F104+SSK+122+62+77+50+Ergo orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

[LewisR]

Nice pics! I really enjoy looking at the work in progress.

[kekstee]

[quote="Elrick" post_id=315950][/quote]
Save your breath, no need for such a ridiculous post. It's perfectly acceptable if key pricing is dictated by molds only, nevermind the fact that you don't need all extra keys with blank sets.

Also you could read a bit more closely what I wrote before shitting on it, my question was limited to one fucking keycap, not the HHKB layout itself, the board, or printed keycaps. So please just whack yourself over the head with your standard layout F77 once you receive it.

[Ellipse]

Kekstee we should all be careful with these zinc case keyboards - they could cause some serious damage, weighing ~8-10 pounds and all...

[LewisR]

Kekstee we should all be careful with these zinc case keyboards - they could cause some serious damage, weighing ~8-10 pounds and all...

I wonder if there have been any good movie fight scenes utilizing some such keyboard.

[y11971alex]

Kekstee we should all be careful with these zinc case keyboards - they could cause some serious damage, weighing ~8-10 pounds and all...

I wonder if there have been any good movie fight scenes utilizing some such keyboard.

I don't think IBM people had office rampages much, in view of the keyboards they must have installed in their offices.



If they did, there would be serious consequences.

[Elrick]

So please just whack yourself over the head with your standard layout F77 once you receive it.

With the F77 I can still use it easily but a HHKB, is strictly for calculator usage only because it's the same size as the ones we use in our offices on occasions. Just too small and inefficient.

The original Model-F will always be superior to any HHKB keyboard, ....enough said. Maybe time for you to realize that vital fact instead of trying to hang on to your inept delusions .

[Elrick]

Kekstee we should all be careful with these zinc case keyboards - they could cause some serious damage, weighing ~8-10 pounds and all...

SO you're saying, it only weighs in about 4.5kg max, that's nothing.

Why is everyone concerned about it's light weight, try carrying around 40kg/88lbs for over 100 meters, then you see what real weight feels like.

Ellipse, you should add at least another 4.5kgs and round it off to around 9 kilos in total, that would be around 19.8 pounds .

[shreebles]

Wow, Elrick... Low blow.

I mean this "discussion" escalated pretty steeply both ways so you should probably both have a nice warm cup of calm the fuck down. But calling someones layout preference inept, that's like all the way back to keyboard kindergarten.
I thought that here at DT everyone had accepted that preferences differ and that any one's opinion is valid and not in any way better or worse than the next one.
It's lovely that Ellipse is offering all these layout options because there are indeed a lot of people who like a split shift (even non-HHKB users) or 1u backspace. Just be happy that there will be an F keyboard that can fit your preference instead of whining about other layouts you don't need. Everyone else is not wrong, just different.

[scottc]

Elrick's fanatical hatred for things that he doesn't personally like aside, I still think the original question begs a better answer: why is it $15 for both printed and blank HHKB add-on sets when the unprinted set represents a small fraction of the printed set? That doesn't seem logical at all considering that the 1.75u mold would be very much paid for by all of the caps locks on every other board.

[seebart]

A general question here to Ellipse and everyone here since I'm not following this thread: how many keyboards have been produced and how many have been sold? I'd really like to get some feedback from a buyer.

[Ratfink]

A general question here to Ellipse and everyone here since I'm not following this thread: how many keyboards have been produced and how many have been sold? I'd really like to get some feedback from a buyer.

None have been fully produced except for Ellipse's prototypes. Production is taking longer than expected, which is exactly what I expected. I think a couple hundred have sold .

[Ellipse]

Correct Ratfink. There are over 200 keyboard orders (over $105,000 in orders). The thousands of barrels and flippers finished production (photos posted earlier in the thread). The die cast metal case mold photos were posted a few days ago (the cases are expected to go into production this week). There were significant production delays on the factory's side on the die cast molds which put the project behind schedule.

I am extending the deadline to give time for early bird feedback before the final round closes (at least 1-2 months) so that you can hear others' opinions before making a decision if you'd like.

[LewisR]

It's lovely that Ellipse is offering all these layout options because there are indeed a lot of people who like a split shift (even non-HHKB users) or 1u backspace. Just be happy that there will be an F keyboard that can fit your preference instead of whining about other layouts you don't need. Everyone else is not wrong, just different.

I'm still wondering if I should do the HHKB layout JUST for the split right shift (I am doing the F77). I basically want standard ANSI, but the right shift is a bit of a waste to me. I could have an extra key with an otherwise standard ANSI layout. Also, I think I would like to put an FN key where the capslock is and just maybe bury the capslock in that 1U space next to the right shift.

[Ellipse]

Yep LewisR that is possible, just select HHKB layout in the order form and make a note of what you wanted above (otherwise standard ANSI, etc.). You can map any key with xwhatsit's GUI.

[seebart]

Thank you for your feedback.

[Hypersphere]

Correct Ratfink. There are over 200 keyboard orders (over $105,000 in orders). The thousands of barrels and flippers finished production (photos posted earlier in the thread). The die cast metal case mold photos were posted a few days ago (the cases are expected to go into production this week). There were significant production delays on the factory's side on the die cast molds which put the project behind schedule.

I am extending the deadline to give time for early bird feedback before the final round closes (at least 1-2 months) so that you can hear others' opinions before making a decision if you'd like.

How will it work for folks like me who already ordered keyboards with the standard cases who might wish to purchase keyboards with the compact cases, but who would like to see pics/videos of the keyboards in compact cases before making a decision? What will the schedule be for orders for keyboards with compact cases or for the compact cases alone?

[lot_lizard]

How will it work for folks like me who already ordered keyboards with the standard cases who might wish to purchase keyboards with the compact cases, but who would like to see pics/videos of the keyboards in compact cases before making a decision? What will the schedule be for orders for keyboards with compact cases or for the compact cases alone?

I am very interested in this answer as well... I am assuming the lack of progress on the mini xWhatsit is a pending factor.

At this point Ellipse (not to put you on the spot), what is the drop dead date for mini xWhatsit progress impacting the PCB (due to the pitch change of the cable)? Originally I had hoped that the early bird would only need a the compact case if I wanted to tighten the F77... But it is looking more and more like it will need the compact case + PCB + mini controller. Also... are we reusing the same top and bottom assembly plates in the compact design? If not, the only synergy would be the flippers and barrels, and I would be more inclined to just buy an additional board (for the compact) if that is the case (which is definitely not ideal).

Moral... Assuming no change from today, what is the answer to Hypersphere's question, and when do we HAVE to have the mini xWhatsit resolved? I think we are rapidly reaching an "all hands on deck" moment...

[Ellipse]

Good news on that front lot_lizard - I've been testing wcass and phosphorglow's updated controller prototype since Friday and it is working well now with no freezing. Wcass straightened out some of the trace lines and spread apart the USB connector and the crystal.

A year or two ago joc put together in my opinion the definitive firmware update for the Model F's with an alternative debounce filter and he is currently working on updating it to be compatible with the smaller controllers. Interestingly the larger controllers and the ultra compact xwhatsits work 100% with the original 0.9.0 written by xwhatsit but joc's firmware only works well with the original controllers for some reason, despite virtually no changes in the schematic (just some package changes to my knowledge). This firmware is important because some xwhatsit controller users report character ghosting on certain computers and motherboards and joc's firmware is known to have fixed all issues those people were having, from what I have read, so I'm hoping to make it the default installed firmware for the F62/F77s.

And yes lot_lizard all parts will be interchangeable between original and ultra compact cases, save the bottom inner assembly, now that I expect to be using the ultra compact xwhatsit for all keyboards.

After some more testing I am hoping to order the controllers/PCBs later this week.

And yes Hypersphere my extension is promised for both original and ultra compact keyboards, even if there is a different timing on the deadlines for each - I'd like to give people 1-2 months after ultra compact keyboards are received the chance to place an order with those reviews in mind, even if it is beyond the other deadline. Ideally I keep it to the same deadline in November but I can't say for sure either way.

[lot_lizard]

As always... Thanks for the quick response. I couldn't have more respect for how you have handled this project. A massive... WELL DONE. Tightening up the xwhatsit is a big deal given the flakiness of capacitive sensing. WCass... If you are reading this... Thank you much. And Maxx, we already realize you are a stallion.

PS... I'm really looking forward to the compact F77. For those of us that are fortunate enough to already have 4704's... Adapting designs to something novel is VERY intriguing.

[Ellipse]

Thanks lot_lizard.

And good news - the compact xwhatsit controllers are now problem free! joc just sent me his latest firmware with alternative debounce filter which has 100% fixed all issues. wcass and phosphorglow's work on the updated prototype controller fixed the other issues with voltages.

The one "stuck" 1 ! key was likely user error (my error) as I connected the controller to the capacitive PCB for testing by jumper wires which I now know are probably too long for reliable operation. phosphorglow connected my F77 PCB to the compact xwhatsit controller with shorter wire and the stuck key was resolved.

Thanks again to all the hard work of red, wcass, phosphorglow, and joc for making the compact xwhatsit controller a reality!

[joc]

Here are the patch and hex files. The firmware with debounce threshold 11 will have higher input latency but lower probability of ghosting compared to the firmware with debounce threshold 6.

xwhatsit_model_f_firmware_update_0.9.1.zip

(26.96 KiB) Downloaded 283 times

See the original version here for reference.

[Hypersphere]

@Ellipse: Thanks for your quick and encouraging response.

I look forward to receiving my standard F62 and F77.

I also look forward to seeing pics, videos, and reviews of the F62 and F77 in the compact cases. Then I can decide whether or not to place additional orders for the F62 and/or F77 in compact cases.

Thanks again for your Herculean efforts in creating and managing this extraordinary project.

[alh84001]

Now that the keycaps are not sourced from Unicomp, my OCD brain got to wonder whether it would be feasible to make a full width right shift for the boards with HHKB layout. Useful? Doubtful. Insane? Surely. Megawesome? Totally!

[downtownHippie]

are the keys on the bottom row (of the TKL) 1x and 1.5x wide? Are there any 1.25x keys on the keyboard (like the key on the right of the space bar on the starndard Unicomp Sun Space Saver)?

[Ellipse]

alh I'll order it if you want to pay for that key to be added to the mold (we're talking low 4 digits here).

downtownHippie I am producing 1.25U keys which can be used (they will leave some space though). The bottom row is all 1.5U and 1U.

GH user scumyc paid for the extra tooling for a custom bottom row layout that is available to anyone who wants it, and at the same cost (just order the HHKB option to cover the extra keys and make a note that you would like the scumyc layout):
Bottom row: 1.5, 1.25, 1.25, 1.25, 5.75, 1, 1, 1, 1

scumnc layout.png (28.31 KiB) Viewed 6047 times

[Elrick]

(just order the HHKB option to cover the extra keys and make a note that you would like the scumyc layout):

LOL, Did I read this right, that you can get an "HHKB Scumy Layout" .

Oh Ellipse, you are a very funning individual here considering that the HHKB is indeed a very Scummy Layout to begin with .

I know all the HHKB owners hate my guts but what can you do........ you lot are always so serious when it comes to that awful HHKB kiddie keyboard. Just can never understand that sort of devotion to a tiny thorpe.

[downtownHippie]

downtownHippie I am producing 1.25U keys which can be used (they will leave some space though). The bottom row is all 1.5U and 1U.

Thanks - 1.5u and 1u all the way across is what I want to hear.

I am still deciding how I feel about not having the function key row though.

[tentator]

Hi Ellipse,
So did I understand it right that if I want to order a f62 kishsaver I've time till end of month but if I want it in the compact aluminium case I've time some couple of months more?
Also question about split right shift: is that 2U and available only stepped?

[wcass]

A right shift is 2.75 units wide. With that you can have a single 2.75 wide key (standard) - or 1 unit key plus 1.75 unit key (standard split) - or 1.75 unit key plus 1 unit key (HHKB split).

1.75 unit key is un-stepped. This keycap is almost as rare as a Kisksaver.

[tentator]

uh an 1.75u ibm bs cap.. indeed rare I see..
I'd be interested in the hhkb split.. also a question about the caps lock if that one is also unstepped, thanks.

and what about orders?