Alps spring mods - any sources for replacement springs?

[XMIT]

I'm thinking of modding some Matias Quiet Click switches to a lighter weight. Why? These switches are easy to source and still being made new.

It should be simple enough to switch out the springs, but, where might I find some more? Does anyone here have a good source of lighter weight Alps replacement springs?

I can always break out the calipers and look through a bunch of catalogs if it comes to it but I'm hoping someone has a simple answer here...

[emdude]

If you can afford to wait a bit, sprit over at GH is going to be producing custom springs in a bunch of weights: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=55888.0

[XMIT]

Huh, look at that. If that comes together, it would be perfect for what I'm looking to do.

I've also PM'd matias to see if he'll offer the lighter springs from the Matias Red switches. That could be a nice stopgap solution.

Otherwise, I'd harvest springs from Alps Orange switches, and that doesn't seem optimal at all...

[emdude]

I think I'll be watching sprit's GB too.. Hoping it will happen as well, I might want to pick up lighter springs for White or Salmon Alps.

[jbondeson]

I've been talking with Saimeidae on IRC (in #Mechboards) about doing this as well. He's been looking into more local sources to see if it can be done.

Hopefully one of the two efforts can come up with something.

[XMIT]

Oh, I didn't even know about #mechboards, just #geekhack and #deskthority. Any other sources?

I've had this idea of "Orange Creamsicle" Alps for a while now - that's the tactile leaf and spring from an Orange switch in a Cream Damped switch. I think that Matias Quiet Clicks with lighter springs feel almost nearly the same, and since I have a bunch of spare Matias switches here, that could be a fun mod.

[XMIT]

The group buy is open over on GH for replacement Alps springs.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=55 ... msg2251641

[Hypersphere]

I am relatively new at the world of Alps. Perhaps the combinations would be astronomical if all the moving parts were included, but if we were to start just with spring transplants, it could be helpful if someone were to post a table showing the starting switch, spring replacement, and approximate characteristics of the result.

For example, would there be any spring transplant into an SKCM white Alps that would result in a switch that was somewhat similar to an SKCM blue Alps? I suppose a lighter spring is only part of the story**, but this would be a start.

** Are blue Alps in fact lighter in weight than white Alps? The actuation force values published in the DT wiki indicate that the weights are essentially the same, but I recall seeing reports elsewhere that blue Alps are lighter than white Alps. Does anyone have the data and sources for this?

[Chyros]

I am relatively new at the world of Alps. Perhaps the combinations would be astronomical if all the moving parts were included, but if we were to start just with spring transplants, it could be helpful if someone were to post a table showing the starting switch, spring replacement, and approximate characteristics of the result.

For example, would there be any spring transplant into an SKCM white Alps that would result in a switch that was somewhat similar to an SKCM blue Alps? I suppose a lighter spring is only part of the story**, but this would be a start.

** Are blue Alps in fact lighter in weight than white Alps? The actuation force values published in the DT wiki indicate that the weights are essentially the same, but I recall seeing reports elsewhere that blue Alps are lighter than white Alps. Does anyone have the data and sources for this?

They feel somewhat lighter, but the actual switch weights are within margin of error for the machining of these parts.

Blue Alps are quite different from white Alps. Between the lifetime of the two, virtually every part was changed in one way or another.

[fohat]

Perhaps the combinations would be astronomical if all the moving parts were included, but if we were to start just with spring transplants,

it could be helpful if someone were to post a table showing the starting switch, spring replacement, and approximate characteristics of the result.

I would find this very helpful as well. The 2 Alps that I am enamored with are blue and orange, which seem to be roughly the same weight. If I could get springs that were perhaps one small step lighter, that would be ideal to me.

The whole spring thing confuses me since replacement spring weights almost always refer to "bottom-out" while keyboard key measurements usually refer to activation.

[emdude]

Shame the heaviness of brown Alps comes from the tactile leaf, if it were possible to make them lighter with a spring swap, they would become nearly perfect switches for me.

[Chyros]

The whole spring thing confuses me since replacement spring weights almost always refer to "bottom-out" while keyboard key measurements usually refer to activation.

Well the spring doesn't know when the switch feels like getting activated, right? xD

[fohat]

Well the spring doesn't know when the switch feels like getting activated, right?

Yes, that's right. What I really want to know is what new spring corresponds to my vintage blues and oranges, so I can go maybe 5-10 less, and whether they will still function properly at that weight.

[Chyros]

Well the spring doesn't know when the switch feels like getting activated, right?

Yes, that's right. What I really want to know is what new spring corresponds to my vintage blues and oranges, so I can go maybe 5-10 less, and whether they will still function properly at that weight.

Tbh I think it might be more of a function of the leaf spring than the coil one. The force diagram suggests that the tactile bump is the highest required force in the key travel.

[Hypersphere]

Cherry mx switches should all obey Hooke's law, F = -kx, where F is the force, k is a constant, and x is the distance. The "tactile" Cherry switches simply graft a bump onto the switch stem, creating a momentary ramp and fall in force, but the slope of the force-displacement curve should return to that of the pre-bump force as soon as the bump is traversed. With tactile or tactile/clicky Alps, the situation is more complex, because there is the addition of a tactile leaf along with a Hookean spring. Even so, it should be possible to measure the spring constant of the spring in an Alps switch and use this to gauge which replacement spring to use to produce a desired increase or decrease in switch stiffness.

[Hypersphere]

UPDATE:

"Spirit" is now selling Alps springs via at least two outlets:

1. eBay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/222396774240?ul_noapp=true

(Scroll down to find the listings for Alps springs).

2. Mekanisk:

https://mekanisk.co/collections/keyboar ... -keyboards

QUESTION: How to determine which weight to get? What is the correspondence between the weight rating of the spring and the actuation or bottom-out force of Alps switches?

[need]

UPDATE:

"Spirit" is now selling Alps springs via at least two outlets:

1. eBay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/222396774240?ul_noapp=true

(Scroll down to find the listings for Alps springs).

2. Mekanisk:

https://mekanisk.co/collections/keyboar ... -keyboards

QUESTION: How to determine which weight to get? What is the correspondence between the weight rating of the spring and the actuation or bottom-out force of Alps switches?

[codemonkeymike]

Interesting, wasn't that guy banned from selling on Geekhack for not shipping springs to some people who paid?

[Hypersphere]

Interesting, wasn't that guy banned from selling on Geekhack for not shipping springs to some people who paid?

Not sure if he was banned. I did see some controversy about it over on GH, but I was in on the GB, and I received the springs I ordered. Now I am interested in getting more of them, but I am unsure what weight of spring to order. Presumably, there is more buyer protection available when purchasing through eBay.

[drevyek]

I've been using 50g and 40g springs for a while in creams. The 40g are for my mods (linear modded) and the 50s are for my alphas. It makes them feel great. The lower actuation force makes them a lot smoother, but also a lot less tactile. For me, that's great. The typing feel is really nice. I love linears at low weights, so the 40g springs there are dreams.

When I ordered, they were mailed withing 2 days of me paying, and arrived the next week from Korea. I have only positive things to say about my interaction with Sprit. I am, though, heavily in the minority.

[Hypersphere]

Finally got a reply from Spirit via eBay. He recommends 50 - 55 g springs in clicky Alps to achieve a total apparent weight of 60 - 65 g in an Alps clicky switch, such as a SKCM blue Alps. This agrees with the results of my most recent experiments with modding SKCL green Alps with various combinations of top housings, sliders, click leaves, and return springs.

[M4dn3ss]

Finally got a reply from Spirit via eBay. He recommends 50 - 55 g springs in clicky Alps to achieve a total apparent weight of 60 - 65 g in an Alps clicky switch, such as a SKCM blue Alps.

Are we assuming that SKCM Blue is 70g? (And therefore a 50g spring would feel a bit lighter than an unmodified SKCM Blue?)

[Hypersphere]

Finally got a reply from Spirit via eBay. He recommends 50 - 55 g springs in clicky Alps to achieve a total apparent weight of 60 - 65 g in an Alps clicky switch, such as a SKCM blue Alps.

Are we assuming that SKCM Blue is 70g? (And therefore a 50g spring would feel a bit lighter than an unmodified SKCM Blue?)

The DT wiki gives the actuation force for SKCM blue Alps as 70g. The "ripometer" site gives a range of 65-72g for blue Alps. I'm not quite sure what Spirit had in mind, but my speculation is that he was thinking of modding other Alps switches to give them the perceived lighter feel of blue Alps (even though blue Alps have a reported actuation force of 65-72g, which is in the range of SKCM white Alps, 65-69g).

[M4dn3ss]

Finally got a reply from Spirit via eBay. He recommends 50 - 55 g springs in clicky Alps to achieve a total apparent weight of 60 - 65 g in an Alps clicky switch, such as a SKCM blue Alps.

Are we assuming that SKCM Blue is 70g? (And therefore a 50g spring would feel a bit lighter than an unmodified SKCM Blue?)

The DT wiki gives the actuation force for SKCM blue Alps as 70g. The "ripometer" site gives a range of 65-72g for blue Alps. I'm not quite sure what Spirit had in mind, but my speculation is that he was thinking of modding other Alps switches to give them the perceived lighter feel of blue Alps (even though blue Alps have a reported actuation force of 65-72g, which is in the range of SKCM white Alps, 65-69g).

I actually just contacted Sprit, he told me the springs in Blue Alps are 50cN