[IC] IBM Doubleshot Key Cap Set Group Buy?

[Ellipse]

Please note your interest here for :

https://forms.gle/UvmqMsG7iwQnbqdZ7

# key sets you expect to order ($125 to $150 per key set):
1. pictured key sets but with black/white key color scheme (doubleshot MX, non-spherical)

2. MX spherical double shot

3. buckling spring spherical double shot

I received two sample double shot Cherry MX type key sets from a factory I came across that just started working on double shot injection molding technology (they are not my usual sourcing web site from what I can see - they don't even have a company web site!).

Was wondering if anyone wanted to provide feedback as I'm not too knowledgeable on double shot technology outside of my IBM beam spring keyboards.

Compared to my beam spring keycaps, the samples are matte, not spherical, and seem to have some scratches and scuffs on some of the keys on both my sample key sets (especially the number row of keys).

This is not a priority but I'm thinking about getting the spherical double shot key molds made next year (well after the current orders are all mailed out), or maybe just ordering some of these key sets as a group buy for the MX folks as a first step to working with the factory (they're about $125 to $150 each set of 103 keys with a minimum order of several hundred sets).

They don't seem as nice as the Signature Plastics DSA Black & White Keyset (Two Shot) but those are only available for MX (I asked and they won't do any buckling spring molds). From the new factory in China, I might order a custom batch of black text on white keys (alphas) and white text on black keys (modifiers) like the beam spring keyboards, either from their current tooling or if I have new tooling made (spherical).

There would have to be 500 - 1000 sets ordered so it may be more of a long shot (pardon the pun), and they would definitely cost at least $125 to $150 based on current estimates, maybe more.

Full res files: https://imgur.com/a/ccCEhCY

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[willdenham]

I'm in for the black and white combo for IBM. Looks great from the samples, always nice to see more players getting in the game as long as they're quality.

[Bass]

I am definitely interested but have a few questions. Mainly:

1) Have you already decided on the colorway? My personal favorite for spherical sets is something like space cadet (eg, gray alphas and blue modifiers and vice versa).
2) What layouts are you planning to support? I would assume by default you would support a standard full size Model M, but it would certainly be great to include some extras that would be enough to cover some of the non-standard layouts for Model F users (in particular the 122 key terminal layout).

[Ellipse]

1. I'd like to go with the IBM beamspring style: black text on white keys (alphas) and white text on black keys (modifiers)

The supplier won't allow different color options unless the MOQ was met for each color scheme (this is disappointing!)

2. was planning on 104 but might want to add some keys. There would need to be some consensus on the extra keys and the price would be proportionately higher with additional keys.

[FXT]

Mark me down as interested.

[enrique.aliaga]

Very interested!

[zrrion]

...but those are only available for MX (I asked and they won't do any buckling spring molds)...

Just to clarify since it isn't spelled out, are you looking into doing a set of caps inspired by IBM, or a set of caps for buckling spring boards? A set of spherical caps for buckling spring would be fantastic and if that is what you are proposing then I would be up for something like this for sure

[Twst]

Very enthusiastic about buckling spring caps. Definitely in!

[darkcruix]

It'll be interesting to know, if these are:
MX) MX mount keycaps with IBM style (I doubt Ellipse would be interested in these)
B) Beam Spring keycaps
FM) Beam Spring mount keycaps
I wouldn't be interested in MX) but definitely on B) and FM)

The White / Black legend style is beautiful and I would be in depending on the mold for a bunch of sets ...

[Scarpia]

I’m interested provided:

1. The keyset would cover a new F77

2. The colorway is sexy AF (like the aforementioned beamspring black&white, or Space Cadet)

3. The pricing is <$150 (honestly that’s just about my pain point)

4. If the keycaps are sculpted differently in the different rows, I would want the nav cluster (ins, del, pgup..) to fit my F77 layout)

[zrrion]

If it is buckling spring then the different rows thing is sorta handled by the curved plate. Adding a profile on top of that would mean it looses a lot of flexibility in terms of layout for something that really isn't necessary IMO

[Tritian]

I am 100% interested in quality spherical BS caps in great colorways. I love the colorway in the photos, and those classics mentioned by others.

[darkcruix]

If it is buckling spring then the different rows thing is sorta handled by the curved plate. Adding a profile on top of that would mean it looses a lot of flexibility in terms of layout for something that really isn't necessary IMO

Totally agree - sculptured keys are for MX and BeamSprings, where there is a flat plate. The beauty of Buckling Spring is the possibility to interchange any key of any row while still keeping a curved layout.

[sharktastica]

Like others have said, if these are to be B/S keycaps, given the curved plates B/S keyboards (excluding M1, M2, and M15, of course) have, a sculpted form would be redundant and would not play to the advantages that curved plates with uni-profile keycaps allow.

As such, I would only be interested if they are not sculpted differently each row.

[OxC0FFEE]

Like others have said, if these are to be B/S keycaps, given the curved plates B/S keyboards (excluding M1, M2, and M15, of course) have, a sculpted form would be redundant and would not play to the advantages that curved plates with uni-profile keycaps allow.

As such, I would only be interested if they are not sculpted differently each row.

Agreed with this. @ellipse can you comment on the row-to-row profile? Are they the same to work well on a curved plate?

[Ellipse]

Not sure yet. I am leaning towards just ordering the MX type keys for now - probably key sets from their currently made molds (doubleshot but not spherical) first.

I am wondering about the interest in their current key sets with black/white key color scheme (MX double shot, non-spherical), MX Spherical double shot, and buckling spring spherical double shot.

I have created a Google form here to collect replies: https://forms.gle/UvmqMsG7iwQnbqdZ7

[DrivenKeys]

I'll use the form as well, but just wanted to join the conversation here. BS old school spherical white on black. With those, I'd add a solenoid to my F for that typewriter feel.

[Tonyv_73]

just wanted to join the conversation, not sure if anything will come of this but interested!

[cods]

Totally in for buckling spring x2

[Muirium]

If it is buckling spring then the different rows thing is sorta handled by the curved plate. Adding a profile on top of that would mean it looses a lot of flexibility in terms of layout for something that really isn't necessary IMO

Totally agree - sculptured keys are for MX and BeamSprings, where there is a flat plate. The beauty of Buckling Spring is the possibility to interchange any key of any row while still keeping a curved layout.

Aye! These caps absolutely need **tested** on IBM keyboards, too. Buckling spring caps clip on over the springs. They're fundamentally different geometry to the usual slab of doubleshot plastic.

And remember ISO! This is DT, and there's a lot of ISO IBMs here. I'm straight ANSI myself but I feel for those guys.

[cods]

Happy to test
Agree, I’m an ANSI user, but I know the guys in the UK suffer when ISO is left out.

[Muirium]

Of course, mention ISO and next step you're trying to meet German / French / Italian / Spanish needs. Uh-oh!

Good thing all those rows are entirely interchangeable. True international coverage is much easier on buckling spring than those maddeningly complex MX GBs. QWERTZ and AZERTY reuse most of ANSIs alphas.

[cods]

All the more reason to go for this lovely set of colours for the buckling spring people... or beamspring, a broad church that’s getting broader!

[Muirium]

This lovely set of which colours: the Dolch grey in the pics above or the white on black Ellipse says in his post?

I'm honestly not sure which would look better on a Model M anyway.

@Ellipse: Could you try posing these caps on a Model M? I know they're the wrong mount, it's more a colour matching thing.

[depletedvespene]

Of course, mention ISO and next step you're trying to meet German / French / Italian / Spanish needs. Uh-oh!

Plus Portuguese, Swiss (both), Belgian, Czech, Hungarian, Polish, Slovenian/Croatian/Serbian (Latin), Greek, Russian (any and all of those), Turkish (both), Dutch, Danish, Norwegian, Swedish and Finnish, Thai, etcetera...

Good thing all those rows are entirely interchangeable. True international coverage is much easier on buckling spring than those maddeningly complex MX GBs. QWERTZ and AZERTY reuse most of ANSIs alphas.

A couple years ago, I helped a few keycap set designers build possible international kits for Cherry MX-based GBs. It'd be funny to pull a similar stunt for IBM keycaps (or any other uniprofile cap set).

[depletedvespene]

Also, don't forget internationalized modifier keys!

[Ellipse]

Unfortunately there is not enough interest for any of these key sets so I'll be holding off for now on anything requiring a new mold. Less than 50 sets' worth of interest for all three options compared to the 500-1000 minimum order quantity.

[Muirium]

Hobbyist plastics: the next frontier.

We really need to take charge and do this stuff ourselves.

[XMIT]

You'd be surprised how inexpensive small injection molding machines are.

Molds, on the other hand...

[Muirium]

Indeed. And we would bloody well need plenty of them. The ideas I have for fonts!

Speaking of which: what about amateur dyesub? I’ve got some wonderful caps from DecentKeyboards but the whole sets need some community input, so to speak.