F104+SSK+122+62+77+50+Ergo orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

[Muirium]

I wonder how difficult it would be to make a magnetic coupling for USB, like the power-cable coupling on my Macbook Air?

There have been a couple of discussions like that on GH. Although I think that Apple is an Evil Empire, that connection on my wife's Macbook is one of the most marvelous and wonderful inventions that I have seen in recent years. They should be on everything.

But there is probably a patent problem involved.

Apple didn't invent the magnetic power connector. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MagSafe

MagSafe works similarly to the magnetic power connectors that many deep fryers and Japanese countertop cooking appliances from the early 2000s have in order to avoid spilling their dangerously hot contents.

Apple just knows where to rip off great ideas from and put them together into 1 product, then claim they invented everything.

Yeah, like everyone does.

Great artists steal.

The key is to improve it. Rather than do a half arsed job and make it worse, like most…

[Hypersphere]

Great artists steal.

Meanwhile, taking those pictures the other day made me swap the NovaTouch off my desk and get back to Model F as my main board again for the first time in a few months. Now, I do like me a bit of Topre, but I've got to say the Kishsaver is a magical board. It's as big as my Realforce, and at least twice as heavy, but it handles like my HHKB only… so, so very different. Everyone should have one of these. It's a spectacular piece of kit.

Your post reminded me that I have yet to undertake the refurbishing of my Kishsaver. This will include cleaning, sanding and painting the barrel plate, sanding and powder-coating the case, installing and programming the Xwhatsit controller, replacing the keycaps, and possibly installing a detachable USB cable. I need to decide on the type of USB connector first, so that I can make the necessary modifications to the case before it is powder-coated.

It is great that Ellipse is making it possible for more people to enjoy the Kishsaver, although the price will still keep it from becoming the Volkswagen of keyboards. (Indeed, I suppose the price of today's VW would hardly qualify it as the vehicle for everyone).

Like you, I have put away my Novatouch. I've also put away my RF87UB55, and I am back to my silenced HHKB Pro 2, enjoying the springiness and symmetry. However, your comments about your Kishy has tempted me to haul out my XT -- my only usable Model F board at present.

[Ellipse]

The factory is doing some pre-assembly testing of the prototype parts to make sure they fit together - the top/bottom inner assembly, barrels/flippers, and mylar sheet placement (the clear mylar sheet prevents the PCB from touching the steel bottom inner assembly, which could cause a capacitance issue). The foam and the case are not yet ready.

The prototype cases should be completed in 1-2 weeks hopefully and I expect to receive the prototype within 3-4 weeks from now. If a bunch of you hurry with sending payment in the first week after prototypes are fully tested, I may do them in two batches: all orders placed in the first week or two, and then all orders in the remaining two weeks. So the first batch may arrive by Christmas if we do that. Though this would not happen if there is not a big enough order batch to place after the first two weeks. I know there is a lot of hope to get these by Christmas

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[darkspider]

When the prototype of cases come, i want to know there is enough space to put my solenoid in.

[dzhoou]

They already have them, just for the wrong end of the cable - http://www.magnetic-usb.com/

Yeah, the middle!



I like their expert marketing:

Connected fast.
magneticUSB scores twice in terms of speed: With full USB 2.0 480 Mbit/s speed, there are no roadblocks slowing down data transmission between your devices. Moreover, if you use multiple magneticUSB cables, the intelligent magnetic interface enables you to quickly connect and disconnect your devices "on-the-fly".

Translation:

Connected not so fast.

We're so sorry. USB 3 caught us with our undies around our ankles. Who saw that coming? Well, anywho, enjoy the awesome power of the good old solid 2.0 version of USB that came out 15 years ago instead. Don't let anyone tell you it's outdated, because that would really mess up our business plan.

Moreover! (Hey, you'll like this bit.) You cheap bastards could always BUY MORE PLUGS and RAID THAT SHIT UP! What's twice as fast as twice the speed? FOUR FUCKING PLUGS BABY! Don't tell us your external hard drives and whatever other shit it is you hook up is too pussy for raw, pure, unadulterated, marketing bullshit SPEED! Because, like, replace that crap. Loser. Get with the program.

(We're so sorry!)

I see a bright future for these clowns. Who wouldn't want a bunch of ugly nubs like that jammed into all their ports, and a bunch of proprietary cables from a company that won't be around for long by the looks of this?

Meanwhile, what we want is something flush at the keyboard body, with a magnetic action that works more like this:



Concentric circles on a shallow cone might be a good idea.

Nice rant. Made my night :D

[Ellipse]

darkspider anything that fits in the originals should fit in the reproductions, which are built to virtually the same dimensions. Has anyone confirmed the solenoid driver and solenoid fit inside the smaller F62?

[andrewjoy]

The factory is doing some pre-assembly testing of the prototype parts to make sure they fit together .........

testing (2).jpg

testing (1).jpg

Thats amazing, its like going back in time to the 80s.

[Elrick]

Thats amazing, its like going back in time to the 80s.

It's like Back to the Future, Marty .

[Muirium]

It's a sight for sore eyes. I want this to succeed, so we can tackle beamspring's revival next!

Your post reminded me that I have yet to undertake the refurbishing of my Kishsaver.

Get on with it already. The power of Kish compels you! As much as the Model F feel draws me to this board, it's really all about the layout. My SSK gets more use than my other Model Fs. TKL and straight 60% are the golden layouts for me. And indeed this GB…

[Vizir]

Has anyone confirmed the solenoid driver and solenoid fit inside the smaller F62?

anyone?

[Muirium]

I really doubt it. And I have a Kishsaver and a 3276 beamspring.

[andrewjoy]

Speaking from my 107 experience, you could remove the buzzer and the PCB for the solenoid should fit there , as for the thing itself i would not know , i am not in the mood to open both my beamspring and 107 at the moment. My poor ANSI space invader is in bits at the moment as i broke the mini USB port off the pro micro . Have you ever tried to hand solder a mini USB ? I would not recommend it. I have solder paste now will try it.

[Muirium]

That's micro USB…

Don't you have a whole box full of Pro Micros already? They're that cheap. The one thing they have over the Teensy. Well, and the smaller port.

[andrewjoy]

No , but i do have one on the way. i guess i could nab the one off the XT converter now that i have a XT - AT inside it.

[Ellipse]

On the topic of USB cables, is there a lot of interest in braided USB cables for this project? It would be a micro USB to USB cable as the xwhatsit controller uses a micro USB port.

[Muirium]

With appropriate strain relief at the exit hole in the case?

Braiding frays real ugly when worn. I use the standard tough plastic sheathed USB cable Xwhatsit gave me on my Kishsaver (which has his prototype Model F PCB inside, before he added a socket). That cable is strong enough not to need a rubber collar or the like. And I use the Kishsaver's internal cable clamp to protect the PCB from tugs.

[Hypersphere]

It's a sight for sore eyes. I want this to succeed, so we can tackle beamspring's revival next!

Your post reminded me that I have yet to undertake the refurbishing of my Kishsaver.

Get on with it already. The power of Kish compels you! As much as the Model F feel draws me to this board, it's really all about the layout. My SSK gets more use than my other Model Fs. TKL and straight 60% are the golden layouts for me. And indeed this GB…

Yes, I agree! I've been holding back on refurbishing the Kishsaver for at least two reasons: fear of doing something wrong and ruining such a precious item; and bowing to the pressures of my day job, which takes up most of my time and energy.

I, too, have just about given up on all form factors other than TKL and 60%, and 60% has been getting most of my attention. After using my silenced HHKB Pro 2 for lengthy periods, shifting to a TKL throws my sense of symmetry for a loop! Moreover, after growing accustomed to doing without the top F-key row and the navigation island on the right, a TKL overwhelms me with a sense of presenting unnecessary keys and occupying excessive space.

[Muirium]

Well, try putting your Kishsaver and your Realforce 87U back to back on your desk! Very different, but very similar in some ways. Both are a lot bigger than an HHKB.

[andrewjoy]

classic thick beige USB cable

[Muirium]

USB? What's that?




@Ellipse: Will these boards have a nice big metal strain relief inside, like the real Kishsaver, to hold the cable safe against tugs? A 3 kilo keyboard has a LOT of inertia…

[Ellipse]

Yes it will have a strain relief, though I haven't picked out the model yet. I am still trying to find a place to order the recommended part close to the original size. It is tough to find one similar in size to the original.

If anyone can help recommend some options I would appreciate it!

[r0yal]

Man, I would LOVE to have one, but I can't build it...

RIP semi-endgame

[romevi]

Man, I would LOVE to have one, but I can't build it...

RIP semi-endgame

Build? This are already pre-built before they ship. Or did you mean you'd rather build it yourself?

[andrewjoy]

Yes it will have a strain relief, though I haven't picked out the model yet. I am still trying to find a place to order the recommended part close to the original size. It is tough to find one similar in size to the original.

If anyone can help recommend some options I would appreciate it!

I would go with a simple P clip and a threaded hole and a bolt ( with a shake proof washer )



This could be dual purpose as you could use it for the ground point too.

[Muirium]

Good point about grounding (or earthing as we call it here, and I forever accidentally say while trying not to). It's absolutely vital to get it right with Xwhatsit's controller. His PCBs are very sensitive. If they and the mechanism aren't grounded good and tight, the keyboard can emit amazing quantities of nonsense characters in just a fraction of a second! Easily enough to overwhelm a modern computer.

I had some issues with this *cough* with my Kishsaver. I had to double ground it until the bugger was useable. One of these guys can throw you like a wild horse unless that ground is tied right down!

[andrewjoy]

Same for me with my first 122. It was strange as it would work without the case on when not grounded and i think i worked out that i had it further away from the huge monitor with PWM CCFL tubes so less interference.

Grounding is different than earthing in my view. Its called Earth in a AC circuit but i still think it should be referred to as ground in a DC circuit or when referring to RF noise and the likes. I dunno but it just makes more sense as you can have product plugged in that have a 0v ground but are not mains "earth" reference, the ground of the product is in no way connected to the earth pin in your plug. Not all products are like this but thats why i prefer the distinction.

And then you have countries that have stupid mains plugs like this




That have no earth pin at all.

Time to move to the much safer and well designed UK plug.



The best plug...... in the world.

[Ratfink]

Oh no. Please keep these sorts of thinly veiled debates about what country is the best country in the world on more terrible appropriate discussion venues, such as 4chan.

Anyway, this thread is about new model Fs, which look like they're coming along beautifully. I really look forward to seeing the finished product, Ellipse!

[scottc]

I agree, we shouldn't talk about the best country in the world because the Americans would get really upset when they lost

[Muirium]

There is no best country. There isn't even a best plug. I really loathe the great huge daft ones we use here, as Andy and Jeremy Clarkson alike are wrongly convinced are the best on Earth (the planet). They're ludicrously large, and impossible to yank out when you really need to. Electrocution: great failsafe! But American plugs jut their cables straight out of the wall, which is really ugly. We all need something magnetic, global, and that can handshake with the socket to get a nice low voltage of DC when required.

USB C will do in the meantime.

[andrewjoy]

I will say one last thing on the matter, i prefer safety over convenience when it comes to high voltage .

And the Clarkson quite was supposed to be ironic .

Anyway lets get back to what is The best new bucking spring keyboard .... in the world.

Have you considered the grounding ? It is quite important, best to work that out before you prototype the case.