DSA Retro Set (SHIPPED!)

matt3o · 20 May 2013, 17:57

nobody else in EU got them?

fireglow · 20 May 2013, 18:33

Can you tell us how many orders there are from Germany?

MadScienitst46 · 20 May 2013, 18:38

Nothing here yet, although the last point of tracking was LA on 10th of May. So I asume they already arrived in Germany.
The longest time I had to wait for sth from the States was 7weeks though, so I'm not that worried yet.

matt3o · 20 May 2013, 18:42

fireglow wrote:Can you tell us how many orders there are from Germany?

19 From Germany (leading country in EU)

gotbadger · 20 May 2013, 18:45

dirge wrote:
matt3o wrote:next time I'll try to do it from EU
aw god please tell me they are marked at a low price

Think mine might have arrived got a card from the post office today asking me to pay import of £17.70...

MadScienitst46 · 20 May 2013, 18:45

matt3o wrote: 19 From Germany (leading country in EU)

NICE!!!!

matt3o · 20 May 2013, 18:50

gotbadger wrote:
dirge wrote:
matt3o wrote:next time I'll try to do it from EU
aw god please tell me they are marked at a low price
Think mine might have arrived got a card from the post office today asking me to pay import of £17.70...

well, 17.70, that's not too bad.

bpierre · 20 May 2013, 18:55

matt3o wrote:nobody else in EU got them?

Have all EU orders been shipped?

matt3o · 20 May 2013, 19:24

bpierre wrote:
matt3o wrote:nobody else in EU got them?
Have all EU orders been shipped?

not yet. Ron will finish shipping this week I guess.

gotbadger · 20 May 2013, 20:38

So I'm back from the post office and must say these caps look great, much better than in photos for some reason!

Need to do a full count up but everything looks ok so far.

One funny part is that the address on the invoice inside the box (the one i wanted used) does not match the one it was actually sent to. It wasn't a big problem for me but might be a problem for some others.

Daniel · 20 May 2013, 22:19

You should edit your post as this is a public forum...

matt3o · 21 May 2013, 00:03

gotbadger wrote:One funny part is that the address on the invoice inside the box (the one i wanted used) does not match the one it was actually sent to. It wasn't a big problem for me but might be a problem for some others.

probably because your paypal address doesn't match the address you provided when you placed the order.

kwago · 21 May 2013, 16:57

got a wild hair last night right before I went to bed that the numpad kit and ultra cool C64 escape key I purchased was feeling neglected since I only have cherry TKL boards…another victory for DSA's flexibility >:D

dirge · 21 May 2013, 18:41

matt3o wrote:
gotbadger wrote:
dirge wrote:
aw god please tell me they are marked at a low price
Think mine might have arrived got a card from the post office today asking me to pay import of £17.70...
well, 17.70, that's not too bad.

It all does add up. It's not exactly a cheap hobby to start with. Really expect whoever's handling the shipping to have been clear about this at the start. For the sake of writing a different number on a packet we're all going to get bitten by this. Why, when it's that easy to prevent was it not done? I'd love to know.

If this was the other way around the US members would go fucking mental.

fireglow · 21 May 2013, 18:56

I agree, this will definitely be my last groupbuy that involves shipping from the US and all the hassles that come with it.
I'd rather join a groupwith that might have a higher production cost (due to lower units produced), but lower shipping costs.
At least then the money is where we want it to be: The manufacturers of awesome keycaps, instead of shipping companies, etc.

matt3o · 21 May 2013, 18:57

Samwisekoi set up a legal entity to handle the group buy. That helped with paypal (no inbound limits and business API to handle email/shipping/orders/etc). That also means that everything must be done within the borders of legality (ie: declaring a wrong value to customs is considered fraud).

ps: I'm trying to get in touch with GMK for a future EU-GB, but they seem to be ignoring me so far.

dirge · 21 May 2013, 19:39

Right, wasn't aware it had turned into a business.

Keep the pressure on GMK bud, your persistence will pay off I'm sure.

Wraul · 21 May 2013, 19:41

dirge wrote:
matt3o wrote: well, 17.70, that's not too bad.
It all does add up. It's not exactly a cheap hobby to start with. Really expect whoever's handling the shipping to have been clear about this at the start. For the sake of writing a different number on a packet we're all going to get bitten by this. Why, when it's that easy to prevent was it not done? I'd love to know.

If this was the other way around the US members would go fucking mental.

Well it actually it isn't that bad.
I have to dig up $105 before I can pick up my Raindrop sets.
You should always expect that there will be import tax. Makes you feel lucky those times there isn't.

matt3o wrote:Samwisekoi set up a legal entity to handle the group buy. That helped with paypal (no inbound limits and business API to handle email/shipping/orders/etc). That also means that everything must be done within the borders of legality (ie: declaring a wrong value to customs is considered fraud).

ps: I'm trying to get in touch with GMK for a future EU-GB, but they seem to be ignoring me so far.

Yes it's one thing to write down the value in smaller personal dealings. It's a whole other thing when things gets to a more commercial scale. We definitively don't wont the people running group buys getting into trouble.

matt3o · 21 May 2013, 19:52

Wraul wrote:Yes it's one thing to write down the value in smaller personal dealings. It's a whole other thing when things gets to a more commercial scale. We definitively don't wont the people running group buys getting into trouble.

just to be clear. I talked about "legal entity" not a "business" (that implies a margin on the sales). Samwisekoi is still on a loss (and so am I)

gotbadger · 21 May 2013, 20:04

dirge wrote: It all does add up. It's not exactly a cheap hobby to start with.

I'm not that bothered really, sorry if I came off that way. I treat this a hobby not a business so whatever the end cost ends up being so be it (usually best not to work it out)

Wraul · 21 May 2013, 20:06

matt3o wrote:
Wraul wrote:Yes it's one thing to write down the value in smaller personal dealings. It's a whole other thing when things gets to a more commercial scale. We definitively don't wont the people running group buys getting into trouble.
just to be clear. I talked about "legal entity" not a "business" (that implies a margin on the sales). Samwisekoi is still on a loss (and so am I)

Perhaps my use of commercial scale wasn't the best. Sorry.
Professional scale might be a better word?

MadScienitst46 · 21 May 2013, 20:09

Got a notice today that I can fetch a package at the post office. Must be these babies, cause everything else on the way to me should fit my mailbox.
Can't get there in time before Thursday evening though, so I guess I can update with some pics then.
Also, I got no notice telling me to pay any additional money, so I might be lucky this time.

matt3o wrote:... Samwisekoi is still on a loss (and so am I)

That sux. I really appreciate how both of you handled this GB and what you did for this fine community and you shouldn't have any loss. Let me know if i can do sth to help you guys out a bit.

Also big thanks to all lil' helpers out there who helped sorting and packing these keys!!!

dirge · 22 May 2013, 08:20

matt3o wrote:just to be clear. I talked about "legal entity" not a "business" (that implies a margin on the sales). Samwisekoi is still on a loss (and so am I)

Not acceptable that your out of pocket over this, for your hardwork you should be getting something for it. I'd have rather see the attributed tax go to you guys.

With these things I don't so much see it as cheating tax, the cost and value of the product are totally divorced. It's bits of plastic. Maybe in future attribute some of the inbound cost as a donation to setup to reduce price per set to something realistic.

matt3o · 22 May 2013, 08:36

dirge wrote:Not acceptable that your out of pocket over this, for your hardwork you should be getting something for it. I'd have rather see the attributed tax go to you guys.

Regarding samwisekoi he "must" be on a small loss for his no-profit entity not to pay taxes. Me... well... next time I'll know better

Let's just say that I spent a lot for the best set on planet

dirge wrote:With these things I don't so much see it as cheating tax, the cost and value of the product are totally divorced. It's bits of plastic. Maybe in future attribute some of the inbound cost as a donation to setup to reduce price per set to something realistic.

I agree that "value" on customs form is misleading. For a company what that means is "exact amount that has been invoiced", Sam has a Paypal invoice for each order and that is what must be reported to customs office.

Again, I'm trying set up a group buy here in Europe, but it seems that Americans are less prone on buying from EU than we Europeans are on buying from US. So the question would be, would we meet the high GMK MOQ?

LechnerDE · 22 May 2013, 09:19

matt3o wrote:Again, I'm trying set up a group buy here in Europe, but it seems that Americans are less prone on buying from EU than we Europeans are on buying from US. So the question would be, would we meet the high GMK MOQ?

Would be funny if our friends over at Geekhack had to buy a European Set for once plus extra ANSI Kit and international shipping

But you are right, we'll probably never meet MOQ with GMK...

usopia · 22 May 2013, 09:36

...depends on MOQ - and of course which Set it is. If MOQ is 300, we can't reach I think.

TDub · 22 May 2013, 11:26

I don't understand this continuous discussion about marking the packages. It was said before the GB ended that all packages would be marked with their actual value. If the GB organizers won't take the risk of illegally marking the packages lower then that is the end of the discussion. They are the ones liable if shit goes sideway so we have no right to bitch about paying the import tax. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

With a EU Groupbuy coming from America you have the same problem, one big package will have to pay import tax and you will see it on the final price. Using a EU manufacturer like GMK will result in paying the VAT which is almost the same in the end (in most cases I usually ended up just paying the VAT to customs). I know paying taxes sucks, no one likes it, but it is a fact of life. Deal with it.

matt3o · 22 May 2013, 11:37

the EU GB was more a way to cut shipping expenses of course. VAT must be paid anyway.

BimboBB · 22 May 2013, 11:49

matt3o...why dont you just make an EU GB for the DSA Retro Set?

GMK language packs are currently just not possible because of the MOQ issue. So wouldnt spend too much energy on this one. But these DSA Caps seems to be quite nice, even near as thick as GMK caps, and way more easily to handle concerning MOQ.

matt3o · 22 May 2013, 11:54

BimboBB wrote:matt3o...why dont you just make an EU GB for the DSA Retro Set?

GMK language packs are currently just not possible because of the MOQ issue. So wouldnt spend too much energy on this one. But these DSA Caps seems to be quite nice, even near as thick as GMK caps, and way more easily to handle concerning MOQ.

the problem is that we need a new tooling for each legend and it's gonna be freaking expensive. I would have already done an EU set if it were nicely priced.