(Model MF) Remodeling the Model M (aka.. the Mara)

POTV · 04 Nov 2016, 18:42

Thanks lot_lizard, impressed as always

Techno Trousers · 04 Nov 2016, 19:11

lot_lizard wrote:There will be wire stabilizer clips through the board for I believe all variations we dreamed up

Fantastic news!!

giokkk · 04 Nov 2016, 19:25

Great news indeed!!

Lot, there will be a chance to have a new set of F springs?
From what I remember in one of your previous post you were in contact with a factory that is able to built them.

New springs makes the difference for sure!

Techno Trousers · 04 Nov 2016, 20:35

Oh yeah, I almost forgot about some new stainless springs.

lot_lizard · 04 Nov 2016, 20:48

giokkk wrote: there will be a chance to have a new set of F springs?
From what I remember in one of your previous post you were in contact with a factory that is able to built them.

New springs makes the difference for sure!

Totally forgot about this as well (was the first quote of them all way back... the irony). Thanks for reminding. I will add it in. As a heads-up... it would be the one part that would have a MOQ that could very easily be decoupled from all of this, so if there wasn't enough interest... we would just refund.

fohat · 04 Nov 2016, 20:50

lot_lizard wrote:
As a heads-up... it would be the one part that would have a MOQ that could very easily be decoupled from all of this,

Didn't Ellipse go through that with his new springs/pivot plates?

Muirium · 04 Nov 2016, 21:02

So, what have I missed now?

(Not that I'm complaining. My absence is all my own doing. Rather, this project is The Big One and I'd like a quick roundup of where you've reached, or some choice links, without setting aside a day to read the whole thread. Can't afford that right now, but I'm still very interested in the project itself. As is my SSK…)

Techno Trousers · 04 Nov 2016, 21:29

Ordering is in beta test mode right now, and when lizard is satisfied that everything's in place, he'll open a marketplace thread. Probably only a matter of days now. You can go back a few pages if you want to see version 1 of the ordering spreadsheet, and a sketch of how it will work.

lot_lizard · 04 Nov 2016, 21:33

Muirium wrote: So, what have I missed now?

Welcome back friend... We now have some "final" pricing, +/- a few dollars. Should kick off the group buy some time next week.

resources/file/34130

The last few pages have just been working out some semantics like shipping, and everyone making sure we aren't missing anything as part of the order. I don't know if you caught our laser engraving experiments, but spawn a new thread for it in the marketplace (other-f61/laser-engraving-key-caps-t14881.html). WCass sent me his engraving template and I received his dyed caps today. Anxious to see that result (hopefully by the end of the weekend).

EDIT: Whenever you are up to it, would love your help there with some font thoughts. We scanned a set of 3276 caps, and have a long term goal of producing that font as well (takes time)

Muirium · 04 Nov 2016, 21:48

Font choices, you say?

lot_lizard · 04 Nov 2016, 22:25

Muirium wrote: Font choices, you say?

Indeed... We are about to actually enter an interesting space there I think. I fixed the bunk URL before if you want to retry.

Have actually figured out a way to burn in color with it (dark on light... more traditional) that is much more promising than any experiment result I have posted here, but don't want to commit to it yet. I'll be sure to take some good pictures of WCass's caps to give you an idea of the light font on dark caps.

EDIT: It really has nothing to do directly with Phase 1 of this project, so we have broken it out into a dedicated service thread. It could have significant Phase 2 implications though (maybe no longer have interest in flat boards for custom Cherry caps?!?... no idea just yet)

lot_lizard · 06 Nov 2016, 18:11

Added the results of etching WCass's caps back in the Marketplace thread, but figured it would be interesting to many here that are just following this, and anyone reading this later that doesn't want to have to hop around. Forgive the double post if you've already seen.

Techno Trousers · 06 Nov 2016, 18:21

So cool! Now that I see the whole board together, I notice that some of the letters seem right shifted on the key. Like O especially. Is that an artifact of the picture or is it really like that? If it is over to the right, is that because of the original graphic, or was the key off in the jig a little bit?

I have to order up some blanks and dye them soon!

lot_lizard · 06 Nov 2016, 18:42

Techno Trousers wrote: Now that I see the whole board together, I notice that some of the letters seem right shifted on the key. Like O especially. Is that an artifact of the picture or is it really like that? If it is over to the right, is that because of the original graphic, or was the key off in the jig a little bit?

It's my fault. Some things are shifted to the right more than it should have been. I was compensating for a problem that didn't exist, and proved to be a bad move. Until we actually tried a pass all the way through, I didn't have the confidence in it that I should have. Having said that, I would dye a few extras in case I try to get too cute with anything you send me (they are experiments after all).

E TwentyNine · 06 Nov 2016, 19:21

Was it meant to be the selectric legend font? Because it is really really close...

lot_lizard · 06 Nov 2016, 19:45

E TwentyNine wrote: Was it meant to be the selectric legend font? Because it is really really close...

It is what WCass found, Cameron Sans Extra Bold. I have stalled a little on my Selectric font making. Have maybe 15? letters thus far. Should break it back out. The Cameron Sans (at least Extra Bold) is certainly bolder, but it was a very nice choice for our exercise. No reason you couldn't pick anything though.

Ir0n · 06 Nov 2016, 22:27

Those look really nice!
I wish we could get rounded caps though..the dream... at least for me lol

Techno Trousers · 07 Nov 2016, 01:32

Ir0n wrote:Those look really nice!
I wish we could get rounded caps though..the dream... at least for me lol

Beamspring style sphericals? That would be awesome for sure. It's a real shame no one but Unicomp makes BS caps any more.

lot_lizard · 08 Nov 2016, 03:48

Techno Trousers wrote: Beamspring style sphericals? That would be awesome for sure. It's a real shame no one but Unicomp makes BS caps any more.

They are very doable actually. I'm hoping the Matt3o makes his sphericals available to us. We actually wouldn't want the full range of profiles because we are on a curved plane (ie... row 3 only). People get caught up in mold pricing, but there is a science behind mold price and demand... And that science doesn't involve rockets. If you have 100+ orders * 100 keys, and a demand at 50 bucks a set (+/- 10 dollars)... It is a dunk.

Techno Trousers · 08 Nov 2016, 03:52

Lizard, you'll need to put a bib in with my model MF kits, because you make me drool so much!

Ir0n · 08 Nov 2016, 14:07

Don't tease me! That would probably be an end game daily driver for me.

lot_lizard · 08 Nov 2016, 23:14

Back to the bit about the ISO request on the order... can someone be specific about everything that would be impacted by that? I am having trouble coming up with everything/anything (assuming you have the cap) that would be influenced. Apologize, but I don't have an ISO board that hasn't been converted to ANSI, other than the F122 spares, and I am not around one of them at the moment. I understand the need if we are talking about having the unit completely assembled when it arrives to you, but struggling why it matters on kit/parts level.

Techno Trousers · 09 Nov 2016, 01:17

I know that ISO layout uses a split left shift, so flippers in both barrels there would mean an extra switch. IIRC, the ISO enter would use one switch, and the extra 1u key would use a second, so the same number of switches as an ANSI enter and long |\ combo. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

fohat · 09 Nov 2016, 01:49

Aren't we looking at the standard M/F layout of barrels with a few extras in the bottom row?

wcass · 09 Nov 2016, 02:07

Yes, correct. ISO left shift is split, so one fewer horizontal stabilizer insert and one extra spring-pivot. For ISO Enter, substitute a vertical stabilizer insert for a horizontal stabilizer insert.

For those not in the know, horizontal stabilizer inserts (shift, backspace, ANSI enter, numpad 0) have the hole centered in the barrel; vertical inserts (ISO enter, numpad enter, numpad +) have the hole "north" of center.

lot_lizard · 09 Nov 2016, 02:27

Thanks for validating I'm not crazy

. I think I would rather keep this form as simple as possible on the ISO piece then (or whatever configuration), and just make a note to tell me if you want some specific layout in the comments. I will be looking at all of these anyway to validate before invoicing, and will help you account for anything that is not ANSI when needed. The last thing I want to do is over-complicate the form for layout preferences... Just base choices.

POTV · 09 Nov 2016, 12:43

Old ISO enter without insert
New ISO enter with white insert

fohat · 09 Nov 2016, 13:52

POTV wrote:
Old ISO enter without insert
New ISO enter with white insert

I have never seen an ISO insert before.

That insert would be upside-down for the 2u tall numpad keys - the thicker end goes up.

E TwentyNine · 09 Nov 2016, 14:23

lot_lizard wrote: Thanks for validating I'm not crazy .

Whoa, whoa....let's not go too far here.

wcass · 09 Nov 2016, 15:44

fohat wrote:
POTV wrote:
Old ISO enter without insert
New ISO enter with white insert

I have never seen an ISO insert before.

That insert would be upside-down for the 2u tall numpad keys - the thicker end goes up.

Correct; I got it wrong on earlier post. I mis-remembered where the buckling spring goes on those double-high numpad caps. "Thick" side of insert is toward the working plunger. The working plunger is "south" on ISO Enter, but "north" on numpad enter and numpad plus.