Topre vs Matias-silent switches. My first impressions

[Trev]

Quick impression of Matias "silent" switches, and a bit about the "Laptop Pro" keyboard itself:

I'm comparing the Matias to Topre silent switches because they're right beside me, I can do direct typing comparisons.
The Matias silent switches are like a chunky, sloppy feeling Topre... and oddly, that isn't a bad thing at all! They both have similar high activation points.

There's definitely an ALPS-wobble to the keys. It's similar to the left control key on Realforce keyboards, but with less slack. I don't think this actually hinders typing. Travel distance "feels" noticeably shorter (than Topre), but again... not a bad thing.

Actuation force hardly feels different to 45g, but the keys spring back harder than 45g Topres. It gives the impression you're typing faster/more accurately. This is probably more perception than reality. It's a crisper/sharper motion with a somewhat wobbly cap on top. This may seem strange and contradictory, but they've got character and feel great to type on.

Only (minor) negatives so far:
- Function key next to the cursor-up key bothers me a bit.
- Plastic seams of the case make it look cheap. The silver case finish itself looks better in person, slightly more like metal/Alu, especially in the Queensland sun.
- Viewing from the side, the keycaps tilt slightly in random directions. OCD types might not like this.

So far, I like Matias silent switches better. I'm really happy I took the chance and ordered this keyboard.

Token blurry phone shot (I can add a proper photo later if anyone requests it):

[gmjhowe]

Nice first impressions, thanks for sharing.

[CeeSA]

yes, thank for review. The PC Version is not out now, right?

[Trev]

http://www.matias.ca/miniquietpro/pc/

[LaCap]

Thanks for the review.
I ordered the Tactile mini pro. I can't wait to try it...

[huttala]

Are they louder then regular topres?
Nice review by the way, might buy this board just because of it.

[Julle]

I've been curious to try these switches, but I'm somehow under the impression that they feel kind of laggy. Is there any truth in that? Are you able to compare them to for example MX browns?

[Trev]

I've been curious to try these switches, but I'm somehow under the impression that they feel kind of laggy. Is there any truth in that? Are you able to compare them to for example MX browns?

I haven't used browns myself, but I definitely wouldn't describe these as being laggy in any way.

[Trev]

My wife volunteered to test a few key switches to determine her favorite.

Some quick background info: She's never used a mechanical keyboard, works as an accounts manager at a large company, and can touch type quite quickly/accurately. Her work keyboard is a fairly new Dell membrane type and sees heavy usage.

Her favourites were:
1) Matias Laptop Pro with quiet ALPS
2) Das Keyboard with Cherry MX Blues (scored this kb for free today)
3) Realforce 87U with Topre Silent switches

She had a tougher time choosing between the blues and ALPS, but in the end she definitely favoured the ALPS. She described the Topre switches as "soft", while refusing to offer a better explanation.

She also used explicit phrases to describe the ALPS that I can't even repeat here. All positive.

I was careful to not influence her opinion or interfere. Obviously this is a very brief and informal run, but she still tested each board for 3 mini typing sessions.

It's interesting to hear the first impressions from an "outsider" (to our cult) who does a lot of typing

[Trev]

Are they louder then regular topres?
Nice review by the way, might buy this board just because of it.

Unsure, since I haven't heard regular Topre. The Matias quiet switches are about the same volume as an average membrane keyboard, pretty quiet. They'd be fine for any workplace or home-office where you're sharing space with other people.

I still don't regret the purchase. I was using the Das+Blues today and was happy to return to the Matias ALPS this evening.

Das+blues seems even louder than other blues I've heard. Very noisy!

[matt3o]

thanks for sharing, Trev.

now we'd just need a tactile vs clicky APLS comparison It's pretty important for you-know-what

[Trev]

thanks for sharing, Trev.

now we'd just need a tactile vs clicky APLS comparison It's pretty important for you-know-what

Definitely. I'll need to hold off on new kb purchases for a while. That's 3 boards + 1 incoming (Pure/blues) in a very short space of time. At least I didn't pay for the Das.

Are clicky Matias vs quiet really that much different? Seems like the quiet version is perhaps about 90% similar in feel, according to random forum opinions.

[matt3o]

Are clicky Matias vs quiet really that much different? Seems like the quiet version is perhaps about 90% similar in feel, according to random forum opinions.

I don't know, but if it's like from mx blue and mx brown it would be quite a difference

[Trev]

Are clicky Matias vs quiet really that much different? Seems like the quiet version is perhaps about 90% similar in feel, according to random forum opinions.

I don't know, but if it's like from mx blue and mx brown it would be quite a difference

Haven't tried browns myself, but I'd guess the Matias-quiet are probably more tactile. It's a well defined bump, high-actuation, followed by bottoming out. Fairly short key travel.

[Trev]

[guilleguillaume]

I'm tempted to try this switch.

[Julle]

I've been curious to try these switches, but I'm somehow under the impression that they feel kind of laggy. Is there any truth in that? Are you able to compare them to for example MX browns?

I haven't used browns myself, but I definitely wouldn't describe these as being laggy in any way.

Thank you, I think your review seals the deal for me. I'll get the mini version as soon as Keyboardco. has it in stock.

[LaCap]

A picture of the Tactile version.



The keyboard look really cheap compare to my HHKB or my Realforce.
And it's a lot lighter than the Topre switches...
For now I'm a little bit disappointed.
But I love the design of the 'board.

[Trev]

A picture of the Tactile version.



The keyboard look really cheap compare to my HHKB or my Realforce.
And it's a lot lighter than the Topre switches...
For now I'm a little bit disappointed.
But I love the design of the 'board.

I agree with you on these points. However, It's important to keep in mind how different the pricing is between these keyboards. The Matias was $169 shipped. My Realforce was around $360 shipped (before the EK price drop).

I'm still enjoying the Matias switches, but I'm consistently more accurate on Topre. I'm really looking forward to seeing all of the custom keyboard projects that can make use of these ALPS instead of the same old MX switches everyone already knows.

More pros for the Matias as I use it further:
- Having bluetooth with such a huge battery (1600mah, I think?) is handy.
- The switches have worked-in a bit, they seem slightly more free-flowing.

Cons
- It really does look rather cheap, my wife even commented on this (and she doesn't usually notice or care). It's mostly the silver paint with highly visible plastic seam around the edges that doesn't help. It's the sort of build style you'd expect to see on a cheap Chinese toy. The keyboard legs are highly slippery. The front rubber feet are also small and not soft enough to be really grippy.

It's important to note that despite these (mostly minor) flaws, I still think it's a better keyboard to type on than much of what's out there. These switches have a much higher actuation point, which I think many people might prefer to Cherry MX.

[oneproduct]

Oh gosh, I just noticed that they don't use FN with the arrow keys to get home/end/page up/down...

Fn+Up = page up
Fn+Right = end (since end moves all the way to the right)

etc. That would have been so much better. :S

[Trev]

Oh gosh, I just noticed that they don't use FN with the arrow keys to get home/end/page up/down...

Fn+Up = page up
Fn+Right = end (since end moves all the way to the right)

etc. That would have been so much better. :S

I know... I was thinking of remapping it. fn+up is eject? Eject what? I haven't seen an optical disc for a long time.

[oneproduct]

I can sort of understand that for most people, page up and down are useful as dedicated keys for documents and web browsing and that most casual users don't use home or end ever.

[matt3o]

As much as I like the switches... I can't stand the overall poor build quality for such a premium price.

what does make the keys so loose? The keycap grip on the switch, the switch soldering position, defects on the keycap stem, or what?

[Trev]

As much as I like the switches... I can't stand the overall poor build quality for such a premium price.

what does make the keys so loose? The keycap grip on the switch, the switch soldering position, defects on the keycap stem, or what?

I'd speculate the wobble is just a characteristic of the switch design. The keycaps fit very tightly on the switch stems, so I doubt it's actual keycap wobbling.

The keycaps being un-even in the photo is not due to the wobble, but rather the switches aren't properly level on the board. You can evenly push a group of keys in one direction, to the extent of their give/wobble, and they still don't line up straight. It's an actual mounting issue of some kind + poor QA.

The important thing to note here is that the switch wobble doesn't affect the quality of typing. It would be easy to dwell on it, but the fact is that these switches (IMO) feel pretty damn nice. I'm typing quickly and accurately. They're actually feeling better after a few days, more free flowing. From what I remember of the Apple Extended KB and others, this is quite similar.

It's worth noting that the switches themselves look pretty badass. Well... as badass as a key-switch can look. Clear polycarbonate was an interesting choice. They look pretty solid.

Overall build quality and tighter tolerances would be the determining factor bringing me back to Topre. If i'd never owned or tried a Realforce, the Matias would be my keyboard for a very long time.

The next keyboard I'm going to buy/try will probably be the HHKB2 or HHKB2 "Type-S" (which I assume stands for SuperExpensive).

[matt3o]

I was also considering a HHKB2 before starting the custom keyboard project, sincerely I don't know if I can get used to the weird shortcuts though.

[Trev]

I was also considering a HHKB2 before starting the custom keyboard project, sincerely I don't know if I can get used to the weird shortcuts though.

I love the Realforce 87U except for two things: 1) variable weighting, and 2) it's a bit too big (for my taste)

Fn-arrows are the only possible issue for me with the HHKB. Layout wise I'm totally fine with the rest of it. I use Sublime Text and do a lot of option+l-arrow or r-arrow (jump between words), or cmd+l-arrow/r-arrow. I'm not sure if having to add an additional fn key to that process would make it too tedious.

[matt3o]

I would definitely prefer dedicated arrow keys with fn+up=pageup, fn+down=pagedown, fn+right=end, fn+left=home. I use sublime a lot and code navigation is crucial

[Trev]

Another example is text selection: opt+shift+left would become opt+shift+fn-left
I suppose the only way to know for certain is to try. Worst case I'd lose some more money reselling keyboards. I'd still have the Pure with clears and hopefully your 60%+ project with ALPS as additional boards

[Trev]

As much as I like the switches... I can't stand the overall poor build quality for such a premium price.

what does make the keys so loose? The keycap grip on the switch, the switch soldering position, defects on the keycap stem, or what?

Took off a few more keycaps. I can confirm that the wobble is caused purely by the switch stem in the housing. It's just a characteristic of the switch itself.

It would be interesting to compare to some similar old ALPS to see how much give they have. I can't imagine the Matias ones would be any worse, they seem to be really well built.

[matt3o]

I have quite a few alps switches, none of them wobble significantly except for the very cheap ALPS green. This concerns me a little. What is wobbling in not the keycap inside the stem but the stem itself.