Poker II: initial observations

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Feel, yes. Sound, no.

[Muirium]

QWERTim's Filco Majestouch 2 TKL tempts me (I think Ninja is silly, but you can't get non-Ninja with MX Red) but it just seems a waste of money on something that won't have Cherry stabilisers, which feel bad, but are really quiet — I like the non-clangy Pokerr sound. The Code keyboard is sold out in clears and appears to have no ISO option, the WASD V2 is sold out in reds … The Cherry G80-3850 tempts me, but it's not TKL, and the keycap profile is strange. Nothing really grabs my fancy at the moment; I'll probably just go back to my MX brown MJ1 when I decide that the Poker II is a dumb idea for a non-ratpoison UI.

It's a very well made, solid and elegant keyboard though — it's just not for me (even if the firmware didn't suck) as I use the mouse extensively just as I use the keyboard extensively. That said, I've not given up on it. Yet.

Have you tried an HHKB? The function layer is make or break on a 60%. The form factor relies entirely upon it. Every other factory-made 60% out there is no good to me because of the left handed cursor keys or some other major function layer snafu. Only the HHKB gets it right.

Customs are great because by definition you define the function layer(s) yourself via a Teensy. The same applies to any keyboard hooked up via Soarer's converter or another of its ilk. That's what I'm really looking forward to with my Kishsaver, for instance.

I put my HHKB training wheels on while I was using my XT, as it even has a key (Scroll Lock!) in the HHKB's genius Fn key's place. But you only get the space saving with a physically smaller keyboard, of course. Which was step 2 in my master plan.

As for TKLs, I'd grab a Ducky and put some Round 5s or PBT DSA on it. Or if you're not into sphericals, there is that dye sub Premier model of theirs too. They're good and solid too, and I love the Cherry stabs on my Shine 3. This from a spring buckler with loud as hell Costar-style ones on all his IBMs!

[Daniel Beardsmore]

In part, it depends on usage pattern.

If you use the mouse predominantly, you won't miss the keys that were removed. People who click to move the caret, for example, and who use toolbars and menus with the mouse. I asked someone non-technical the other day whether he uses the arrow keys, and he doesn't. Most people still don't know what the tab key does, although that is still there, as is the caps lock key for typing capitals …

If you use the keyboard predominantly, you won't be affected, as you will be able to keep both hands on the keyboard at all times. For example, vim users get all the navigation and control they need solely from the keyboard.

If you use both the mouse and keyboard extensively, that's where you have problems. The Poker II won't let me use the mouse and press the F keys to switch mode in Inkscape. I need one hand for Fn, one hand for 1, and one hand for the mouse. (Considering that, to me, soldering seems virtually impossible without three hands, I have to wonder what the tradeoffs would be if humans had the correct (i.e. 4) number of arms.)

I can convert LWin to Fn, but then I lose the Windows key that I use extensively, especially on RDP into Server 2012 (where I can't really use the hot corner in a windowed RDP session inside a tabbed RDP manager). I use most keys on the keyboard, and I use the mouse extensively. The Minila is a bit expensive to want to risk its incorrect stagger, but it does offer left and right Fn keys. However, right Fn on the Minila is where I hit space (on the far right), so I'd only have a left Fn. It's the most promising idea so far.

If you're a dedicated keyboard user (e.g. text mode Linux), the Poker II is a good keyboard. My complaints are not against the Poker, but rather the idea of requiring three hands to use a computer that 60%-style keyboards create. HHKB is worse, as it has gaps where there are keys missing. I have enough trouble with the Poker, where there are no unused gaps and I'm still out of keys (no room for left Fn for example).

[matt3o]

out of curiosity, have you updated the keyboard firmware? is it any better?

also, have you evaluated the leopold 660C or M? it doesn't solve the F-row issue you have though.

[Muirium]

I use keyboard shortcuts extensively, but navigate the menus themselves only occasionally by keyboard. One trick I do need, though, is Ctrl+F8 to navigate the system menus, specifically to activate my Bluetooth mouse when it's wandered off to another computer! That would be a three key special on my 60%, so I macroed it instead. Macros are the deviant hacks I like so much to fix what my layers can't do with elegance. Ctrl+8 >> Ctrl+Fn+8. Done. And no doubt unseemly!

[Daniel Beardsmore]

out of curiosity, have you updated the keyboard firmware? is it any better?

There's only one "bug" in mine: the Pn layer ignores modifiers (whether it's a bug depends on what was actually intended). Doesn't bother me, and certainly not enough to risk all the problems there seem to be in other firmware versions.

And there's another thing: it's one thing replacing LWin with Fn, but there's no left Pn key. You would need to redesign the firmware from scratch to make it truly programmable (i.e. scrap this Pn nonsense), although that's not impossible: you would just need the hardware specifications.

[matt3o]

yeah I had a look at it, it would be technically feasible, but there's surely a lot of work. You can find the toolchain to compile for the Nuvoton nuc122, but without the original source code it would be a hell of a job to rebuild the whole firmware.

[JBert]

I modded a Soarer converter into my Poker (version 1) and connected the Fn key straight to the Teensy. That way I can map anything I want.

I wonder if you could do it with the Poker II. It does need to support PS/2 using an adaptor, and the Pn/Fn key need to be on a row which won't break too many other keys if you disconnect those two keys.

[Muirium]

Nice trick. How well did you pull it off? Can you tell the Poker's modified from the outside?

[matt3o]

I'm planning on taking a poker 2 sooner or later, I'll give it a shot. well... unless I can reverse-eng the firmware.

[JBert]

Nice trick. How well did you pull it off? Can you tell the Poker's modified from the outside?

Not at all, except that sometimes the keyboard starts flipping when you plug it in. I removed a few capacitors which I thought were only used for buffering and soldered the leads to the converter on their pads. Once the keyboard is connected it's fine, but when connecting the power surge seems to throw off the firmware + converter combination, making it send endless streams of "9" characters. In that case you need to plug it out and in again until its stabilized.

I would take pictures, except that it's bit of a pain to get it together again. The Poker case has a few ridges at the bottom, and while a Teensy does fit in it, I only could get it together by using some extra long wires, lower the PCB onto the case and then tape the Teensy into the case. All my other attempts would squeeze the Teensy between case and PCB. Maybe removing those ridges alltogether would work better. I'll try to document it when I get my GH60 PCB.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

D'oh!

There is no Pn layer bug.

I was trying out bindings to see what could actually be set, and I was clearing down unwanted bindings by setting them to empty. I was trying to test Shift+Pn, Ctrl+Pn etc and these are not programmable, as all you do is end up programming the modifier keys.

THAT is why my Pn layer was "broken".

The problem is that, as there is no programming software, I assumed that the Pn layer was all blank by default — I assumed that it was falling back to the normal layer, instead of factory defaulting to a complete duplicate of the regular layer. I did notice that when I reset a key to blank, it lost the fallback, but I'd forgotten what I'd programmed, and with what, but I forgot that I'd done that to the modifiers, deliberately or unintentionally (I am not sure).

It just occurred to me last night that this is why Pn mode didn't do what everyone else's keyboards were doing, even those people with older keyboards than mine.

D'oh.

However you still have to keep pressing Fn+RShift to enable that mode: it doesn't remember which mode you left it in after power is lost and reapplied.

[guillaume kuster]

Nice to have you back with us.

[Spearman]

HJKL?

It's a unix thing; I think it started with vi, the ancestor of the text editor vim. It's pretty popular among devlopers, so lots of times you will find websites have vim navigation bindings (at least J down K up, such as twitter, duckduckgo, facebook).

I have yet to see a keyboard with this layout, though...but there might be one out there.

[Muirium]

Bill Joy did it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_keys#HJKL_keys

And here's the keyboard responsible:



Looks like a Unix hacker's dream machine!

[matt3o]

I want a knob on my keyboard!

[Spearman]

Are those caps similar to Honey spherical?

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Nice to have you back with us.

Where did I go?

[guillaume kuster]

to the land of buggy keyboards

[Muirium]

Are those caps similar to Honey spherical?

Yup. That was the style of the time. (1970s and early 1980s.)

[Daniel Beardsmore]

to the land of buggy keyboards ;)

Which platform for the Land of Well-Documented Products? 7⅔? (Notice to passengers: This is a Microsoft-Free Zone.)

Traction: Class 455.

[Ggr8]

Still personally loving my Poker II.

Though thinking about 660c or HHKB Pro 2 Type-S. Darn upgraditis.

(And I have a realforce full size coming for when I feel that sort of way).