Cherry reveals new MX switch!

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Matias have a fundamentally different use case for their switch. Not critical, but more justifiable. Matias prefer keycaps with LED windows rather than LED clusters. The problem is that Alps switches require a cubical enclosure, for the switchplate at the back and the vertical fold of the click/tactile leaf at the rear. This leaves no room for an LED, which is why Alps LED switches were always linear.

You could just about fit a corner LED in a simplified Alps switch (many switches did have corner LEDs), but no such switch existed, and Matias were compelled to purchase Alps clone switches as Forward must not have had an LED recess switch available (the spec I have is for linear without LED). Matias were actually getting returned keyboards from customers who mistook the linear caps lock key for a manufacturing defect, instead of a design necessity.

The Matias switch is transparent to allow an SMD LED to be placed on the bottom (component side) of the PCB. A hole on the PCB allows the light to shine backwards out from under the PCB via the hole and thence through the shell of the switch up to the LED window in the keycap. (You'd also be able to achieve this with a double-sided PCB, but the photos Matias (?) posted showed a single-sided PCB with the LEDs on the bottom.)

I can see Cherry's point with achieving a more even backlight, but it looks like CM were just flashing their wallet around in a way that anyone who cares about ergonomics and quality control (all those non-clicking blues and greens) just cannot do.

[Muirium]

Who should that be?

Well, now that I'm writing keyboard switch fan fic, I'll make it Metadot/Das…

Or actually, Corsair is a better fit for this story. Clears? Ha! Here's your "clears".

[Findecanor]

Cherry reps had hinted on forums about a new switch ... and this is all we get?
I had been hoping for a MX-variant with rubber dampeners, something that would be as quiet as a Matias Quiet.
Imagine a Cherry MX Blue with rubber dampeners: only audio feedback on actuation, no clack and no rebound noise.
Or maybe a key switch that feels as good as a Cherry MX but has a lower profile.
These qualities are more desired by users than RGB backlighting - you see thread popping up asking for this every now and then, and never once have I seen a thread with a request for RGB backlight.

Also, I am not a fan of light bleeding under the keycaps. Keyboards with this new light-diffusing switch are probably going to have much worse light-bleeding than with the old black switch and the LED higher up.

It could be used as a clever way of recognising FN layers on an already backlit keyboard. Like having the LEDs default white and then turning the specific layer keys RED when the FN key is pressed, blue on FN2 etc.

Sprite on Geekhack gave me an idea for backlighting a 60% board with the Fn key pressed: the groups (1,2,3,4), (5,6,7,8) and (9,0,+,=) would be backlit in contrasting colours so that you could see the different groups for F1-F4, etc. He wrote that we was going to see if he could do it.
There are already 3mm bi-colour LEDs available that fit in Cherry MX switches. They have two legs: the colour depends on the direction of the current. Unfortunately, the colour selection seems to be very limited: Red/Green and Red/Yellow.

Just to get this straight — how many colours can a normal Cherry MX switch achieve with an RGB LED?

As if it was the switch that achieved colour.
LEDs for keyboards are usually laid out in a matrix, like a keyboard matrix but driving instead of sensing. Each LED are lit during 1/(number of rows) time, but it is done so fast that the human eye don't notice.
The length of each pulse defines the brightness (PWM - Pulse Width Modulation), so the number of levels is really defined by the speed of the LED driver.
I know that the AS1130 driver chip supports 256 brightness levels and a 10×11 matrix. Put three of these into a keyboard and you get 256**3 = ~16,7 million colours. I think that many colours is overkill for a keyboard, though... and the chip is not cheap.

I felt sure I'd seen keyboards with RGB LEDs, but since those surely have more than two legs (minimum four I would have thought) how did anyone pull off RGB in a two-leg LED?

Keyboards with Cherry MX and RGB LEDs have had the legs outside the switch and the LED leaning into the switch's LED recess under the keycap.

[webwit]

Ha, if ZF would stop making Cherry switches, that would be good. It would immediately increase the value of my modest Cherry MX collection. Moreover, it would create a vacuum in the marketplace, perhaps just the kind of push and opportunity in these times which leads into innovation such as the Matias switch, or maybe even better.

[Daemon Raccoon]

More likely Kailh clones would be bought in vast numbers to replace the loss of the Cherry MX.

[matt3o]

okay guys, let's try not to act like elitist bitches.

I'm the first in line considering this new christmas light switch totally BS but hell I'm glad they are still working on mechanical switches at all. We are talking about a very small niche of users and of course Cherry and Cooler Master put their money where the greatest traction is: gaming.

Most of us still use a 30 years old IBM keyboard, it's impossible for them to reach such an audience. That being said, compared to a couple of years ago, this last few months have been extremely exciting. Entry level topres, the FC660 family (both MX and Topre), the Filco minila, 70 euros mechanical keyboards from Cooler Master, new switches and a plethora of keyboards from Matias, bluetooth keyboard from KBT, ergodox group buys... I hope 2014 will be the year of the keyboard, maybe with a topre/mx hybrid and more entry level cooler master keyboards and hopefully a full PBT HHKB (possibly wireless).

Maybe the problem I see is that Europe is left behind, with the leading markets being US and Korea. Importing is still a problem, we have to rely on proxies and then import taxes.

The infinite number of layouts probably discourauges the producers, but if there's something we should "fight" about is a better distribution in Europe not the fact that cherry is investing in new switches

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Also, I am not a fan of light bleeding under the keycaps.

Me neither. Matias switches do indeed worsen the situation (since the whole switch lights up under the keycap) plus with Matias switches the LED window is very poorly lit.

I don't know if you could put a light shield around the LED in a normal MX switch, like one of those cones you put on a cat's head to stop it licking itself.

Light bleed between unshielded LEDs is another annoyance of mine, especially when you can't tell if an adjacent LED is actually lit or not as a result.

[webwit]

@matt3o Some good points

[Muirium]

The best place for an LED would be inside the cap itself. A tall doubleshot, something like SA profile, might have enough space to integrate a little LED right above the switch mount, with a metal contact on each side, to be passed through the switch to the PCB. Then all you'd need is for the legend to be a clear material, well centred, and you'd be in business.

So: a new switch design, a new mount, and a new process for making double shots. Hmm…

[Daemon Raccoon]

Sounds like something for HaaTa's miracle switch.

[Muirium]

On the off chance he hasn't already thought of this, he can have it. Miracle switch need every miracle.

[Findecanor]

The best place for an LED would be inside the cap itself. A tall doubleshot, something like SA profile, might have enough space to integrate a little LED right above the switch mount, with a metal contact on each side, to be passed through the switch to the PCB.

I think I have seen pictures of similar contraptions in vintage keyboards. I don't think that sliding contacts are very durable, though.

I think that for a Caps Lock, it looks better to have the LED window in the corner, which would also be away from the switch. Then you could have a LED with a shallow emitter inside a black plastic tube that would almost touch the top of the keycap when the key is pressed. The keycap itself could have interior walls that are tighter around the LED tube.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Not listed here yet:

http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/switches/key/mx.htm

Anyone have the article numbers yet? I'm curious how these will be classified — probably as whole new switches.

[7bit]

No answer yet.

I prefer to have no LEDs at all, because I don't really need them anymore.

[bhtooefr]

Most of us still use a 30 years old IBM keyboard, it's impossible for them to reach such an audience.

It's not impossible.

I went from a 29 year old IBM keyboard to a Matias. Cherry could, if they wanted to, make a switch that IBM fans could prefer.

[7bit]

Sorry, but for 30 years they make the same switch family which is robust and last forever. Whey if not for making it even cheaper thay should change that?


Maybe, one day ZF sells their switch production to GMK or someone else...

[HaaTa]

The best place for an LED would be inside the cap itself. A tall doubleshot, something like SA profile, might have enough space to integrate a little LED right above the switch mount, with a metal contact on each side, to be passed through the switch to the PCB. Then all you'd need is for the legend to be a clear material, well centred, and you'd be in business.

So: a new switch design, a new mount, and a new process for making double shots. Hmm…

Didn't Honeywell already do something like this?






ITW/Cortron had an interesting attempt that is similar to old lamp switches that are seen in industrial switches.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

BTW, what's with the stem now being called a "shift carriage" and the word "Level" appended to all the switch names?

Also, I notice that Cherry aren't always clear what their figures state. Cherry MX blue is often cited as 2.1 oz (60 g) which is the tactile force, not the lower 1.8 oz (50 g) actuation force ... Grr.

I've popped up some stub wiki pages, since clearly no-one else was going to. Not really got time to write about them right now. Also, not sure whether Cherry MX RGB should have its own page (for the concept itself), to avoid the copypasta already present across the clicky pages that all try to explain the same concept as each other.

[Findecanor]

I've popped up some stub wiki pages, since clearly no-one else was going to. Not really got time to write about them right now. Also, not sure whether Cherry MX RGB should have its own page (for the concept itself), to avoid the copypasta already present across the clicky pages that all try to explain the same concept as each other.

I think that the Wiki should have the "RGB switches" in the main Cherry MX page.
The significance of the variation is no bigger than stabilising pins for PCB-mounted switches vs. no stabilising pins, IMHO.

[Broadmonkey]

I agree the RGB should be a subgroup under MX. Granted there is a huge difference in that you can't always interchange it with regular MX switches as it's uncertain whether it supports internal diodes, and so won't work on some Cherry boards. But as it's still named MX, and Cherry assimilates it with regular MX switches on it's own webpage, I think we should treat it as a switch belonging to the current MX family.

A thought, should we treat is as a single switch regardless of stem, so that there is just a single entry? it's just a variation of housing while stem and spring is the same, so there is already info on those parts in the respective wiki entries.

[JBert]

BTW, what's with the stem now being called a "shift carriage" and the word "Level" appended to all the switch names?

Because it's a site for "professional gamers" full of marketing drivel?
Looks like some weasels got a field day, citing "CAD component", "version-specific plastic polymer" and "[the "shift carriage"] produces resistance and tactile feel" even when blacks or reds have no tactile feeling or specific resistance.

[cookie]

So finally Cherry "innovates", and it's about how to turn your keyboard into a xmas tree more effectively? This is like Pirelli inventing a new tire, exactly like before but this time pink and trimmed with decorative led lights.

This comment made my day! Laughed my ass off
A silent MX switch would be more interesting for me, I only need one color and it is called "Blank Keycaps"

[Sir Carfell]

If Corsair would now stop using a custom bottom row that be an instabuy.

[cookie]

Hahaha man I can understand you, all those non standart Rows, Stems, Profiles, Keysizes drove me crazy on MX Boards... you simply can't fit your stuff on every Keyboard

[Broadmonkey]

Okay, so Cherry just posted this: http://www.cherry.de/cid/b2b_keymodules.htm
Looks like it will be available in the four different stem types after all.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Ah, right, for the last character of the product code, they've replaced N and W (no fixing pins/with fixing pins) with A and B (RGB shell version, with no fixing pins/with fixing pins respectively).

That's going to mess up the wiki — we can't write MX1A-L1xx for Red any more, as it's MX1A-L1xN/W for Red, and MX1A-L1xA/B for RGB Red.

[bhtooefr]

Ah, right, for the last character of the product code, they've replaced N and W (no fixing pins/with fixing pins) with A and B (RGB shell version, with no fixing pins/with fixing pins respectively).

That's going to mess up the wiki — we can't write MX1A-L1xx for Red any more, as it's MX1A-L1xN/W for Red, and MX1A-L1xA/B for RGB Red.

Or you treat the RGB ones as variants of the regular ones, which they are.

[7bit]

I don't have the prices yet, but I don't expect them to be more expensive.

However, CherryMX takes preorders for these ...

Code: Select all

MXREDC        |0.65|EUR|MX1A-L1NA (unknown date or price)
MXBLUEC       |0.65|EUR|MX1A-E1NA (unknown date or price)
MXBROWNC      |0.65|EUR|MX1A-G1NA (unknown date or price)
MXBLACKC      |0.65|EUR|MX1A-11NA (unknown date or price)
MXREDC/NW     |0.65|EUR|MX1A-L1NB (unknown date or price)
MXBLUEC/NW    |0.65|EUR|MX1A-E1NB (unknown date or price)
MXBROWNC/NW   |0.65|EUR|MX1A-G1NB (unknown date or price)
MXBLACKC/NW   |0.65|EUR|MX1A-11NB (unknown date or price)

Don't understand the naming trouble!

MX red remains MX red. Just add the clear case variant to the existing wiki articles.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I'll let the Cherry gurus worry about it. I've got enough Alps to keep me busy for a while.

[7bit]

OK, thanks!

The names are the same as the black case variant:

MX1A-L1xy

where
x is N (no LED or wire for these switches, as far as I understand) and
y is A no pin or B with pin

Cherry created similar naming conventions before, where letter positions encode more than just the switch type, but also whether it is PS/2 or USB etc.