Ergodox massdrop groupbuy discussion

[AloisiusFauxly]

So I'm guessing massdrop is my only option if I want to get this as early as possible?

It sounds like there will be a GB outside of Massdrop due to international legal concerns. That could happen any time now, as AFAIK everything is pretty much ready to go. It could even beat out the MD.

[ironman31]

Being dismissive again? What I also hate about massdrop is that they use gullible yet aggressive forum members for their guerrilla marketing. So gullible they advertise a parasitic company with illegal terms and no company details whatsoever.

No, just being tongue and cheek about your post, friend!

Also, their terms are perfectly legal in their jurisdiction. I don't comment on the legality of companies operating out of The Netherlands because I'm not familiar with the laws there.

You know you're not going to win, right?

[webwit]

The terms say they can change the terms at any time without notification. That means it's just a weapon that can be used by them on you. You cannot do that according to EU law and it it's evidence of an inherently bad attitude (just like not posting any company details is evidence of that). For example, if my ISP wants to change the terms and conditions, they have to notify me, point out what has changed, and allow me one month to walk away with no strings attached. I don't expect laws elsewhere to be the same, but I do expect some simple decency in terms and conditions, by covering the rights of both sides.

[AloisiusFauxly]

You know you're not going to win, right?

It's just a conversation - "winning" isn't my aim.

[ironman31]

Ok, whatever floats your boat

[AloisiusFauxly]

The terms say they can change the terms at any time without notification. That means it's just a weapon that can be used by them on you. You cannot do that according to EU law and it it's evidence of an inherently bad attitude (just like not posting any company details is evidence of that). For example, if my ISP wants to change the terms and conditions, they have to notify me, point out what has changed, and allow me one month to walk away with no strings attached. I don't expect laws elsewhere to be the same, but I do expect some simple decency in terms and conditions, by covering the rights of both sides.

Again, they're based out of the US and their terms are legal there. AFAIK, these terms (which are pretty standard) won't let them screw over North Americans because of strong consumer protection laws. So they might be illegal where you are, but you should qualify that in your rants.

edit: this last post of yours wasn't a rant and I agree that it would be a better system if both sides were covered more in the terms of companies.

[webwit]

I don't follow your argument that US consumer rights are protected by allowing companies to point you the finger by including terms which invalidate all other terms at will. I also don't follow your need for qualification, when I just explained this perfectly decent EU law to you by example. Last I fail to understand why you are defending what are clearly bad terms and conditions, even if you would weigh the pros and cons and your greed or desire for this item gets the better of you, which on itself is perfectly understandable considering the desirable item in question. You have a case of SHUT UP! Just take my money! That's ok, man, if only you would be more relaxed about it.

[nodnerb]

I plan to use sugru to raise my ergodox instead of wine corks or screws. Sugru FTW!

[AloisiusFauxly]

That's one of our disagreements: their terms DO NOT invalidate NA consumer protection laws, nor do they take away my ability to file a chargeback with my credit card provider. There are numerous protections that don't require companies to protect me in their terms, so these terms are only bad for people outside of NA.

It's perfectly understandable that you wouldn't want to chance it if you don't have these protections in place, like damorgue pointed out was the case for him in Sweden.

Your opinion on Massdrop is well known, so I would invite YOU to relax about it. I'm only responding to your more spurious criticisms.

[lowkey144]

@webwit and Aloisius, could you not just duel on a mountaintop to resolve your issues? I think that you both have clocked in at least 3.5 pages of arguing at each other. It is safe to say that anyone and everyone knows where you both stand on the issue of Massdrop et al.

@webwit
I, for one, would like to know what your status is regarding your conversations with your suppliers. Is it your intention to lead a group buy or do you just want to get the ball rolling on an alternate plan?

Regarding the cornstarch/silicon version of sugru, it is not ideal for highly visible applications, but I can vouch for it being a very good alternative for emulating the desirable physical properties of sugru.

[TheQsanity]

I am interested. What may the price be? And how soon will this be real?

[bisl]

there are 4 holes where you could screw in legs like the ones you get with KMACs.

I brought the idea of adding KMAC legs to Massdrop, and they're interested in adding them to the buy; in fact given the scarcity/difficulty of obtaining korean boards, they're planning on a sourcing trip to Korea. I personally don't know where to direct him, but if anyone's got a name or a number I'll certainly pass it along; otherwise I guess I just point him to kbdmania. In any case, the bottom line is that if we can put Massdrop in contact with a supplier, they'll try.

What i want to know is how they do quality control with a project like this.

The plan is still that they'll be sending the parts either to individual buyers, or at the buyer's discretion, a designated assembler from the volunteer list collected ages ago. Therefore, in terms of QA, they can't really do anything more than visually inspect the parts on the way through (specifically the cases). I'm sure the guys doing the assembly will give them love they deserve though.

Massdrop emphasized however that they don't want to sound like they'd leave anyone out in the cold--they urge anyone somehow ending up with a bad product to contact them either via email or live chat on their site.

[justcallmecrash]

Any updates?

[bisl]

Any updates?

Given that it's now January, in theory the Massdrop might be starting soon according to their estimate from December. It probably depends on their own parts orders for the prototype they were making. I've been getting excited/antsy myself, so I'll ping them to see where they're at and post back here.

[steve]

Any updates?

Given that it's now January, in theory the Massdrop might be starting soon according to their estimate from December. It probably depends on their own parts orders for the prototype they were making. I've been getting excited/antsy myself, so I'll ping them to see where they're at and post back here.

Talked to one of the members two days ago (maybe it was three). He said they were waiting on a part (maybe the keycaps?) to come in the finish up the prototype. IIRC, he stated the full prototype clocked in at ~$400 USD and they are aiming to make it available for around or under $200 if they get the amount of buys they are expecting, but that he shouldn't be quoted on that final price as nothing is actually finalized. On Wednesday, they posted photos to their Facebook, which I believe might be the prototype they have assembled but without the Key-caps. Overall, the support guy was really excited about the Massdrop, stating the buy page should go up sometime in the next few days (The support guy was not nameless, I just cannot recall his name. He seemed to know his stuff and had done a ton of research on the topic, and if I may say so myself, seemed to be a keyboard enthusiast).

I know I''m new here, but found this forum through a little Googling and some talking with the Massdrop guy. I do plan on purchasing an Ergo Dox through the research I've done, and do indeed trust Massdrop (which seems to be a heated discussion). They have done numerous drops for Reddit in the past and everyone seems to be extremely pleased with the service they provide.

[webwit]

Oooh more massdrop commercials. I should start to ask money for these. And a share of the profits they make on communities.

Their terms of service are still clearly illegal in the EU and a total lack of respect to the customer. In other words a Bad Company, because good ones don't give the finger to customers in their terms, and don't hide behind a contact form while not giving any location, address or names. Who is massdrop? You may not know. Where is massdrop? You may not know. This kind of company deserves to die.

[bhtooefr]

Wonder what the geolocation on steve's account is. One post new user? Now that's suspicious.

[steve]

Wonder what the geolocation on steve's account is. One post new user? Now that's suspicious.

Kokomo, Indiana if you're that worried. I just found this forum while searching around for the Ergo Dox. Just wanted to share the information I had. Behind the few successes they have had with previous Massdrops, I feel safe to assume they aren't a load of crap. Must be a Reddit thing

As a side note, I think it's really weird how the trust for them is either black or white, and no one seems to be in the middle. I don't see any point in arguing the fact, as everyone seems convinced at their point.

[bhtooefr]

I'm in the middle, although some things seem a bit shady.

And, unfortunately, most US companies have terms that are clearly illegal in the EU, and have them so they're able to screw their customers enough to compete against the other US companies that also have illegal terms.

[webwit]

Kokomo, Indiana if you're that worried. I just found this forum while searching around for the Ergo Dox. Just wanted to share the information I had. Behind the few successes they have had with previous Massdrops, I feel safe to assume they aren't a load of crap. Must be a Reddit thing

As a side note, I think it's really weird how the trust for them is either black or white, and no one seems to be in the middle. I don't see any point in arguing the fact, as everyone seems convinced at their point.

It's weird that you wonder about the lack of shades of grey just after you advertised it as whiter than white.

[steve]

It's weird that you wonder about the lack of shades of grey just after you advertised it as whiter than white.

I don't get what your point is... I was just surprised no one seemed in the middle about it.

[webwit]

Point is if you advertise it as whiter and white and bypass all valid criticism unmentioned, you are a moron or a sock puppet. I really wonder why people hate themselves so much they feel they need to buy from and moreover promote bad companies which hate them too.

But I'm in, yet only on my terms which massdrop should agree with, and which allows me to change the terms at any time without notifying them. They may contact me by contact form. If you think that is stupid, you just got the bigger point.

[ic07]

Dude webwit, do you have to abuse new users too? He said Reddit people were happy with massdrop... which should be a verifiable claim... so if you want to contradict that you owe the rest of us at least a cursory search (and maybe him a polite request for reference, if you can't find anything). If instead you just want to continue saying the same stuff you have been, then we've heard it all already, and thank you, but please stop. I'm not sure it's helping anyone.

And I realize you've been around here much longer than I have, and I'm sorry. But from my record on this project, I hope you can see that at least *I* am not being payed by anyone. And given the lack of other options at this particular point, I really don't see why you can't let it go, and see how the rest of us fare.

[Vierax]

Good evening,

I'm in the middle, although some things seem a bit shady.

Same thoughts here and I have nothing more to say so I just shut up.
Moreover, I don't want to buy an Ergodox (even if I fully respect the team work and think it's a great project, it just doesn't complete the whole attempt I have of the “nearly perfect” keyboard) but I'll fell sad if the groupbuy is screwed by MD or anyone else.

[Loafers]

[L!athus]

[justcallmecrash]

Is this turning into a uninterest check now?

[AloisiusFauxly]

Although webwit might say otherwise, I'm not on the Massdrop payroll. However, I do hope they're legit as I'm awaiting my headphone amp. I'll report back with my experience of the process when it concludes, but the Massdrop reddit has a fair amount of happy-sounding people.

In the meantime, I finally got my Ergodox thrown together and after some replacement keys from SiP showed up it's typing like a champ. I had ordered two red 2x thumb keys but they didn't have a center post. Shame, as it would have looked good having two red on one hand and two green on the other.

I went with PCB-mount switches to skip the mounting plate. They are solidly affixed, standing up to cap pulls (although I am nervous when doing so). The PCB backed by fun foam is also solid with no discernible flex in normal typing, or even gaming use.

Full album here, or:

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[bjarven]

Very nice! Where did you get that pcb?

[ic07]

It's one of the boards from bpiphany's prototype run . Great to see another one working!