(Model MF) Remodeling the Model M (aka.. the Mara)

[Wingklip]

Excuse my stupidity, but what is this flat plate discussion that's been going on all about?

[Rimrul]

That's part of the Plans for "Phase 2".

If you decide to read through the thread from scratch (good luck), there will be a mention of Phase 1 and 2:

• Phase 1 is the drop-in replacement for the Model M inner assembly that turns a Model M into a functional F. The only parts remaining from the original M are the outer shell (case), and the keycaps.
• Phase 2 is to be determined, but we would be making a new and unique board from scratch using a new buckling spring switch (hopefully improved) that would support modern layouts, keycaps, case designs, etc.

These two phases are intermixed in this thread because Phase 2 is really an extension of Phase 1. Phase 2 (new board) is really my end goal, but Phase 1 is a baby-step (though a giant baby) towards proving we are capable of doing this. We are using this thread as a "think tank" because the ideas are so closely related.

Lot lizard is planning to do a second version of this after "Phase 1" that'll deviate a bit more from the classic IBM choices (Curved Plate, Large Bezel, ...) than this current phase.

[Wingklip]

I think it's still possible to curve the plate at the same time as keeping the profiling on the caps, the curve after all is really quite passive and not at all aggressive like some cherry boards and even modern day ones. I'm putting my vote for a still curved mark 2 because the curved profile justification is just too good. I wonder if the PCB's can be made thinner?

[wcass]

It is not about one or the other, it is about options. Our plan is to design "keyboards" (not "a keyboard").

But some features - such as "controller on pad card" and "bezel-less layout" will be very difficult or impossible with a curved back-plate. It is possible to make a buckling spring HHKB (about 3 mm bezel and only place to put controller is under space bar) but I think it is going to have to be flat.

[depletedvespene]

It is not about one or the other, it is about options. Our plan is to design "keyboards" (not "a keyboard").

But some features - such as "controller on pad card" and "bezel-less layout" will be very difficult or impossible with a curved back-plate. It is possible to make a buckling spring HHKB (about 3 mm bezel and only place to put controller is under space bar) but I think it is going to have to be flat.

But... but... my curves? If we're to choose between "no bezel" and "no curve", I'd rather have the former. Pretty please?

(and whose ass do I have to kiss to make a Model M-like 75% ?)

[Techno Trousers]

What are you guys most looking forward to doing when you get your Mara? I want to assemble my own, so I imagine unboxing them from the custom shipping/storage boxes, and laying out all the individual parts.

Then putting together the first SSK: turning the satisfying torx screws, applying the stickers, loading on the special set of key caps I've been saving for it (a combination of XT alphas and SSK mods), and giving it that first test run.

I can't wait to bring that bad boy into work and watching everyone wonder where the racket is coming from. Then inviting them to try it for themselves.

[adamcobabe]

What are you guys most looking forward to doing when you get your Mara? I want to assemble my own, so I imagine unboxing them from the custom shipping/storage boxes, and laying out all the individual parts.

Then putting together the first SSK: turning the satisfying torx screws, applying the stickers, loading on the special set of key caps I've been saving for it (a combination of XT alphas and SSK mods), and giving it that first test run.

I can't wait to bring that bad boy into work and watching everyone wonder where the racket is coming from. Then inviting them to try it for themselves.

Both hands above the desk, Techno Trousers.

So I snagged a set of flippers and springs from Ellipse's project on eBay. Probably rejects, but I got them for $0.50, so... If I can find a set of equally cheap barrels, I'll be set. Unlikely but, half way there.

[Techno Trousers]

Both hands above the desk, Techno Trousers.

Ha ha! I deserve that, but aren't we all here because we like touching stuff?

So I snagged a set of flippers and springs from Ellipse's project on eBay. Probably rejects, but I got them for $0.50, so... If I can find a set of equally cheap barrels, I'll be set. Unlikely but, half way there.

I'm planning to again order two full-sized and two SSK. I believe I'm going to have some switches left over when everything is accounted for. I need to count everything up. I'd be willing to sell extras for a reasonable price.

[adamcobabe]

We're fast approaching September, which was the month we were planning to do this GB right?

[micrex22]

We're fast approaching September, which was the month we were planing to do this GB right?

It's hard to say, looks like the mfdrop.com site expired (lotlizard may still have a lot of things to sort out):

I really shouldn’t announce this yet, but we will be initiating the re-commencement of our buy a little more properly. We have a proper site to place orders going forward. The code is from the ground up, and will include some charts (our friends at JFreeCharts), etc... but the idea is to create a site where anyone can facilitate a proper group buy without any commission from us (each drop has a unique owner and PayPal collector). It’s 70% (no products or drops yet) there if anyone wanted to take a peek and provide feedback. The subscription bit is fully functional if you wanted to sign up. The concept is to be a DT partner (allowing you to apply your handle in the cart on checkout), and provide discounts based on validated membership levels if applicable. In our case, it will be extremely similar pricing to the original buy if you participated (I have the list )

https://mfdrop.com

[Redmaus]

Somehow I'm only seeing this now, I'm definitely in for one! Would love to make use of the many extra XT barrels and flippers I have now.

[Rimrul]

Unfortunately though, the fabricator of our steel plates is going to be the Hoover Dam on our production bandwidth. They have grown quite a bit since our last experiments (good for our friends), but means they have some large contracts now with zero opportunities to recalibrate tooling/machinery for our little run. I did get a full commitment from them that they would produce as many as we wanted the week of 9/9.

[...]

Last time we had some momentum and everyone was closely following, so we only needed a small window of time to join the GB (like 3-4 weeks?!?). Now since we know a date for production to wrap up, we can make this a little less of scramble. I was thinking maybe 7/4 we start taking orders, and let it run for 6-8 weeks this time? Thoughts are very welcome. Again, apologize for the delay. Now that my life and our timing has some clarity, I will be on here much more frequently.

We should be getting close to the end of the buying phase by that plan. Somehow I think there'll be some more delay, until our lizard resurfaces.

[Muirium]

Yup. Give him time.

[Fkazim]

I would definitely be interested in getting one of these too

[anmq91]

+1, Really hoping this works out. I'm in to get one for my Model M! 8)

[Fkazim]

Are these ready yet? I am itching to get my hands on one for my SSK

[Muirium]

Read the thread, all the way through, impatient!

I really hope we do get these, too. But don’t count on it. Lot Lizard’s had a rough time.

[Fkazim]

Sorry I did not mean to sound inpatient. I just am so looking forward to these PCB's. I have been keeping tabs on this thread now for a while.

Thanks for the reply anyways.

[Muirium]

Hey, no worries. I just don’t want people building hype when we can’t be sure this is still in progress. Life can really get in the way sometimes! Believe me.

[XMIT]

:crickets:

I just want to buy some of my Model F parts back for experiments...

[fohat]

QFT

That project seemed to vacuum up the worldwide supply of Model F parts for the better part of a year, besides seemingly pulling a lot of otherwise hidden supply out of the woodwork.

[zzxx53]

Seeing that lot_lizard isn't coming back anytime soon, anyone interested in reverse engineer the plate CAD files?
lot_lizard did release some dxf files at viewtopic.php?p=319656#p319656 , but seems like it only contains 2D data. If one just add the right curvature to it (300mm radial curve), he can then create a model that could be sent to Shapeways for validation.

[wcass]

The dfx file is good to send for plasma/water jet cut from metal. Then put the metal through a slip roll to put the curve in.
Slip rollers are common in HVAC shops.

[zzxx53]

Thanks for the pointer, wcass.
Was thinking about making a 3d printed version first before going for metal fabrication.

[DrYak]

I hope this project will resurect.

[kmnov2017]

With Unicomp's SSKs shipping any day, if you ask me it's just the flippers that is stopping this project. One can use all of Unicomp's components to build an MF board. PCBs are very cheap, the plastic barrel plate from Unicomp is good enough. The springs on the model M are F are interchangeable (the difference won't be noticeable to most users). It's just those silly flippers which are now becoming hard to get. And to add to this, the new one part unicomp keycaps are actually quite good!

Edit: maybe someone should ask Unicomp for just their new SSK case, backplate and plastic barrel plate. The PCBs can be ordered off JLCPCB for just a few bucks. For the controller use the through hole universal controller, which a 12 year old can make by their own.

[Hypersphere]

If the F-SSK project is still going forward, my preference would be for a curved backplate.

[wcass]

With Unicomp's SSKs shipping any day, if you ask me it's just the flippers that is stopping this project. One can use all of Unicomp's components to build an MF board. PCBs are very cheap, the plastic barrel plate from Unicomp is good enough. The springs on the model M are F are interchangeable (the difference won't be noticeable to most users). It's just those silly flippers which are now becoming hard to get. And to add to this, the new one part unicomp keycaps are actually quite good!

Edit: maybe someone should ask Unicomp for just their new SSK case, backplate and plastic barrel plate. The PCBs can be ordered off JLCPCB for just a few bucks. For the controller use the through hole universal controller, which a 12 year old can make by their own.

I have already asked Unicomp for exactly this. Unfortunately, ...

You cannot purchase an unassembled Mini M at this time. Please check back with us in a couple of months.

The USB connector looks like it is this ... https://cdn.amphenol-icc.com/media/wysi ... le-usb.pdf
https://www.digikey.com/products/en?keywords=70144806

[kmnov2017]

I wrote to them too, got a similar reply. But I believe they will have these at some point. For all their other models the frame (barrel plate) and case is available for 20 USD each. We have to convince them to sell the curved back plate as well. JLCPCB will take care of the thin PCBs. What about the flippers? Does anyone have the flipper design files that lot_lizard made ? Custom made to order 3D printing has become quite reasonable. Additionally , there are companies that make silicon molds and do resonably priced injection molding. I'd like to run this through a few companies to get quotes for say a 1000 pieces of flippers...

[wcass]

Injection molding is the way to go. The flipper plastic needs an additive (carbon) to make it capacitive.

I'm just going to order a complete keyboard and then disassemble. I will offer the designs up to Unicomp if they want them - if not, i will publish them as open. It would be best if folks could order an "F upgrade" directly from the manufacturer.