F104+SSK+122+62+77+50+Ergo orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

JP! · 29 May 2020, 16:28

One idea might be to spray some matte clearcoat paint as a protective layer before use. Wear marks just mean you are legit. Per Ellipse's comment regarding F107's I could tell mine was repainted long ago.

If the wear is a deal breaker I'd suggest having it repainted by an auto body shop. I mean I had an entire desk done with urethane paint along with a textured finish which they had never even done before and figured out (special additive required).

Chalba · 30 May 2020, 19:43

Not that I want to mess with my industrial gray case when it comes, but say I decide to sand off the powder coating completely and try shining/polishing the metal underneath, does anyone know what that would look like/has anyone tried it?

ddrfraser1 · 30 May 2020, 20:22

I think that would look sick. Do it.

Ellipse · 30 May 2020, 20:42

Here are the bare zinc cases (already claimed for these samples but you can of course remove the paint of yours - not sure about sanding). Might want a clear coat or something to protect it.

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ddrfraser1 · 30 May 2020, 21:12

I watch a lot of restore vids on YouTube. They often will polish blades to a mirror finish by going from 1000 to 2000 to 3000 etc all the way up to 5000 grit sandpaper. Not sure how it would look on cast zinc but I’m sure it would be a thing of rare beauty.

consensual-penis · 30 May 2020, 21:28

Ellipse wrote: 30 May 2020, 20:42 Here are the bare zinc cases (already claimed for these samples but you can of course remove the paint of yours - not sure about sanding). Might want a clear coat or something to protect it.

20160714_195852 - Copy - Copy (2).jpg
20160714_201105 - Copy - Copy (2).jpg

Would I have any issues if I got my board cerakoted? I think it would look pretty cool, but I want to make sure that I wouldn't have any issues with the internals going back into the case.

ddrfraser1 · 30 May 2020, 22:05

consensual-penis wrote: 30 May 2020, 21:28
Ellipse wrote: 30 May 2020, 20:42 Here are the bare zinc cases (already claimed for these samples but you can of course remove the paint of yours - not sure about sanding). Might want a clear coat or something to protect it.

20160714_195852 - Copy - Copy (2).jpg
20160714_201105 - Copy - Copy (2).jpg
Would I have any issues if I got my board cerakoted? I think it would look pretty cool, but I want to make sure that I wouldn't have any issues with the internals going back into the case.

You could just get it powder coated. I’ve never cerakoted a 4704. Not sure what the pros and cons are.

depletedvespene · 30 May 2020, 22:42

funkmon wrote: 25 May 2020, 02:38 Now here's the LTT problem: do we want James, the ergonomic freak, to do the review, or Luke, the normal mechanical keyboard guru who's a bit out of touch with the scene?

Neither are ideal. I bet Linus would love them though.

Neither. James would spew crap, Luke would have no idea, and Linus would think it's "too heavy for a rubber dome keyboard".

Chalba · 31 May 2020, 05:44

Ellipse wrote: 30 May 2020, 20:42 Here are the bare zinc cases (already claimed for these samples but you can of course remove the paint of yours - not sure about sanding). Might want a clear coat or something to protect it.

Oh MY! I.. I think I may have a project.

consensual-penis · 01 Jun 2020, 22:17

something tells me that I'm not one of the lucky ones.

I'm slightly sad now.

Twst · 01 Jun 2020, 23:23

Teasing..

ddrfraser1 · 02 Jun 2020, 01:55

Chalba wrote: 30 May 2020, 19:43 Not that I want to mess with my industrial gray case when it comes, but say I decide to sand off the powder coating completely and try shining/polishing the metal underneath, does anyone know what that would look like/has anyone tried it?

Something like this?

: 1.PNG (4.75 MiB) Viewed 8728 times

Ellipse · 02 Jun 2020, 07:18

Attached are the 0.9.2 xwhatsit firmware files for alternative debounce 6 and 11. These files include joc's alternative debounce updates from the 0.9.1 update and pandrew's recent work fixing the firmware layer bug. I have recompiled these firmware files to show a keyboard as having version 0.9.2 in the xwhatsit GUI program. Big thanks to forum member pandrew for fixing the firmware layer bug.

Also are some basic instructions that someone helped me put together on how to create a hex firmware file with all the patch files and how to run the capsense GUI on linux (with the usual disclaimers - instructions are for informational purposes only, should not be construed as technical advice or recommendations).

Yesterday I confirmed that the xwhatsit GUI utility still runs on the latest Windows, Mac, and Linux.

daijoubu · 02 Jun 2020, 08:29

Ellipse wrote: 28 May 2020, 19:17 Has anyone else noticed issues with the powdercoating, for those using these keyboards often?

Over 200 keyboards have been mailed, some of which were mailed last year and have been in use since then. So far one case has been shared.

I have been keeping in touch with many of you over email and PM and have not seen one other report of this.

Mine has been immaculate since having it, and it is my daily driver. It did not came perfect as there are some scratched below, but nothing major and that would be attributed to handling rather than the powder coating quality itself.

I notice the speckled powder coating job being good enough to resist wear and tear scratches too (micro scratches).

Ellipse · 02 Jun 2020, 21:08

Solenoid driver xwhatsit update:

As a note I just ordered a small run of xwhatsit solenoid drivers, and am looking into having the solenoids themselves custom made. They can now be ordered on the project web site, and the US shipping cost is included on the project web site (contact me for international shipping quotes (will cost $15 to $20 most likely - may be best to ship a bunch in one package on each continent to save a lot on shipping). More details here:

https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product ... ontroller/

These should start shipping next month, but will be low priority compared to getting out keyboards. Fortunately they are far easier to QC and ship than a keyboard. If the dye sub keys arrive then, these will ship out more slowly.

Attached is a photo of an old xwhatsit solenoid driver in one of my beam spring keyboards.

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Twst · 03 Jun 2020, 00:35

Awesome Ellipse. And funny you should mention it. I’ve been working on a DIY solenoid solution. But great to have an option delivered with the keyboards.

I have powered the solenoid and buzzer in my board with a simple circuit hooked up to the xwhatsit controller.
This might not be the best or the only way for doing this, but it works for me. Have prepared a little writeup for how I did make it work and what is needed. Figured someone would be interested. This could easily be adapted to other boards, and even teensys running QMK.
The circuit is made just from reading up on solenoids. I take no responsibility for your keyboard or computer. Modify and add a solenoid+buzzer at your own risk.

Here is the shematics for it all.

: schematics.jpg (3.19 MiB) Viewed 8495 times

There are a lot of ways to work out a driving board. Xwhatsit’s driver board is the obvious choice, @kmnov2017 used a relay that’s easy and elegant, and should work just as good. I have chosen a mosfet instead of a relay, because it’s what I had in hand. And I prefer a quicker switching circuit for a current hungry relay with moving parts.

In my schematics I use a N-channel mosfet as a relay to switch the low current from the xwhatsit pin #4 with the higher current off the USB.
Parts here are chosen for what I had in my stash. Beeing an DIY guy, I have a few piles of started projects, and projects I never got around to even start. The mosfet I found in a bin of leftovers from several amplifier builds.

Bill of material in this project:
Q1 N-channel MOSFET IRFP240
D1 Diode IN4004
R1 Resistor 1K Ohm
R2 Resistor 12k Ohm
SW1 Switch SPDT
Solenoid https://www.ebay.com/itm/0837L-06K-6V-0 ... 1967978003
Arduino Nano
LS1 Speaker 50ohm 0,5w
PCB Experiment type. Point-to-point soldering would also work.
You will need a soldering iron and some hook up wires as well.

The solenoid I used here is specced at 6v, but works fine on the 5V provided by USB. It draws around 110mA at 5V (measured) and is a tight fit.

Spoiler:

There might be other solenoids that could work with this circuit, but not all will fit in the keyboard. You are looking for a push/pull with the operating voltage around 5V and a short throw. If you stay within the limits of the USB standard current wise, 500mA you should be fine. Boosting the voltage is also fine for more oomph or for a higher voltage solenoid. But take care to calculate the power usage.

For Q1 almost any N-channel mosfet should do, I simply choose what I had on hand and it’s likely overkill for this application. The same goes for D1. The Diode provides circuit protection if there is a build up of stored energy in the solenoid.
The R1 is for protecting the xwhatsit controller, it limits the current going to the gate of Q1. And in case of circuit failure, it will hopefully help not to fry your keyboard controller. Any value from 100ohms to 1k ohms would work here.
R2 is not really necessary, but it should help keep the solenoid from going off when not triggered, choose a value around 10k.

Building the circuit board from an experiment PCB should be straight forward, one could fan out the components as you like. I tried to make it compact.

Spoiler:

If you want the buzzer, an arduino nano is a neat little programmable driver. If not - you won’t need the switch, arduino or the speaker. Just hook up the mosfet drain directly to the solenoid and diode. Leave out the solenoid and switch if you only want the buzzer.

I am not going in depth here on programming the arduino, but here is the code I used for mine. Frequency is totally tuneable if you want another tone. One could even program the board to play different tunes every other keypress. I tried to add a boot tune to my board, but it was mostly annoying..
I settled at 550Hz, it gives a somewhat deeper sound than the buzzer originally in the IBM 4704. Tweak as you like

Code: Select all

int buttonPin;
const int buzzer = 2; //speaker on pin 2
void setup()
{
  buttonPin = 3; //signal from mosfet on pin 3
  pinMode(buttonPin, INPUT_PULLUP);
  pinMode(buzzer, OUTPUT);
}

void loop()
{
  if(digitalRead(buttonPin) == LOW)
  {
  tone(buzzer, 550); // Freqency
  delay(20);        // Beep lenght
  noTone(buzzer);     // Stop signal
  }

}

Then simply have one of the outputs from the switch go to D3 on the arduino, and hook up the speaker to the D2 and ground(GND).
The little speaker I used came from a car parking sensor. You can probably use whatever fits inside. The bigger the better.

Spoiler:

Hooking up to the keyboard is done at the xwhatsits controller expansion header.
Pin 4 carries the signal to the driver board.
Pin 6 is the GND
Pin 1 is 5v straight off the USB port. This is identified on the PCB by having a square solder mask. (GND opposite corner)

Spoiler:

For mounting the solenoid inside the chassis I drilled(sorry Ellipse!) two holes and secured it with a small zip-tie.

Spoiler:

I tried to make it work with the hole already there for the extended feets, but that would mean a screw head sticking out on the underside making all kinds of scratch to my desks. The zip tie is thin enough on the underside to not extend higher than the cork feet. So it won’t make the board wobble.
A strong double sided tape might do for securing the solenoid, but that could loosen over time so I went with a little more invasive approach.

Spoiler:

Speaker mounts itself with its own magnet to the steel assembly. So just slap it in there and you will be fine.

By taking the cable out the square recess, you can fit the switch in the round hole where the cable normally goes without any drilling. Locks in place without the nut.

Spoiler:

For the xwhatsit software I have settled at 45 ms extend time and 90 ms retract time. Might tune this some more.

Spoiler:

kmnov2017 · 03 Jun 2020, 00:57

The relay is truly the cheapest way to get a solenoid to work. These cost 1 or 2 euros and even have a built in solenoid within them. If you need a bit of extra oomph, then a solenoid can be bought off ebay/AliExpress/adafruit for just a few euros. As long as you buy a solenoid that runs off 5V, a relay is all you need.
You can even use a transistor which costs a few cents(!) to run a solenoid.

Here are a few links

Solenoid https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33047338538.html

Relay http://s.aliexpress.com/ENnQJ3Ab

XMIT · 03 Jun 2020, 01:22

ddrfraser1 wrote: 30 May 2020, 22:05
consensual-penis wrote: 30 May 2020, 21:28
Ellipse wrote: 30 May 2020, 20:42 Here are the bare zinc cases (already claimed for these samples but you can of course remove the paint of yours - not sure about sanding). Might want a clear coat or something to protect it.

20160714_195852 - Copy - Copy (2).jpg
20160714_201105 - Copy - Copy (2).jpg
Would I have any issues if I got my board cerakoted? I think it would look pretty cool, but I want to make sure that I wouldn't have any issues with the internals going back into the case.
You could just get it powder coated. I’ve never cerakoted a 4704. Not sure what the pros and cons are.

I powder coated a 4704 a while back. Was totally fine. pyrelink has one. viewtopic.php?f=62&t=11432&start=

I've Cerakoted thin aluminum plate (daskeyboard top bezel) and a Model M's PVC case. Cerakote is thinner and applies at a much lower temperature. viewtopic.php?t=11573

Ellipse · 03 Jun 2020, 06:23

Just a few photos of two shipments of multiple keyboards in the various stages of being mailed out overseas (these went out last month to some people including GH/DT forum members!).

It's tricky to find the best box for the job!

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darkcruix · 03 Jun 2020, 12:51

Looking forward in holding them in my hands ... I will post an update once I have them

Ellipse · 03 Jun 2020, 22:37

My new imgur post:

Help! Lots of key output when I plug in my new keyboard! + Emergency way to do a clean firmware load

https://imgur.com/a/kth6dHt

A few people asked me how to do an emergency clean firmware load. For example if you store the threshold value too low and you have a layout already programmed, dozens of keys will send signals to your computer randomly and it could lock up your keyboard.

I have provided step by step instructions with photos and screenshots on how to go through all the steps to get your xwhatsit powered keyboard up and running again.

I'd definitely appreciate people taking a look at it and letting me know their feedback/corrections.

tentator · 03 Jun 2020, 23:16

Hi Ellipse!
I wanted to inform you that actually pandrei also made a small nice utility that should compile in Win, Mac and Linux (it's QT5) that is able to reset the xwhatsit without the need to press physically the reset pads i.e. without needing to open the case. Maybe this might help as well.
I think this is what happened also to webwit when testing pandrei's change to the original fw..
Now the util has even a checkbox to automatically enter bootloader mode at detection, so should work..
Somebody up for testing it?

Kr,
tent:wq

Ellipse · 03 Jun 2020, 23:35

Yes that would be good; the problem is the keyboard spams keys as soon as it's plugged in, if the xwhatsit threshold is set too low. If there's a way to automatically send the xwhatsit into bootloader when it's connected that would be great.

consensual-penis · 04 Jun 2020, 04:20

so does qmk have to be flashed on these boards?

tentator · 04 Jun 2020, 08:21

You can as soon as we have finished testing phase and are satisfied sure!

tentator · 04 Jun 2020, 10:23

Ellipse wrote: 03 Jun 2020, 23:35 Yes that would be good; the problem is the keyboard spams keys as soon as it's plugged in, if the xwhatsit threshold is set too low. If there's a way to automatically send the xwhatsit into bootloader when it's connected that would be great.

correct that's what this utility should do. I've sent you a link, try it out if you can reproduce the "spamming" emergency mode and see if the util manages to recover automatically.. that would be great for people afraid of opening the case..
again thanks to pandrei++

tent:wq

Twst · 04 Jun 2020, 10:30

tentator wrote: 04 Jun 2020, 10:23
Ellipse wrote: 03 Jun 2020, 23:35 Yes that would be good; the problem is the keyboard spams keys as soon as it's plugged in, if the xwhatsit threshold is set too low. If there's a way to automatically send the xwhatsit into bootloader when it's connected that would be great.
correct that's what this utility should do. I've sent you a link, try it out if you can reproduce the "spamming" emergency mode and see if the util manages to recover automatically.. that would be great for people afraid of opening the case..
again thanks to pandrei++

tent:wq

Awesome work!
Looking forward seeing the whole QMK package you are working on out in the wild.

Please do tell if you need any more testers

tentator · 04 Jun 2020, 10:37

Twst wrote: 04 Jun 2020, 10:30 Please do tell if you need any more testers

Are you by any chance on a Mac?

Twst · 04 Jun 2020, 10:48

tentator wrote: 04 Jun 2020, 10:37 Are you by any chance on a Mac?

Sorry! Linux..
Could boot up windows though

tentator · 04 Jun 2020, 10:52

me too! no worries!