuation force will decrease.
This is not a problem with the F62, F77, or F107's as they use standard size spacebars similar to the Model M. As far as I can tell, these will be slightly lighter than the spacebars used on an M.

[Ellipse]

Yes correct, we are using the regular style spacebars. They are Model M style stabilizers to maximize future parts availability/compatibility (any Model M spacebar will work).

[Scarpia]

Phew, thanks for the reply wobbled & Ellipse! And nice to be able to source parts a little more easily. Can't wait!

[Ellipse]

We passed $235,000 in orders this week!

Update on the top inner assembly cases - the factory has agreed to change over to a different tooling setup to make top inner assembly parts that are accurate in their bend and size. They need a few weeks for setup and to send the corrected samples.

This is an important step to make sure the Brand New Model F keyboards sound as good as the best Model F keyboards in my collection, not just the 50th percentile Model F. The best ones have accurate top inner assembly curves like the XT example in one of my recent posts. The middle row should be as clicky as the other rows after the corrected cases arrive.

In the mean time I expect the final remaining parts to start going into production - we will not be waiting for these top inner assembly parts to be ready before wrapping up production on the other items.

[zooksman]

Beautiful work, Ellipse. I have some questions about the production times if you could answer before the order deadline.

I want one of these keyboards, but I'm a bit low on funds right now and would like to wait for a third party review. After May 31st, when is the next time, if at all, orders will be open? Will the prices raise at all during that period? Thanks!

[Ellipse]

Yep you'll be able to order one in the next month or two. Third party reviews won't be for a while as some of the parts are being corrected at the factory.

I also accept down payments in case anyone is interested in putting in an order but sending the funds over time.

Raw material pricing has risen significantly in China so pricing may go up for everyone at some point.

[zooksman]

Awesome. How should I arrange the down payment? Make a note in the order?