[IC] HyperMicro and HyperMini Keyboard

[oneproduct]

I could possibly mass produce handmade aluminum cases for these as I did with Poker cases before. While not as fancy as some of the ones offered by other people, they're cheaper and can be made in high quantities. Also now that I've done it once I could try to make things a bit better this time around. Last time it was around $80 for a brushed and anodized case + shipping. That was for 30 cases, more could be a bit cheaper.

Also, while I'm at it, I'll plug the modified HyperMicro that I like!

http://i.imgur.com/CZLlK.png Edit: removed image tags so this layout is less apparent, because I designed other ones lower down on this page!

It's 4x13 instead of 4x12 because I found that the 4x12 doesn't have enough keys on the top layer for common use, lacking too much punctuation. Function layers are great for less common things, but having to use them to get basic characters seems a bit much. The 4x12 also only has 9 keys on the homerow, which makes touchtyping a bit unusual. I could probably make cases for this as well if nobody else can. Show your interest for this design!

[dirge]

I could possibly mass produce handmade aluminum cases for these as I did with Poker cases before. Last time it was around $80 for a brushed and anodized case + shipping. That was for 30 cases, more could be a bit cheaper.

You must do this!

[Matias]

Interesting design. A few suggestions...

Most people use their right thumb to do Space, so it'll be easier to adjust to if Space is on the right and Backspace is on the left.

Also, your thumbs sit naturally between the B key and V/N. That extra key you have under B will make they keyboard feel cramped.

[CeeSA]

@oneproduct - i like it

i would go for space under B and N and single backspace under M. I use the Tipros that way and i like it a lot.

[oneproduct]

@Matias

Since it's programmable, you could switch space and backspace at your leisure. I would completely remove the circle to be honest, but I don't think they make 2.5x size keys... Might be worth looking into. I'd like to note though that my thumb happens to rest between C and V personally. I suppose it depends on the size of your hands, mine are quite small.

@CeeSA

I'd like to keep the symmetry, particularly as some people, including myself, use their left thumb for spacebar.

---

I'll see if I can think of something a little different on the bottom, maybe 1.25 sized modifiers and removed circle key to allow bigger, symmetrical space/backspace keys.

Edit: Actually, can someone tell me what size keys are available to serve as spacebars for the bottom row? I see this DCS chart, which only has 4.5x and up spacebars but since 7bit had some designs with smaller spacebars, I imagine that there are some available? Or does he just use the keys from row 4 which have the same slant but a concave top instead of convex? http://keycapsdirect.com/pdfs/DCSFamily.pdf

[pasph]

I want something like the Choc Mini in ISO layout!
I hope that is what you have in mind with that "third keyboard"

Forecast:

This!

[oneproduct]

Just did a little search about the left/right thumb for spacebar and found this nice sample of 204 people: http://www.overclock.net/t/1109489/do-y ... left-thumb

I think that people using left thumb stems from usage of the mouse, where your right hand (since most people are right handed) is holding the mouse leaving your left thumb as the only one available to hit the spacebar. This is particularly prominent for those that play computer games.

In any case, being programmable means you can switch it, though I would most certainly like to leave the bottom symmetrical.

[oneproduct]

Here's another design that I'm sort of partial to, but I think that people would be less accepting of. Someone had mentioned symmetrical staggering before, so here's one at 0.25x unit staggering.



I think it makes very good use of the space and has things located pretty well for a sort of "default" layout, but you could easily change some things around in the firmware. I tried having 1x Ctrl - 1x Win -1x Alt on the bottom but I think this is a bit nicer. I would probably personally change Shift and Fn here, though I left it like this because I think that people would be afraid to change where Shift is.

For the most part it is identical to the one I posted above, except that the modifiers along the right and left sides have their sizes getting smaller as you go down instead of getting bigger. There's a 0.5x empty space between G and H, someone even suggested to put a trackpoint there, which would certainly be interesting. As a random bonus, Esc and Return could be combined into a ISO style big Enter key! Esc would then presumably take the place of Win.

For those who just want a "regular" staggered keyboard layout, I would highly encourage you to give this a shot! Your right hand is tilted inward like this on a regular keyboard, this just changes the left hand to tilt inward rather than outward, something which makes far more sense! It's not hard to learn how to type like this at all either, I assure you. It feels quite natural.

Also, my apologies to 7bit for filling his thread with far too many wacky designs... I'm sure things would be much simpler without me. I do quite love this layout though.

[fossala]

I would buy that.

[nntnam]

I could possibly mass produce handmade aluminum cases for these as I did with Poker cases before.

You must do it! I would like to have the case in the order list . I think we should have something like a "complete keyboard GB" instead of just the PCB, plate, controller,... My upcoming phantom board still doesn't have a case to be put in

[oneproduct]

Just for comparison, I made the same bottom row changes to the other layout. Here's the two layouts next to each other, the first with normal staggering and the second with symmetric staggering.

Edit: actually... the top one isn't quite normal staggering. The second row is suppose to be 0.25x units off the top row and the bottom row is suppose to be 0.5x units off the middle row. That would make Fn and Shift both 0.25x units shorter and Return 0.25x units longer, but would leave the Up arrow 0.25x longer as well, which suddenly makes me realize why the Race uses all 1.25 size arrows. I'll have to change some things as a 0.5x stagger from middle to top is quite uncomfortable... one moment... Okay done, but there's a 0.25x unit gap along the bottom row which can't really be avoided. However, I don't find it that bad as it gives a little separation between the typing keys and the arrow keys. Not sure what you guys think.




For reference, here's the old one with incorrect staggering which can't really be ignored:


I also see that the C400 and C600 HyperMini's don't have normal staggering on the bottom row of letters.

[JBert]

[img snip]
HYPERMINI
HYPERMINI/ISOWIN

Ooh, I must have missed this the first time around. Now that's interesting, a fine Poker ISO mod...

I had forgotten to add these to the first post.

In the mean time I've been reading through the GH60 keyboard thread on GeekHack and they also offer the more mundane versions of these designs (also in ISO/ANSI versions and choice between 1.25 or 1.5 modifiers).

It might be wise to keep an eye on them, the Phantom had successful group buys on both boards and higher volumes might mean lower prices...

[7bit]

I could possibly mass produce handmade aluminum cases for these as I did with Poker cases before. While not as fancy as some of the ones offered by other people, they're cheaper and can be made in high quantities. Also now that I've done it once I could try to make things a bit better this time around. Last time it was around $80 for a brushed and anodized case + shipping. That was for 30 cases, more could be a bit cheaper.

Also, while I'm at it, I'll plug the modified HyperMicro that I like!

http://i.imgur.com/CZLlK.png Edit: removed image tags so this layout is less apparent, because I designed other ones lower down on this page!

Woyuld be great if we could offer a case. Only problem is that you are located in the US, so shipping might be a bit high for us Europeans.

Can you find out how much shipping would cost for one case to Europe?

It's 4x13 instead of 4x12 because I found that the 4x12 doesn't have enough keys on the top layer for common use, lacking too much punctuation. Function layers are great for less common things, but having to use them to get basic characters seems a bit much. The 4x12 also only has 9 keys on the homerow, which makes touchtyping a bit unusual. I could probably make cases for this as well if nobody else can. Show your interest for this design!

OK, I will add the 4x13 option.

What is between Micro and Mini?

[7bit]

@oneproduct - i like it

i would go for space under B and N and single backspace under M. I use the Tipros that way and i like it a lot.

Just swap the key caps, re-program the controller and you are done.

[7bit]

I'll see if I can think of something a little different on the bottom, maybe 1.25 sized modifiers and removed circle key to allow bigger, symmetrical space/backspace keys.

Edit: Actually, can someone tell me what size keys are available to serve as spacebars for the bottom row? I see this DCS chart, which only has 4.5x and up spacebars but since 7bit had some designs with smaller spacebars, I imagine that there are some available? Or does he just use the keys from row 4 which have the same slant but a concave top instead of convex? http://keycapsdirect.com/pdfs/DCSFamily.pdf

Key caps for the bottom row:
1, 1.25, 1.5, 1.75, 2, 2.25 (DCS only), 2.5, 2.75 (DCS only), 3,
4 (SA only), 4.5 (DCS only), 5 (DCS only), 6 (DCS only), 6.25, 6.75 (DCS only),
7, 8, 9, 9.75 (DCS only this is the WYSE one), 10 (DCS only).

Of these, only key caps larger than 4 units are dedicated space bars.

[7bit]

HyperPoo

This!

OK. 2nd thread is comming ...

[7bit]

...

Also, my apologies to 7bit for filling his thread with far too many wacky designs... I'm sure things would be much simpler without me. I do quite love this layout though.

This is the prupose of this thread!

SSB-layout for 4x13 should be no problem.

[7bit]

For reference, here's the old one with incorrect staggering which can't really be ignored:


I also see that the C400 and C600 HyperMini's don't have normal staggering on the bottom row of letters.

What do you mean 'incorrect staggering'?
C400 and C600 are designed the same way as the Japanese HHKB and 7BIT-layout is always 1/2-staggering which is the only correct staggering.

[7bit]

...
GH60 keyboard thread on GeekHack[/url] and they also offer the more mundane versions of these designs (also in ISO/ANSI versions and choice between 1.25 or 1.5 modifiers).

It might be wise to keep an eye on them, the Phantom had successful group buys on both boards and higher volumes might mean lower prices...

As far as I know there is not much more than just boring ANSI, ISO, ANSIWIN and ISOWIN. Because of the controller placement there is no space left for short space bars.

If the controller fails, you can throw away that board, while it is always possible to solder in a new controller on a Hyper keyboard.

[oneproduct]

Would be great if we could offer a case. Only problem is that you are located in the US, so shipping might be a bit high for us Europeans.

Can you find out how much shipping would cost for one case to Europe?

...

OK, I will add the 4x13 option.

What is between Micro and Mini?

It costs $35 to send one case to anywhere across an ocean from me based on how much it cost me last time, but if I could send them all to one person in Europe to distribute them it would probably be far more reasonable. For people in the US it only costs around $15 to ship.

If there's someone who could make a bunch by machine it might be better, but I can offer this as a backup. I would just need to know how much space would be needed for the controller and anything else on the bottom as well as where screws would be.

Key caps for the bottom row:
1, 1.25, 1.5, 1.75, 2, 2.25 (DCS only), 2.5, 2.75 (DCS only), 3,
4 (SA only), 4.5 (DCS only), 5 (DCS only), 6 (DCS only), 6.25, 6.75 (DCS only),
7, 8, 9, 9.75 (DCS only this is the WYSE one), 10 (DCS only).

Of these, only key caps larger than 4 units are dedicated space bars.

Ouch, no 3.5x, so I have to do something else. Would getting them to make a mold for a 3.5x dedicated spacebar cost too much? Is is more than making a regular mold for a double shot key?

What do you mean 'incorrect staggering'?
C400 and C600 are designed the same way as the Japanese HHKB and 7BIT-layout is always 1/2-staggering which is the only correct staggering.

Oh, I didn't know that Japanese layouts did it like that. For all the layouts other than the C400 and C600 that you listed the ASDF row is staggered 0.25x from the row above it and the ZXCV row is staggered 0.5x from the row above it. The C400 and C600 use 0.5x staggering in both places, which is not what keyboards most people are use to are like. Having the top row stagger that extra 0.25x seems quite uncomfortable when I try it. You can try it by pretending that either the bottom row or the top row are the middle row, because then the row above them is staggered by 0.5x.

[fossala]

Oh, I didn't know that Japanese layouts did it like that.

They don't in general, just the HHKB jp.

[7bit]

Ouch, no 3.5x, so I have to do something else. Would getting them to make a mold for a 3.5x dedicated spacebar cost too much? Is is more than making a regular mold for a double shot key?

I think we've paid $3500 per space bar mold, but could be more expensive next time.

Oh, I didn't know that Japanese layouts did it like that. For all the layouts other than the C400 and C600 that you listed the ASDF row is staggered 0.25x from the row above it and the ZXCV row is staggered 0.5x from the row above it. The C400 and C600 use 0.5x staggering in both places, which is not what keyboards most people are use to are like. Having the top row stagger that extra 0.25x seems quite uncomfortable when I try it. You can try it by pretending that either the bottom row or the top row are the middle row, because then the row above them is staggered by 0.5x.

I was talking about the HHKB Japanese layout. In order to have a cursor T, they changed the staggering to 1/4.

Where do you see 1/2-staggering in the C400 and C600?

[oneproduct]

Err whoops, said totally the wrong thing there. The C400 and C600 use 0.25x staggering in both places is what I meant to say. And actually, when I first saw that, I thought it would be a pretty good thing. The only disadvantage that I see is that the N key, which is very common, is harder to reach from J since it is further to the left, but I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't mind.

It was your HyperMicro layout in the first post which uses the all 0.5x staggering that I'm not fond of.

[Vierax]

I assume that nothing like this http://www.pjrc.com/store/cable_usb_panel.html can be ordered. This product seems to be available only on PRJC website and, as 7bit said about Teensy 2, they don't make a price for quantities

[oneproduct]

Ok, I think this is the last change. I turned the space bar and backspace into 3x because there's no 3.5x and added the 1x key back between them.



It doesn't have to be num lock of course, but I think that since this keyboard doesn't have a number row, it would be pretty neat to program a numpad layer into it that you toggle with it. Fn would be for the shifted number row (!@#$%^&*) and function keys (F1-F12) as well as home/end/page up/page down/etc.

[7bit]

I assume that nothing like this http://www.pjrc.com/store/cable_usb_panel.html can be ordered. This product seems to be available only on PRJC website and, as 7bit said about Teensy 2, they don't make a price for quantities

When I order the controllers, I can also order other stuff from them.

[7bit]

...

It would look more harmonic if ther would be a 1.5 units key in the middle, so space and back space can be 2.75 units keys.

[frankbartoli]

im interested.

[oneproduct]

It would look more harmonic if ther would be a 1.5 units key in the middle, so space and back space can be 2.75 units keys.

I see what you mean, now the space/backspace/num lock keys follow the stagger of the rows above so it looks kind of nice. But I think that the 3x space/backspace is more useful though, someone was already saying that the spacebar didn't extend far enough to the middle of the keyboard because they rest their thumb further forward along the spacebar.

I would prefer to keep a 1x unit key in the middle and 3x unit space/backspace.

[7bit]

OK.