Model MF - GB CLOSED

[mike52787]

still havent gotten my invoice, but will pay as soon as I do

[Ir0n]

Oo people are already getting invoices? This project is moving so quick.

[Techno Trousers]

Yep, invoices are starting to go out. The official close of the GB is December 4, so this will be one of the shortest GBs I've ever participated in!

[lot_lizard]

Oo people are already getting invoices? This project is moving so quick.

It's taking me a little bit to review everything and create validated invoices. I just want to make sure everything makes sense to both sides (one-by-one). Lots of parts and options. Moving along at a reasonable clip though.


On 12/5 (or shortly after), I want to start production of at least several parts. So we don't want to be held up by staggering payments. It's not fair to anyone. Not trying to put pressure on folks, but we aren't here to waffle

[mike52787]

Paid

[drevyek]

Sent my info; added a note on the order.

[Ir0n]

Do you still have all those XT shells and stuff? I was going to ask in my PM and forgot, but I don't want to flood your PM box at the moment so I thought I'd ask here.

If you do how much are those? I might be able to put one back together...I need one for my 5150.

[vometia]

This is really awesome news! I'm so looking forward to finally getting to use a Model F in a sane layout.

And a quick word for anyone who doesn't know, but make sure you get Paypal to bill your card in USD as their exchange rates suck: they quietly add on about 3-3.5% (I forget which) currency conversion fee which is typically a lot more than your card issuer will charge. It can be a bit tricky to find where to change the billing option (surprise!) but if you copy the following link (I didn't make it clickable so you can see it's not taking you anywhere bad; and this one's for UK buyers but I imagine other regions' links will be similar) and select "conversion options" that should do the trick. Do check your issuer's exchange rate and additional charges first though! It'll probably be a lot less than Paypal's (it worked out at over £5 cheaper for my order) but it's always expedient to check first.

Code: Select all

https://www.paypal.com/uk/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_profile-merchant-pull-funding&buyer_hub

[Khers]

Thanks for the tip, vometia!

I'd rather not pay PayPal's exorbitant fees and was looking for something like that a while back but failed miserably in my search and thought it was something PP didn't offer. So, once again, thanks a bunch!

[Wodan]

You can set the "Charge CC in original currency" as a default option but as a German PayPal user, I am required to also enter a German bank account to receive full PayPal capabilities. And this bank account is ALWAYS the default payment option for me so I have to change it to CC manually every time - intentionally because CC fees are much higher than taking the money from a bank account. When paying through my bank account, they automatically use their VERY bad conversion rate and charge my accound in EUR. Make sure you don't fall for this one as well.

[lot_lizard]

So I am about 1/3 of the way through the invoices, and have to say... this is SO much less painless than I was anticipating. I have a script for generating the invoices, but you guys are awesome at helping validate and making sure both sides are in complete agreement quickly. Just want to say thanks for making it "simple". Also, the invoices are paid in literally minutes on average from when they are sent out. If I would have known that, I would have waited.

We want to hit the ground running with as many parts in production as we can on 12/5 (the day after GB ends.. closes on Sunday for multiple reasons), and it looks like that will be little issue at this point.

Also, we broke through our 100th kit a bit ago, so we are officially not a bust in anyones eyes from a production profile. Again... just wanted to say thanks. The tinkering is the fun part, but this is more fun than I expected because of everyone involved.

[Phenix]

The add-on option for 55g springs: Are these lighter than F springs (IIRC weighted at 70g)?

[lot_lizard]

The add-on option for 55g springs: Are these lighter than F springs (IIRC weighted at 70g)?

the F would be approximately 62, M closer to 68 from my tests on average. But my tests are less sophisticated than HaaTa's


EDIT: and to qualify the spring run. We are going to be under 60, but the target is 55-60. We are calling them 55g to give it a name. This is a bit of guess as to how well it will work. On paper it looks sound, but it's EXPENSIVE to make a single spring for testing (might as well make 5000+ at the same cost). I have the dimensions and ratios for a 57g switch by math, and we are sending in a handful of original F springs to our producer, along with my measurements of the original, and the revision. Their engineers will work with me to validate at no cost (not normal). It seems like a promising move to experiment at .10 a spring. I have faith it will functionally work well. Whether we like it better than 62... No one knows. No one has ever tried. It's the one untested bit in all of this. If it is a homerun, you'll wish you had done it. If it sucks, you'll wish you had your 8-10 dollars back. Total gamble. Either way... you are at least contributing to science

[Phenix]

Even that would fit, as I would like if they were a little bit lighter..

[fohat]

Just to clarify, I am sure that this has already been discussed:

The current run of "kit" includes standard Model F springs and barrels, loose, both cleaned?
With springs lubed but not flippers (aka pivot plates)?

Does this mean that you are removing the springs and re-attaching them after cleaning?

And/or if replacement springs are purchased, are these shipped loose or re-installed on the pivot plates (aka flippers)?

Removing and replacing springs seems like a ludicrous amount of fussy work, which is why I did not get the lighter springs, although, all things being equal, I would probably prefer them.

[Techno Trousers]

If it is a homerun, you'll wish you had done it. If it sucks, you'll wish you had your 8-10 dollars back. Total gamble. Either way... you are at least contributing to science

I'm in for $40 of springs and even if it doesn't work out this initial run, I wouldn't mind. This is definitely a worthwhile experiment, especially since if it works you will already have a tested and working spring prepared for a future manufacturing run of new barrels, flippers, and springs (for flat plate BS).

[lot_lizard]

@fohat... Let me respond tonight/tomorrow on the spring bit (only have access to the phone at the moment).

Received a package today from PCBway (surprisingly fast). Note that these don't have any of silk screen notes and propaganda, but should work nicely for testing. These would be the desired traces and connectors we are shooting for with WCass's refactored design. Once I get the new controller in, we'll give it a go.

SSK

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Full Size

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[Techno Trousers]

Woohoo, more prototypes!

[Wodan]

Capacitive sensing PCB are such a piece of art. I remember i$ showed me his design files at the German Keyboard Meetup and he was so passionate about it ... for a good reason. It's like looking at a giant riddle that has been masterfully solved.

[002]

Capacitive sensing PCB are such a piece of art.

Agreed
I love looking at them for some reason. Here are some Topre ones:

Spoiler:

Vintage Topre (paper phenol) vs modern (glass epoxy):


Short-throw PCB with spring and standard sized spring for size reference:

SPEZ EDIT: May as well jump in to ask: lot_lizard I know you are busy but can you share any details about the case project that will follow once this one is done and dusted?

[lot_lizard]

Couldn't agree more on the PCB front. It is one time that I wish I had a light table to really appreciate the layers since they are translucent. i$ really did a nice job, and WCass did great job refactoring it for our specific need on this project.

The current run of "kit" includes standard Model F springs and barrels, loose, both cleaned?
With springs lubed but not flippers (aka pivot plates)?

Does this mean that you are removing the springs and re-attaching them after cleaning?

And/or if replacement springs are purchased, are these shipped loose or re-installed on the pivot plates (aka flippers)?

Removing and replacing springs seems like a ludicrous amount of fussy work, which is why I did not get the lighter springs, although, all things being equal, I would probably prefer them.

Sorry for the delay responding to this. The lighter stainless steel springs will be loose, and not attached in the originals place. We don't yet know how much we are going to like them, and it would be a good move when you got them in to try on a few flippers first to see what you really thought before doing them in any sort of bulk for the whole board.


For the cleaning, dry lubing, and reattaching of the originals... everything you have above is correct. I have a tool I have made that will let me do 10-12 (can't remember which... it's in the shop) at a time, but even then it will take several hours to get them back together for this many. I will alternate between loading up the laser cutter with our foam layers, running the 3d printer, and this flipper assembly process for a few days over my holiday break (taking in some of the college football bowl games along the way). Will be a busy few days, but it is relaxing work.

For yourself, I would expect it to take 30 minutes to 1 hour to replace the springs on the flippers for a single board if doing by hand (based on my experiences so far). So as you say "fussy work" for sure. How bearable that is will vary

[Khers]

Those PCBs look stunning; Glad I went with green everything

[lot_lizard]

Those PCBs look stunning; Glad I went with green everything

Each of these (green/black/white) will have have varying silkscreens to compliment the color. I know I am being a bit of brat, but I'm not going to show these little bits until we have closed and are on the way to producing. Something to make it a little fun along the way. Can't be a complete "prom night put out"

[Ir0n]

Paid

Edit: Did anyone do chromate tops? I was thinking about it, but didn't think it would hold up as well as the powder coating.

[lot_lizard]

Did anyone do chromate tops? I was thinking about it, but didn't think it would hold up as well as the powder coating.

Several actually... I have some metrics/charts in the 3rd post of this thread. My FAQs are in the works, but the invoicing has held me up a bit. The charts are very similar currently to what is shown (little movement in percentages).

[ohaimark]

I can't wait to be invoiced... One of the only times I'll say that in my lifetime.

[Phenix]

I also cant wait to get invoiced

I went with white pcbs.. Now im eager to get to see one.
awesome paid attention to details!

[Ir0n]

I also cant wait to get invoiced

I went with white pcbs.. Now im eager to get to see one.
awesome paid attention to details!

I can't wait to see those either lol mine has a bit of a candy cane theme going on so far.

[lot_lizard]

Spoiler:

No one has ordered a Christmas edition yet (red top plate, green back plate, and white side spacers) , but if you did, I would probably deny the request anyway

The Italy edition

I kind of like the spin BinaryHalibut put on my mocking. Just needs some racing stripes and a number

[POTV]

Chromate is the new black - and lasts longer in the hostile nordic climate