86' Model M Solenoid... Possible?

Puro · 04 Feb 2022, 06:22

Hello, I'm completely new here and this is my very first post, fairly simple so I'll get right to it!

I'm re-building a 1986 Model M keyboard, so far only three springs were busted, very dirty, but no major issues.
However, I read and saw somewhere that solenoids were sold and used for Model F's... would be amazing to fit one of those in my keyboard while I'm at it.

Anyone ever tried that before? Is is possible? Any info would help.
Thanks!

I got pictures if need be.

Muirium · 04 Feb 2022, 12:40

Solenoids need a fair bit of juice to fire. The way we're doing that with USB keyboards is with an artful piece of work by Xwhatsit: his solenoid driver, designed to step up the power from his beamspring (and later also Model F) controller for IBM original solenoids to do their thing. Xwhatsit vanished long ago but his hardware is open source and often available. Here's the first thread to pop up in a DT search:

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=24126&hilit=solenoid+xwhatsit

Now, you're talking about a Model M, which is a slightly different matter. Xwhatsit never made a replacement controller for those. I'm not sure how you'd hook up a solenoid driver, but I suspect it's possible and someone's already done it. I know some people are fair mad for solenoids!

jsheradin · 04 Feb 2022, 14:58

It can definitely be done. You'll need to make a replacement QMK controller similar to this. QMK has built in support for solenoids. You should be able to use the same solenoid and driver that's used in other projects as long as there's room to stuff them in the case.

Puro · 07 Feb 2022, 22:22

Terribly sorry for the delayed reply, work's been a pain.
Alright! Ho boy. So, first things firsts, I'm just some guy that's an avid restorer... and even though I know how to solder and got a loose grasp of basic electronics, I also know absolutely jack sh*t about programming... This is already way above my paygrade right now, ahah!

So... from what I'm gathering here, and correct me if I'm wrong, the QMK is basically something that'll replace the stock circuit board found in my Model M, which I'll have to program (that's the part that worries me most). Following that, I'll also have to fabricate the solenoid module... and connect it to the QMK.

Am I getting this correctly? Thanks!

jsheradin · 08 Feb 2022, 00:35

More or less. QMK is a customizable firmware that supports pretty much any hardware with some configuration. I linked to a replacement controller that someone else has already made for an M and set up QMK to work with it. You'll need to do a couple edits to that firmware to add solenoid support (no joke, less than 10 lines to make it work). You'd wire it up as described with the addition of a solenoid and driver and tada you have a working keyboard.

Sounds pretty crazy but it's a great way to dive into making custom controllers.

Muirium · 08 Feb 2022, 01:52

Yeah. That controller looks just right for learning your way around as a first keyboard hacking project. The hardware is very approachable. The software, well, that's where the real learning happens.

Which of Ellipse's solenoid and driver models would you suggest? Xwhatsit never made it so complex in the day. He sold one kind of solenoid driver, and you hooked it up to what IBM gave ya!

jsheradin · 08 Feb 2022, 02:24

Muirium wrote: ↑
08 Feb 2022, 01:52
Which of Ellipse's solenoid and driver models would you suggest? Xwhatsit never made it so complex in the day. He sold one kind of solenoid driver, and you hooked it up to what IBM gave ya!

The page I linked to has a few capacitive controllers but as far as I know there's still just the one solenoid and one driver.

Spoiler:

$65 total ain't cheap but a solenoid in an M would definitely be something interesting.

Muirium · 08 Feb 2022, 09:57

Oh right. It loads better on the phone. And here I am with supposed F and beamspring experience myself!

Get one of these:

To power one of these:

That’s the simple part. The driver needs no software of its own. It just clicks. VERY LOUDLY

The magic happens over on the controller.

Puro · 09 Feb 2022, 07:50

Muirium wrote: ↑
08 Feb 2022, 09:57
Oh right. It loads better on the phone. And here I am with supposed F and beamspring experience myself!

Get one of these:

To power one of these:

That’s the simple part. The driver needs no software of its own. It just clicks. VERY LOUDLY

The magic happens over on the controller.

Just found a thing!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNfHxWGpgcA

Not sure what the guy used... this, apparently. Whatever that is.
https://www.keebtalk.com/t/how-to-insta ... ns-8x/3849

Also, would I still need the QMK with that driver you just shown?