Seeking Soarer - evidence thread

[depletedvespene]

…Collectively characterising a forum as a naughty child for not licensing a decade old blob of keyboard converter code in the way you'd like it to be licensed is just wackybrained. If you don't like it, do better, but do it by actually doing some work, not whatever this shit show is.

You may want to re-read the thread and look up why esr came here.

Also, describing the behaviour of several "participants" in this thread as "naughty child" is rather charitable. Several of them should have already been banned for life.

[shallot]

No software that people use daily is something that you wrote.

Again, I hope somebody else here knows enough to clue this guy in. I'll be over here, laughing my ass off.

It's pardonable ignorance, I suppose. I do tend to work on fairly deep infrastructure.

What on earth did you just snark at me, you lazy millennial? I'll have you know I am a top member of my homeowner's association, and I've received numerous pre-screened offers for ultra-premium credit cards, and I have over 300 cleared transactions. I was brought up in a culture of civility and I'm the most respected mediator of lunch-related conflicts in the entire HR department. You are nothing to me but just another entitled youth. I will tell you how my attitude and hard work led to my success with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, you listen and you listen good. You think you can get away with purchasing avocado toast and still afford a down payment? Think again, child. As we speak I am logged into my 401k and my returns are outpacing your base wage so you better prepare for the right to work, freeloader. The legislation that wipes out the pathetic thing you call organized labor. You're out in the cold, kid. I can get any job, anytime, and I can attach over seven hundred references to my resume, and that's just with my LinkedIn network. Not only do I have twenty years of experience, but I have access to all the equipment in my father in-law's tool shed and I will use it to its full extent to reduce the height of your miserable oleander to the 3.5 feet above grade mandated by local ordinance, you little disappointment. If only you could have known what civil discourse your whiny disrespect was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your cultural marxism. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you sorry barista. I will reply to every one of your comments with supreme confidence and the connection to whatever you were angry about will be tenuous at best. You're hopelessly unemployable, kiddo.

[Redmaus]

Again, I hope somebody else here knows enough to clue this guy in. I'll be over here, laughing my ass off.

That's exactly it, no one else does you brainlet. Only you and your buttbuddy care about whatever dogshit library you wrote.

It's pardonable ignorance, I suppose. I do tend to work on fairly deep infrastructure.

Why would you expect me to know? Why would you expect any person on this planet to know? Whatever code you wrote in reality is insignificant. You can keep telling yourself you are the programmer that keeps the internet running, or you could quit acting like a manchild and realize that people who don't know you don't care and have no reason to.

[mode1ace]

Just imagine being that egotistical, jfc.

[shallot]

Lofi hip hop beats to study and violate the OSI Code of Conduct to

[shallot]

Did you ever hear the Tragedy of Darth ESR the Unwise? It's a Sith legend. Darth ESR was a Dark Lord of the Sith so powerful and so wise, he could use the Force to influence the midi-chlorians to create... well not much really, can't seem to find anything he did no matter how hard we try. He had such a knowledge of the Dark Side, he could even keep the ones he cared about...from caring. He became so powerful, the only thing he was afraid of was losing his power...which, eventually of course, he did, when he violated the OSI code of conduct. Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew. Then his apprentice killed him in his sleep in a Tron suit. Ironic. He could save others from caring...but not himself.

[Weezer]

God this thread has turned into such steaming garbage. Does this all matter that much?

[Redmaus]

God this thread has turned into such steaming garbage. Does this all matter that much?

Good point! Have fun the rest of you, I'm gonna leave this thread now and return to posting when the topic goes back to keyboards

[lis0r]

And just how much code have you contributed to the world of open source, pray tell?

Plenty, but I'm not going to identify myself to the likes of you.

No one person knows everything. (Except you, apparently.) As I mentioned before, I made my living for several years doing embedded firmware development, and I would have to ask how to load firmware into a Soarer's converter. (Yeah, it's probably Googleable, but that might or might not reveal the pitfalls and traps that an experienced person on that specific hardware learned the hard way to avoid.)

You say that like that's special. As someone involved in embedded, you should be incredibly intimate with having to adapt. Flashing a goddamned single board microcontroller is absolutely basic and fundamental in embedded - I'd be ashamed to have to ask for help doing it.

[Slom]

…
You are a complete newbie here, and have no clue of the social structure of this place. Otherwise you would have known that trying to control what people are allowed to say in this topic was asking for disaster.

Back in my day, whenever a noob on DT made a gaffe, people would explain to him what the error was and how to correct it, whether in public or private.

Like telling him that he make unfounded and unjustified assumptions about people that he doesn't know? I thought I just did that.
Like pointing out that this is hobby for most people. I thought I did.

[...] where they have no actual interest in the topic at hand.

Erik started to assume things about the forum members. I am a forum member. I am also a professional software developer. So I feel I have an Interest in correcting his misconception.

[depletedvespene]

God this thread has turned into such steaming garbage. Does this all matter that much?

That's what pisses me off the most — most of those retards don't actually care about the subject matter (and the worst one actually has a vested interest in seeing Soarer's Converters be abandoned).

[esr]

If hacker culture is tinkering with stuff, finding and sharing workarounds and clever solutions to technical problems, and having fun while doing this, then I don't see how this place is not part of hacker culture.

Serious answer: This crew has some of the aspirations of hacker culture. Some of the mindset. You put your finger on that.

What a lot of you are lacking is the knowledge, the praxis, developed over the last 40 years by the hacker subculture that gave you Linux and the modern Internet. And the reason that matters is because those customs are functional. They keep you out of trouble of the kind Soarer's carelessnes about licenses and source distribution has dropped you into.

So how many of us do you know? You know zilch about most of us, yet you feel entitled to tell us off. Soarer might have lacked knowledge, for most of the rest of us you simple don't know.

Look, I'm sorry that evaluation offends you. Really I am. I'm not trying to beat up on anybody.

But here's what I see from the outside: Soarer pulled inexcusably careless, risky shit and nobody called him on it. Nobody said "Hey, we could be in legal trouble using those blobs without a license". Nobody said "I'm not cool with using firmware there's no published source for." At least neither of those things happened in any message traffic I've seen, and people here talk like they never happened at all.

Maybe there are people here who know better, and maybe you're one of them. I can easily believe that.

But nobody called him on it. Your culture didn't have that norm. And that lack is a bug.

[mode1ace]

Look, I'm sorry that evaluation offends you. Really I am. I'm not trying to beat up on anybody.

But here's what I see from the outside: Soarer pulled inexcusably careless, risky shit and nobody called him on it. Nobody said "Hey, we could be in legal trouble using those blobs without a license". Nobody said "I'm not cool with using firmware there's no published source for." At least neither of those things happened in any message traffic I've seen, and people here talk like they never happened at all.

Maybe there are people here who know better, and maybe you're one of them. I can easily believe that.

But nobody called him on it. Your culture didn't have that norm. And that lack is a bug.

Your attitude is a bug. This is a hobby, people do it for fun, not to get on each others case for stuff like this. I wasn't around at the time but I'm guessing people probably did try and get him to open source it. In the end it doesn't really matter, there are viable alternatives which can easily be improved to be even better.

[shallot]

God this thread has turned into such steaming garbage. Does this all matter that much?

That's what pisses me off the most — most of those retards don't actually care about the subject matter (and the worst one actually has a vested interest in seeing Soarer's Converters be abandoned).

lmao, i've said multiple times in this thread, if you want soarer's converters, make soarer's converters. i'm just not gonna support you doxxing a guy to do it. my stuff is based on TMK and QMK which is all GPL, so the code will be released. not sure how i have some kind of 'vested interest' in seeing it be abandoned seeing as i plan to make basically no money from this. the only thing i have a 'vested interest' in is the death of ripoff merchants selling overpriced hardware.

[shallot]

just because you think i'm a retard (which you're very welcome to), doesn't give you an excuse to put motivations in my mouth.

[depletedvespene]

just because you think i'm a retard (which you're very welcome to), doesn't give you an excuse to put motivations in my mouth.

I am not. You've already declared as much, earlier in the thread. Also, kudos to you for at least acknowledging that you are the worst participant in the thread.

[shallot]

just because you think i'm a retard (which you're very welcome to), doesn't give you an excuse to put motivations in my mouth.

I am not. You've already declared as much, earlier in the thread. Also, kudos to you for at least acknowledging that you are the worst participant in the thread.

why don't you quote me on that. if it's because i said there's a better way to do it? it's because there is.

[shallot]

hey and guess what? you can flash your vaunted firmware on my hardware, so i don't see how that's "conspiring to wipe out soarer's" or whatever.

[shallot]

basically, like all the boomers on this forum, you open your mouth and a bunch of uninformed word salad and opinion presented as fact flies out

[depletedvespene]

basically, like all the boomers on this forum, you open your mouth and a bunch of uninformed word salad and opinion presented as fact flies out

A criciticism to your work managed to get to you, and now you are demanding arguments to be made in support of your position. So...

"Someone I don't like makes a comment I don't like." => "I have the right to be an obnoxious pest."
"Someone made a comment I don't like about MY stuff." => "I demand proper proof and evidence (notwithstanding what is already on the record)."

Come back after you've learned how to behave.

[headphone_jack]

I suggest people in support of ESR read up on why people dislike him so intensely. I read his rational wiki article, and it was frankly disturbing.

[shallot]

yeah the reason i'm so mad at you and muirium is that you're sucking the cock of a hateful prick who doesn't deserve to be anywhere near this hobby in some cockarsed plot to resurrect a dead bit of code.

this dude hates people like me and my friends, while doing that disgusting "oh but i don't really hate them, i just say awful things all the time" and you don't give a shit about his rampant toxicity because it doesn't impact you at all, so fuck you both. fuck this community if we tolerate people with *actual, on record, awfulness* but oh no, shitposting at bad person bad!!!

[Muirium]

Try wording it without the ad hominem and make your case again.

What I see is you and a few friends shitposting a storm on this otherwise earnest thread. Make arguments. With words. Not just emotions.

[jmaynard]

You say that like that's special. As someone involved in embedded, you should be incredibly intimate with having to adapt. Flashing a goddamned single board microcontroller is absolutely basic and fundamental in embedded - I'd be ashamed to have to ask for help doing it.

True. But if I can avoid falling into the same traps others have and thereby wasting time, when all it takes is a question someone can answer, damned straight I will. See "reinventing wheels". After all, I would not expect you, or anyone who had not done so before, to know how to flash the controllers I worked on straight out of the box, either.

I suggest people in support of ESR read up on why people dislike him so intensely. I read his rational wiki article, and it was frankly disturbing.

Rational Wiki is hardly an unbiased source, being terminally woke...

What I see is you and a few friends shitposting a storm on this thread. Make arguments. With words. Not just emotions.

Objection, your honor. Assumes facts not in evidence: that she can actually make arguments with words, not just emoutions.

[esr]

But nobody called him on it. Your culture didn't have that norm. And that lack is a bug.

Your attitude is a bug. This is a hobby, people do it for fun, not to get on each others case for stuff like this.

That's...a very strange reaction. Hard for me to process. I sense that I'm running into another culture difference.

I do most of what I do for fun, too. So do my peers. If I'd gotten paid the economic value of a hundredth of the code I'd written I'd be stinking rich.

But we "get on each others case" about stuff like proper release practices because we know it's important. Just because you're not being paid, does that mean you don't take pride in your work and want to do the right thing?

[esr]

Flashing a goddamned single board microcontroller is absolutely basic and fundamental in embedded - I'd be ashamed to have to ask for help doing it.

I'm not even a bit ashamed to ask for help. Maybe I would be if I were the monstrous egotist some people are imagining, but the truth is I've never done any embedded programming.

Want an Internet service daemon? A DSL? Anything resembling a compiler or markup processor? Need a huge grotty old codebase cleaned up and refactored? Then I'm your guy. But embedded, no. Zero experience.

Ain't too proud to learn, though.

[depletedvespene]

…
Objection, your honor. Assumes facts not in evidence: that she can actually make arguments with words, not just emoutions.

I'm gonna go to Hell for this, but I gotta ask: is an "emoution" a British emotion?

[esr]

…
Objection, your honor. Assumes facts not in evidence: that she can actually make arguments with words, not just emoutions.

I'm gonna go to Hell for this, but I gotta ask: is an "emoution" a British emotion?

*snrk* No. Jay is from Texas.

[E TwentyNine]

But here's what I see from the outside: Soarer pulled inexcusably careless, risky shit and nobody called him on it. Nobody said "Hey, we could be in legal trouble using those blobs without a license". Nobody said "I'm not cool with using firmware there's no published source for." At least neither of those things happened in any message traffic I've seen, and people here talk like they never happened at all.

Maybe there are people here who know better, and maybe you're one of them. I can easily believe that.

But nobody called him on it. Your culture didn't have that norm. And that lack is a bug.

Please. Nobody was going to get in legal trouble for using his binaries without a license. It was clear he intended the programs to be freely used. The orihalcon thing was a little odd, and maybe some exposure there due to the commercial nature, but he blessed that as well.

And he was called out for lack of releasing source. Almost immediately when he released 0.99. And those requests continued for years.

Nobody said "I'm not cool with using a binary I don't have the source for" because Soarer wasn't a dick. He was in a community working to solve a problem. He was trusted. Rightly so. But they had to choice to simply not use it.

He had his reasons for not releasing the source initially, and all that is documented. Right up the to days he disappeared he had been discussing the effort.

He chose to produce something and release it out into the world for others to benefit from. But it wasn't curing cancer. It was a something to making using an old keyboard easier, and it wasn't the only one.

To say he did "inexcusably careless, risky shit" is truly the height of assholery.

[esr]

To say he did "inexcusably careless, risky shit" is truly the height of assholery.

Sorry, I'm not backing down on that. Your failure to understand why is not a problem with me, it's a problem with practices that produce bad outcomes and your own willingness to accept them. Call me an asshole if you like, but I'll never leave my peers and users in the lurch the way he did.

That said, I hope we find Soarer alive. I'm serious about buying him that beer. After I berate him for doing stupid shit.