Round 7 / ALGOL-style / Deadline 2018-11-30

[meanderingthalweg]

Check out the white-on-green "O" in this pic made from caps from a recent PMK grab bag sale. Is this a pre-production sample of Round 7??
https://m.imgur.com/a/i2JHV#12rY6wi

[7bit]

Can't see anything.

[7bit]

7bit, So it looks like one of my payments to Mashby almost a year earlier still isn't registered. Can you check on it? Or should I do a PP dispute and repay to the new payment email?

Please not!

People who want a refund, please pm user 7bot:
REFUND

and please wait until we have the money together to send the refund.

We will pay for Round 6 phase 2 production within the next week and afterwards will be able to send money back to people who want to jump off a train that has not yet even been scheduled for construction.

[meanderingthalweg]

Can't see anything.

IMG_8627.JPG (851.68 KiB) Viewed 7289 times

[doom2]

So if I put in a R7 order, what color scheme/set should I get to minimize wait time? I really like the violet/cream colors but just want whatever is being made first!

[zslane]

All Round 7 color schemes have an equal wait time right now, which is infinite. I guess you can take your pick.

[7bit]

Can't see anything.

IMG_8627.JPG

Those violett on cream keys are the grab bag keys that had not been shipped to me, but instead went into the SP grab bags.


There must also be some cream on violett keys, larger than 1.5 units. If all grab bag key purchaseres join together, they might be able to make complete kits.

[hansichen]

He is talking about the O key with space cadet legends. So the O with "wrong direction" E above it. It looks like the normal sph keycap of round 6 but it has the green color of round 7.

[doom2]

All Round 7 color schemes have an equal wait time right now, which is infinite. I guess you can take your pick.

What are the blockers? Round 6 not being done yet? Not meeting MOQ? SP's already crazy lead time?

[meanderingthalweg]

He is talking about the O key with space cadet legends. So the O with "wrong direction" E above it. It looks like the normal sph keycap of round 6 but it has the green color of round 7.

Exactly! It looks like it was intended for this set...
http://www.7bit.info/algol/png/ALGOL_TK ... NCREAM.png

[zslane]

All Round 7 color schemes have an equal wait time right now, which is infinite. I guess you can take your pick.

What are the blockers? Round 6 not being done yet? Not meeting MOQ? SP's already crazy lead time?

The blocker is that Signature Plastics has declined to run Round 7. As far as I know there are no plans to redesign Round 7 for a different manufacturer and keycap family (like, say, GMK). You are essentially waiting for SP to reconsider their position, which may or may not ever change.

[7bit]

First we pay for phase 2 production and then we see.


All depends on how much money we get together.

[doom2]

Dang. Was hoping to finally get in on a full 108-key R6 or R7 kit now that I can afford it but guess it wasn't meant to be...

[7bit]

This group buy did not end, but instead has not started yet.


Long talk short: If this rolls off for real, you will be able to order anything you want.

[LXXXIX]

So I see in the OP there's a black and cream colorway, but I don't see it in the site. Am I blind or is it just an idea?

[lightpinkmilk]

Hello,

I know it's a little past 2/28, but is it still possible to get the 25% rebate if I order now? I thought it was in October (when I found out it was after October), but just found out it was at the end of February. I understand if it's not possible to get it since it is past 2/28.

[7bit]

Even if you order right now, you will not get any keys before 2018!


Also: it has still not been decided if SP will produce these keys or not.


However, if you pre-order now, it will only be 20% rebate.

[lightpinkmilk]

Ah, thank you and good luck! Hopefully, it works out c:

[IronSunsetscales]

Keeping my fingers crossed here 7bit, Ordered up two nice sets (IMHO) they can't refuse to make

[Menuhin]

Keeping my fingers crossed here 7bit, Ordered up two nice sets (IMHO) they can't refuse to make

The Rounds by 7bit are so unique - SP had better reconsider and further collaborate with 7bit.

What's more is that SP is getting into a worse and worse situation amidst all the competitions:
They have 3 profiles DCS, DSA, and SA.

• SP's DCS (similar to GMK/Cherry/Gateron) are paper-thin, most users don't want them. And they didn't try to develop a full set of Alps cap - Matias is definitely (really?) pushing out the Alps PBT dyesub in 2017.
• SP's DSA has Matt3o beloved and careful work Granite, but the set suffers from PBT shrinkage issues because of improper tooling. The set is nevertheless still quite popular and they tried to play the same card twice - Granite High-contrast. But China's new low profile XDA in PBT dyesub, targeting at the weaknesses of DSA seem to have made a reasonably good job - in terms of minimal PBT shrinkage and dyesub work. Users have a much cheaper (50% of the price) decent option in the future.
• SP's SA has been huge MassDrop hits, however, they are slow compared to the Chinese. Chinese manufacturers already developed high profile caps similar to SA in both PBT dyesub and ABS doubleshot, and of course with a pricing 50% of the SP 'equivalent' and with production time of only 3 months. With decent QC by qualified enthusiasts for Chinese manufacturers' dyesub work, ABS color choice, and key cap legends, SP will easily be blown out of the water.

SP's strength seems to remain in their color options and color system, DSA ABS and their now less unique SA. Yeah, SP has their other income sources, but I hope their fossil mindset can adapt more quickly realizing the competitions they have to confront.

Spoiler:

MaxKey's high profile keycaps do not look half bad.
http://imgur.com/a/eEF4S

[zslane]

It will be a couple of years before SP feels the effects of competition. For one thing, they have their SA machines running full time until next year. They are already having to decline work because of their current capacity limits. I suspect it will take at least another year before demand for their SA diminishes to the point where they are having to fight the Chinese SA clones for business. Plus, it probably won't be until 2020 before the Chinese reach parity with regard to colors and consistency and customization options that rival SP's.

In any case, I think that even with successful XDA and SA clones, there will be enough DSA and SA demand to keep their machines running. I suspect that SP would be quite happy to simply keep their current manufacturing capacity saturated; growth isn't a primary concern simply due to the difficulties in finding acceptable labor anyway.

[Gray Jian]

These are Chinese SA clones:

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They are not good enough, but the Chinese are repairing quickly. The most important is the price is only 50% than SP. So maybe someday they can produce Round 7.

[Menuhin]

There are also difference in the production time: between the cut-throat Chinese style and the relaxing pace of the green WA lifestyle.

I do want SP to produce Round 7, there are some subtle differences between SA and MaxKey:

Left side blue keys: MaxKey, Right side black keys: SP's SA

Spoiler:

https://imgur.com/a/oqSdz#peU1Iol

[7bit]

Would be interesting to see them in a close up picture or even better side by side with SP keys.

[oknytt]

When I was lurking the /r/mk discord a few days ago, I read that MaxKeys isn't that keen on making custom keys. Ryu got quoted 60 000 CNY + 500 MOQ for 12 extra keys outside MaxKeys normal 119 or 127 keysets, the MOQ got lowered to 300 later on though. Then when he went on to ask about novelties he got quoted 60 000 CNY per custom mold, that's like ~8700 USD per mold... I don't know how well that would work with R7.

[Menuhin]

Given MaxKeys is totally new, it sounds like they were testing the waters.

But they proved themselves about their capability to manufacture novelty keys.
I do agree - Cadet keys etc of R7 will be of a totally different scale.

[zslane]

Those prices don't really make sense to me. Nor the terminology used.

A "mold" is only necessary when an entirely new keycap size/shape is being made, like 2.25u/2.75u in R4 profile (for Shift keys, for instance). Such molds are expensive; as in $5000-7500, depending on who the vendor is.

New legends (like for novelties) don't require "molds". They require "plates" which are engraved with the graphic needed, and they are comparatively cheap. Signature Plastics currently charges ~$75 per plate for custom legends.

Why in the world would MaxKeys quote $8700 per "mold" for novelty legends?

[oknytt]

Yeah, I thought it sounded weird too, just "reporting" what I've read. He specifically used the word mold, but that could just as well be a hasty translation by Ryu given that he conversed in Chinese with the MaxKeys representative. I suppose that they just want to discourage custom key production.

[Menuhin]

Those prices don't really make sense to me. Nor the terminology used.

A "mold" is only necessary when an entirely new keycap size/shape is being made, like 2.25u/2.75u in R4 profile (for Shift keys, for instance). Such molds are expensive; as in $5000-7500, depending on who the vendor is.

New legends (like for novelties) don't require "molds". They require "plates" which are engraved with the graphic needed, and they are comparatively cheap. Signature Plastics currently charges ~$75 per plate for custom legends.

Why in the world would MaxKeys quote $8700 per "mold" for novelty legends?

This is what I referred to as "test the waters".
They perhaps don't know what is going on and want to push the profit margin so high that they fancy to have their generations of family members rely on a few years of this business. Or perhaps they have aversion towards setting a fair price for foreign business partners.

[zslane]

My guess is that something is getting lost in the translation. Either Ryu doesn't know the proper terminology, and asked for new mold prices instead of new legend plate prices, or Ryu is actually trying to make a new mold (like a 6u spacebar) and someone else is referring to it as a "novelty".