Cherry MX and Matias switches

[Ekaros]

If he really did it on purpose then he is an asshole.

Any reasonable and normal human being would have contacted someone first...

But I also blame Paypal... Evil company, too bad they are so big and easy. I'm not sure if there are any other payment systems which would allow the run times of these group buys...

[7bit]

So SEPA is superior system? ;D

On other hand if I wanted my money back I would have to go to police... And I have no idea how to deal with German one...

Please send me a message first.

[7bit]

I'm really upset with how the situation was dealt in that thread in Geekhack. Kayliss didn't answer anything and didn't tell his part of the story which leads everyone to trust 7Bit's words because he is an old time member and already have a good reputation.

A lot of people would be putting him in their Black Lists because of that, no one would like to deal with a person like that.

I don't like Paypal either but sometimes I have no other choice but to use it. I prefer to use IBAN transfer inside EU.

I must pretend that that was the purpose of the thread.

He could have apologized to me and could have withdrawn his dispute and could have told me what the real issue was. I only assumed he would want to jump off, because what else could it be if someone files a dispute?

Because most people get it still wrong:
He ordered 360 MXCLEAR switches which where up for preorder at 054 EUR per switch, plus 4 EUR shipping. The estimated delivery was September 2013. If he didn't knew that, he is too stupid to read the invoice text:

Code: Select all

MXCLEARP|MX1A-C1NN (Preorder 09/2013)| 0.54|360|360|194.40

[metafour]

Wait! All those switches I ordered aren't going to be shipping until September? Filing PayPal dispute now!

Are you really expecting some Whites at the end of July? If so are they all bought and paid for already?

[7bit]

clear MX switches "GB" by pexon.

Nothing against pexon, but I found the need to tell everybody that I have a cheper source. I order part of the switches from the even cheaper (but incomplete) GH60 source, BTW.

Some people seem to think that with groupbuy organizers making a profit, they can/should be treated like professional sellers.

When looking at those many bags for Round 3 replacements I have to ship, I doubt I make any profit from Round 4.


On the other hand, I've got the key caps I ever need. Any additional group buy would just for pleasure, not for need.
So I think it was worth it.

... Only thing you get to know are preorder prices that the GB organizer seems to be able to prolong or deny more or less at will. This does look like a shop, not like gb any more to newer people. IMO there's a lack of transparency that can lead to the notion that these are professional undertakings.

I run the CherryMX group buy until the Hyper project finished. Then, you can have all the details and do it yourself.

The costs for the switches are little lower than what I take, but there are re-shipments and not always I pay 4 EUR for postage and packing.

With round 4 it was different in that there was a clear goal and a clear order to SP at some point in time, and people more or less knew what was going on. It was like you'd expect a group buy to be.

But even there, I for one never understood some aspects. in this case especially the whole handling of leftovers. I came to deskthority when the ordering phase of round 4 was already over, and there was a huge list of so-called leftovers in 7bit's system at that time. Where did the "stock" numbers come from, how were they even determined?

I ordered more kits than had been ordered at the deadline. I had not much money. If I had I would have ordered the most popular stuff (TKL kits mainly) in even higher quantities. I've ordered a lot of extra kits during Round 3 and could have at last sold 30 extra STANDARD kits during the shipping time.

Next, that "leftover" list diminished over time to almost nothing. Yet after the sorting phase, there suddenly were these 10.000 random keycaps that went into dummy sets. I mean, that's 1/4 of the volume of the whole GB! Why were these even made, and why weren't they in the leftover lists? And even after the dummy kits, 7bit seems to have enough leftover stuff to handle sorting errors and the like.

Some keys where made twice by SP. I don't know why, maybe they lost track of what they did. I saw it on their production labels. I had quite a hard time to find out that the 122 extra LEFT RIGHT UP DOWN SPH-style key caps are overrun. Also, there are some overruns of language kit keys. Some languages have keys in common, which are not left over, but a lot of special keys are. I also made sure that the number of keys to be produced is even and 8 keys of a kind was the minimum.

Please notice that the whole thing is insane enough. I somehow can understand that GMK does not want to do such insanity. We can complain about SP quality what we want, but they produce 8 keys of one kind. They would even do 1 key, but I'm not such a sadist.


The DUMMY kit itself was a very bad idea. It had been born when I believed I could order a larger overrun. On the other hand it was quite some nice thing for some people to get some nice extras.

This is just an example, I'm sure 7bit has put a lot of thought into group buys and how to handle them that I just don't understand, and it might have been explained at some time in the 4000-posts thread of that GB during the last 2 years, but still -- to me these group buys need more transparency.

I'm sad you missed the transparent keys we had ...

Wanna buy transparent switches instead?

I don't want to excuse Kayliss's action, but I'm almost sure he didn't know what he was doing at all (and did't think a lot or ask a lot either of course). From the perspective of someone new to this, it's kind of hard to understand how this works and how a Paypal dispute can delay a whole GB.

I order stuff from large company. They tell me on their website: stuff will be delivered in September.

I order.
I pay.
After 1.5 months, long before September 2013 I decide that there is a lack of communication (whatever that is) and instead of asking the them, just file a PayPal dispute to wake them up.

All I want to say: there needs to be more explaining going on in the GBs, so people can build trust and discern them from all the commecial stuff that's going on GH. I mean look at pexon ... he clearly isn't interested in switches himself at all, he's a pro and he does this for profit, not even minding another GB on MX clears already going on. And from his reaction I'd even say he sees 7bit as just some other pro who competes against him.

There is far less explaining in pexons thread! He did not say he can have them in a week as he stated later.

BTW, he says he will order when there are enough people placeed an order for the switches.

When I compare his and my prices, he can't gain much from the switches. 17.5 vs. 19% VAT isn't much to compensate shipping to and from him. If someone wants to beat me out, he must be located next to the Cherry factory and pick up the switches in person to cheap out on the already marginal shipping costs.

Let's see who is quicker here.

[7bit]

Wait! All those switches I ordered aren't going to be shipping until September? Filing PayPal dispute now!

Are you really expecting some Whites at the end of July? If so are they all bought and paid for already?

This is the date they told me. Sometimes they come earlier. Mostly they do come just in time.

If they don't come in September, I would understand that people want to jump off, but not now.

edit:
One more thing: I've got a lot of money in unsold switches.

I don't want prices to fall below the price I paid for them.

Otherwise, I would be screwed, so I hope nobody finds out my still unbeatable source until I've sold most of them.

[Soarer]

And how about all that profit you make, 7bit?

1000s, I heard!

Just a shame it had a '-' in front of it

[pexon]

7bit, no hard feelings, I hate internet drama, I do not mean/want to step on anyones feet.

[7bit]

7bit, no hard feelings, I hate internet drama, I do not mean/want to step on anyones feet.

Hey pexon, I don't have anything against your group buy. I had no idea you can deliver quicker and also posted it:

Buy from pexon if you want them wthin a few weeks.

Buy them cheaper from 7bit if you want them in September 2017.


The only thing I did not like is to call it threadcrapping when I remark there is a cheaper source.

Ripster threadcraped the hell out of Round 3 and 4, but I loved it.

[7bit]

And how about all that profit you make, 7bit?

1000s, I heard!

Just a shame it had a '-' in front of it

I calculated the costs and what I paid for my own caps etc, and thought I would be +-0. Then I realised I did not consider shipping of the regular orders and even worse of those many Round 3 replacements. Then there are some little things I messed up myself (wrong row, wrong color) which I had to pay for.

[pexon]

7bit, no hard feelings, I hate internet drama, I do not mean/want to step on anyones feet.

Hey pexon, I don't have anything against your group buy. I had no idea you can deliver quicker and also posted it:

Buy from pexon if you want them wthin a few weeks.

Buy them cheaper from 7bit if you want them in September 2017.


The only thing I did not like is to call it threadcrapping when I remark there is a cheaper source.

Ripster threadcraped the hell out of Round 3 and 4, but I loved it.

OK its all good then. But when people see an oppertunity to bitch, they do. I'll stop posting now, as it adds nothing of value to the thread. Peace out!

[7bit]

If you ask me, 90% of the last 2 pages could be scraped without losing the main information.

But from time to time we really have to drive our keyboards to the limits, so the don't rust in.

[Soarer]

And how about all that profit you make, 7bit?

1000s, I heard!

Just a shame it had a '-' in front of it

I calculated the costs and what I paid for my own caps etc, and thought I would be +-0. Then I realised I did not consider shipping of the regular orders and even worse of those many Round 3 replacements. Then there are some little things I messed up myself (wrong row, wrong color) which I had to pay for.

You know I like to complain about your group buys, so...... I complain that you try too hard not to make a profit!!!

[Halvar]

7bit, thanks for the long answer, I learned a lot that I didn't know and wish I had known earlier. A lot of this should IMO have been posted at some prominent place for everyone in this to read. New people need to be constantly reminded by facts that they are dealing with someone who is doing this as a hobby, because he shares the interest. Then they are less likely to do asshole things. That's my whole point.

I really hope you are making a profit that's worth all this madness.

I'm sad you missed the transparent keys we had ...

I did order a transparent spacebar that is in the mail right now, but don't get me started on what I missed because I was was basically too late to the party for anything really useful... In the end, I would have been way better off if I had ordered a bunch of dummy kits. On the other hand, I only waited a few weeks for my order ...

I order stuff from large company. They tell me on their website: stuff will be delivered in September.

I order.
I pay.
After 1.5 months, long before September 2013 I decide that there is a lack of communication (whatever that is) and instead of asking the them, just file a PayPal dispute to wake them up.

No, certainly not from a groupbuy where I know how it works. You're absolutely right.

If I order and pay for something four months before delivery from a professional dealer though, and if I try to contact him with something serious (whatever that could be, granted) during the time that he has taken my money and hasn't delivered yet, and he just plays dead for a long time and doesn't care to answer -- yes then I could imagine myself to panic and try to use all means to get out of the deal before I lose my money. As I understand you and webwit, this trying to contact you wasn't happening here, and you are on DT daily so you don't seem to be dead or have flown to the Caymans with the money, and a groupbuy is different.

[7bit]

What makes you think I don't post from the Caymans?

[Halvar]

Hmmm ... my R4 order hasn't arrived yet even though you said you shipped it on thursday, so I should get nervous... Thanks, I'll open a dispute right now.

[pasph]

and this?
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=414 ... #msg914152
naaa too tired going to bed

[jabar]

Hmmm ... my R4 order hasn't arrived yet even though you said you shipped it on thursday, so I should get nervous... Thanks, I'll open a dispute right now.

yeah I'm logging into PayPal right now. AMAZON ships same day, What is with this customer service

[Netsu]

7bit, I just payed for the order via swift transfer.
How can I track status of my order and be sure, is it alright?
Thanks.

[RougeRambo]

If he really did it on purpose then he is an asshole.

Any reasonable and normal human being would have contacted someone first...

But I also blame Paypal... Evil company, too bad they are so big and easy. I'm not sure if there are any other payment systems which would allow the run times of these group buys...

tell me about it....

[Muirium]

Doesn't Kickstarter use Amazon for deferred payments? There's plenty of projects there with goals in the low thousands, seems about the right kind of scale for fairly big group buys like this.

[acfrazier]

Doesn't Kickstarter use Amazon for deferred payments? There's plenty of projects there with goals in the low thousands, seems about the right kind of scale for fairly big group buys like this.

They do, and with Amazon unless you are buying from an Amazon reseller there is no dispute process (except with the CC company, but Amazon will generally not come after you for the money). I personally stopped using PayPal except for personal payments after the last group buy I ran, they locked up the funds for no reason at all.

[7bit]

BUMP!

Please pre-order switches here!

[Acanthophis]

Payment/"shipping" update

Payments from sriak, fiftypoints, and TheJJ have been received and marked as shipped for Paypal purposes (to keep them from locking up the PP account). Invoices may or may not reflect the payments yet. Keep checking this thread for the actual ship date(s), or spam this thread/7bit via PM the message "WHERE ARE MY SWITCHES, DID YOU SEND THEM YET." This only includes payments to me via Paypal. Note that the address on your Paypal notifications/notes are not necessarily the addresses 7bit will ship your switches to, he ships to the address on your invoice.

[Jocelyn]

Hi, I'm wondering when the cutoff date will be extended to? Wondering if I will be able to preorder in early august? If not it's okay, but I am curious. Thanks!!!

[7bit]

Hi, I'm wondering when the cutoff date will be extended to? Wondering if I will be able to preorder in early august? If not it's okay, but I am curious. Thanks!!!

Some switches will be delivered in late July / early August, so they will not be on pre-order anymore.

Also, some might be sold out again and I will not run CherryMX group buys forever.

[Jocelyn]

Some switches will be delivered in late July / early August, so they will not be on pre-order anymore.

Also, some might be sold out again and I will not run CherryMX group buys forever.

That's fine. Thank You for the quick reply!

[luckynet]

Plz buy! Recommended!! And yeah nothing last forever! Free bump from zee far east

[7bit]

Got a news about the preorders:
MXCLEAR, MXGREEN and MXWHITE will be delivered at the end of July.

[PixelScript]

Got a news about the preorders:
MXCLEAR, MXGREEN and MXWHITE will be delivered at the end of July.

Thank's for the update! Maybe i should get my switches delivered strait to me instead of with my GH60. How much would the shipping cost change?