Opinions / Pre-Orders - NEW Limited Edition Cherry Keyboard

[Halvar]

Because

Whilst we're not tied to this figure in the UK, if we cannot generate 4000pcs as a whole, worldwide, the keyboard won't be produced at all. At the moment, the Far-Eastern market is being canvassed for their interest ...

[Muirium]

Surely Germany will be a bigger market for this board than Korea! ISO isn't just a regional oddity (as compared to ISO with UK caps, which definitely is). ISO is the way of the world! Well, a great big European-heavy chunk of it.

Perhaps what he means is that there will only be one set of caps for this keyboard, period. So it's not ISO vs. ANSI in this fight, but ISO German vs. ANSI US, ISO French vs. ANSI US, ISO Swedish vs. ANSI US. etc. Disappointing perspective, if so. Because you're permanently stuck on one side of the ANSI vs. ISO divide, no matter what caps you get in future.

[BucklingSpring]

I would buy one

[Peter]

I could be interested aswell but I don't really understand why it has to be ANSI only ...

Because 'they' want some of the idiot-money the yankee-south-koreans are spending on ....
YOU KNOW WHAT !!

How much did that gold idiot-skull sell for ??
A LOT more than what I can get for a genuine NIB model M !!

And this keyboard is just another stupid skull-fucker money-magnet ..
'Limited edition' blablablabla ...

You know what Cherry-dude ?
Maybe, if you clowns hadn't sold your injection-moulding machines ......

And we can't get dye-sub ISO-sets ... Because THERE IS NO MOULD FOR THE 'Return'-key ??
I can't have my windows polished, because I need to pay for the guys ladder first !!!

Those 4 crystals are IN FACT a LOT 'rarer' than this 'limited edition' keyboard will ever be ..

[robin13867]

But why ANSI?

The simple answer is to do with markets. The biggest market for these keyboards at the moment is the far east and generally, they use a modified ANSI layout. The G80-3494 model series is currently NOT available as an ISO variant - believe me, I've asked for it to be done and this, unfortunately, requires a complete change of PCB, so a total re-design, which for the numbers we're likely to sell here, isn't something they can do.

I don't like it any more than you guys on the forum, but it's all we can do...sorry!

[Muirium]

Fair enough, Robin. Thanks for passing along the actual reason. And feel free to give your pointy haired boss (or however high up the chain he is) a snarl from us!

[robin13867]

I could be interested aswell but I don't really understand why it has to be ANSI only ...

Because 'they' want some of the idiot-money the yankee-south-koreans are spending on ....
YOU KNOW WHAT !!

How much did that gold idiot-skull sell for ??
A LOT more than what I can get for a genuine NIB model M !!

And this keyboard is just another stupid skull-fucker money-magnet ..
'Limited edition' blablablabla ...

You know what Cherry-dude ?
Maybe, if you clowns hadn't sold your injection-moulding machines ......


And we can't get dye-sub ISO-sets ... Because THERE IS NO MOULD FOR THE 'Return'-key ??
I can't have my windows polished, because I need to pay for the guys ladder first !!!

Those 4 crystals are IN FACT a LOT 'rarer' than this 'limited edition' keyboard will ever be ..

Hey, calm down!! Look, the simple fact is that we're producing a 'limited edition' model based on a G80-3494 keyboard that's not available at all in an ISO layout. If you don't like it or don't want to buy it, think it's too expensive or simply don't like Cherry products, then that's fine - the idea was simply to gauge opinion, nothing more. At the end of the day, if there's not enough interest, we simply won't take it, simple as that.

The fact of the matter with the mould machines though, is that it's simply not cost effective in our business to continue with double shot caps, otherwise we'd have priced ourselves straight out of the market. I understand that double shot caps are superior - I totally agree with you - but the simple economics of the whole thing outweigh the argument for continuing. As you can see from this model and it's price with double shot caps (and we're not making a bundle on this by the way), we'd be lucky to sell a handful a year, whereas laser etch is just as effective for 99% of users but at a fraction of the cost (G80-3000, around £65 in the UK, G80-3850, around £75). Dye-sub caps were stopped before I started working here, 16+ years ago, no doubt for similar reasons...

[robin13867]

Fair enough, Robin. Thanks for passing along the actual reason. And feel free to give your pointy haired boss (or however high up the chain he is) a snarl from us!

GRRRRR.............and one for luck.......GRRRRRRRR......

[Muirium]

The fact of the matter with the mould machines though, is that it's simply not cost effective in our business to continue with double shot caps, otherwise we'd have priced ourselves straight out of the market. I understand that double shot caps are superior - I totally agree with you - but the simple economics of the whole thing outweigh the argument for continuing.

…Laser etch is just as effective for 99% of users but at a fraction of the cost.

So true. It's pointless to blame Cherry for where the market has taken this business. There may be some money to be made in the super boutique segment so prominent on GH and Korean forums (diamond studded skulls, anyone?) but there's just not enough of those guys to run a large business from. Fine if you are small and exclusive a manufacturer. But the more of something there is, out there, the less those guys want and will pay for it. The very definition of unsustainable.

And the true mass market can't tell a keyboard from a half empty tube of toothpaste with QWERTY printed out on it. Ho hum.

I can understand the compromises you have to make in shipping anything we would like. So long as you keep shipping those MX switches so smaller manufacturers who can satisfy us on our own terms, or we can build the things ourselves.

[webwit]

I think Cherry blundered by not anticipating new developments, and completely mistimed their business decision to focus on cheap and flat and not on mechanical and double-shot, while they had the means and machinery. There's a whole new high end class of consumer keyboards now which are mechanical, even Logitech got into the game. All these keyboards, they use Cherry switches, yet Cherry managed to completely miss out on the action of complete keyboards, by focusing on cheaper and flatter. I think if Cherry had not cheapened its line with the G80-3494 construction and keycaps, but had made a Filco quality level tenkeyless keyboard, and put a classy silver Cherry logo on it or something like that, they would have a big chunk of that market right now.

[Muirium]

Perhaps. I do wonder just how big Filco + Ducky + Vortex + CM etc. etc. really are when it comes to consuming Cherry switches vs. Cherry itself. And what proportion of Cherry's keyboards sold are even MX. Obviously, they're not going to give us that information.

My gut feeling is that what seems like big business from our perspective — like the Filco Majestouch line — could be minuscule in truth. Obviously, high end consumer keyboards will sell less in number than generic junk, but it's all about how much so. We are right in that niche, but how far does it go?

Not to argue against the mistake Cherry made in direction. I think they dumped their capability too soon. But I can't say I think they would surely be successful today if only they had kept in the game. It's all ultimately the numbers.

[Grond]

If a company like Vortex – which I assume is much smaller than Cherry – is investing in making doubleshots and even experimenting PBT doubleshots, I would guess that:
a) The process is not impossibly expensive;
b) They expect to make some profit out of it.
Just guessing though.

[BimboBB]

correct....especially a company like cherry who is well established in that big, cheap massmarket and also in industrial stuff should be able to have capacities to establish a high end product line which makes logicrap's "high end" products look like baby toys.

on the other side, when they sold their machines....it was hard to expect that mechanical keyboards are going to celebrate a new revival.

and also nowadays we all know that products are not made anymore to hold a life long and being of superior quality. in fact its complete opposite....products are made to get broken after a certain time and secure a steady income for the maker. a high end product line would be more an image/commercial thing as for making (direct) money. but still and agreeing with webwit...they definitely missed out on that.

[webwit]

The HHKB is miniscule to Fujitsu, even if they make a margin that exceeds the margin on cheap keyboards. They sell it for the same reason Logitech sells mechanical keyboards. It reflects well on their brand and reputation to have a top line product instead of only cheap. And you bring in customers who buy high end stuff. Cherry is no Logitech anyway. Would it really not be substantial business?

[IvanIvanovich]

I would like to see 3 things from Cherry. First, a tenkeyless version based on 3000, second new version of 5000, third more things like this idea with limited edition. But limited edition don't have to be with doubleshots and so much more expensive than standard production. Could do something like colorful with same color casebody and blank PBT/POM keycap.
It's true that there are so many other competition for full boards and Cherry has fallen way behind in trying to stay competitive outside of the business sector. Hell, even upgrading the standard line from 2KRO would probably help quite a lot and that is not really a big something to add $1 in diodes to give it 6/NKRO.

[Grond]

It also seems to me that western companies mainly think that mechanical keyboards should be aimed to gamers only, and thus sport aggressive colors or ridiculous giant branding, leds and stuff – all leading to a tracky tuning car style.
I think good quality keyboards should be aimed to any professional who spend a lot of time typing and/or the general geek, and thus have a more discreet or elegant look. This way they'd also have a wider target and thus sell more!
I'm not saying this special edition Cherry look tacky, but it's sure more on the Logitech/CM Storm side than on Realforce/Filco/HHKB one. And of course those keyboards come in more flashy versions as well, but those are more optional than standard.

[002]

It's not really that hard to understand why they target gamers though. They will direct a lot of their money to their computers and are probably more likely to upgrade something even when it's not broken. Adding all the lights and bullshit that the gaming companies tend to do is just their way of justifying their price-tag for something that is essentially the same feel as any other Cherry MX keyboard.

[dirge]

Not to argue against the mistake Cherry made in direction. I think they dumped their capability too soon. But I can't say I think they would surely be successful today if only they had kept in the game. It's all ultimately the numbers.

Cherry was bought by a car manufacturer for their switches. Keyboards on their balance sheet just don't even factor in. Just not important to them.

[adhoc]

I really like the concept, love it actually, but ANSI, MX red AND that MX INSIDE logo kind of kills it for me.

It does make me wonder how it's not commercially viable for you to sell higher range materials on your keyboards when other companies are pulling it off...

Blah, I'd probably pull the trigger on it regardless. [EU]

[Ekaros]

I would only be interested in rarer ISO layouts, namely SE/FI...