WASD v2 vs Filco, both TKL

[drrtyrokka]

the other two ones do not ring.

[drrtyrokka]

No wait.... all of them ring. now i noticed with my headphones on. But the quiet pro is some kind of the less noisy.

[drrtyrokka]

I think the ringing isnt really caused by the switches or type directly. It sounds like the switches make the plate swing and this causes the sound, not the switches themselves. Because the sound doesnt come distinctly from one area of the keyboard, just all keys bring it to ring...

[Muirium]

Perceptive! The switches are the source, but the plate is what actually rings. It's like hitting a bell with a hammer. The hammer is the source, but try telling the bell…

All right, time to try a good quiet Topre. In fact, here's a recording I made of an HHKB:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ddsmshyc74ozsvz/HHKB.m4a

The black keyboard in this lineup…


It has a plastic plate. In theory, that ringing should be history!

Oh, and they are not cheap:

http://www.elitekeyboards.com/products. ... d=pdkb400w

[drrtyrokka]

Yea! Except the birds, i just hear clicks and no rings )))
I also had a ZOWIE Celeritas a few months ago, it had red switches and didn't ring at all....but i can't get why...
perhaps there was no steel plate in it like here.

[rindorbrot]

The Celeritas has a plate, too.

From my experience all plate
mounted keyboards I have used so far have these ringing sounds. Although some more, others less.
But for me lubing the switches gets rid of that. It is quite some effort on a stock plate mounted board though.

[Muirium]

Indeed. Lubing involves opening up the switches. And that involves desoldering them. Pretty tall order, unless you're into it. Although lubed switches are very nice to type on, I'm not sure why lubing would reduce the sound. The energy all comes from the spring

Drrtyrokka, I think you're sensitive to the sounds that plate mounted switches make. Here's another test: my Apple Extended II. It has nice damped switches in it, and a metal plate. I reckon you'll hear a ringing:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4rwg5lzuz245z ... d%20II.m4a

It's certainly quieter than the crazy pingy original Macintosh keyboard that I got the same day (the cute one on the left above):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/16mx6cqq3dobg4c/M0110.m4a

One final test, a Topre Realforce. This keyboard has the same switches as the HHKB, but mounted in a metal plate:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mv8f7g7fete8p ... lforce.m4a

Topre is a very nice switch to type on, as well as listen to.

[drrtyrokka]

my filco is exactly acting and sounding like this one here, just to show again. for me its a bit too loud... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N54eusgrtoM

[drrtyrokka]

the first two ones are horrible.. but i cant hear a ping with the topre sample... interesting...

[Muirium]

I foresee a Topre in your future! Better get saving…

[drrtyrokka]

with german iso layout? i dont think i will get any...
I got the Bachelor of Engineering degree in electronics, soldering or lubing shouldn't be a problem for me...
I just didn't want to open the keyboard because I still have warranty on my filco...

Besides, I cant get a topre, my groupby round5 caps, i just like them so much. Have to stay with that filco

[Muirium]

ISO-DE tenkeyless Topre right here:

http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard/germ ... yboard.asp

They also carry full size. The one thing Keyboard Co. doesn't do is the nice white ones that I prefer the look of. Ho hum.

Matt3o's working on adapters to fit MX caps on these. When both worlds collide — the best switch and the best caps — things will get very interesting!

[drrtyrokka]

WOW! Crazy! Ok this really sounds cool. Thank you for your help all the hours today
But for 100 € I still have to order the ducky g2pro, and if it rings, i will open it and lube it...
and if matt3o gets the adapter done, i have to sell it
(just realized, i bought the 1.25 modifier set in round5, so it won't fit with the adapter either )

Enough asking for today, gotta wake up at 6am for work. Perhaps tomorrow teraset will respond and i will know more.
Good night friend, thanks again!

[Muirium]

You're welcome.

Good point about the Realforce's mods. Fortunately for me I ordered a TENKLESS kit, which has a ton of mods in various sizes. But the space bar is still a problem. The HHKB's is 6 units, and the Realforce's looks 6 units too. Round 5 doesn't carry those. Bugger!

[rindorbrot]

I'm not sure why lubing would reduce the sound. The energy all comes from the spring

That is why with lubing the switch I also mean to oil the springs, not only greasing the sliders.

[drrtyrokka]

And how do I do that? Isn't there a way to open the switch without desoldering them?

[rindorbrot]

Not on a stock plate mounted keyboard, no.
On a PCB mounted one it would be no problem.

[drrtyrokka]

And you are shure, this will kill my ping? I'm a bit concerned about how lubing the spring would affect the ping, because the metal plate is swinging and this causes the ping I think. If lubed or not, the switch/spring will always make the plate swinging I guess...
Did you had the same problem as I have with a full pinging keyboard and really cured this with lubing the springs?

[Broadmonkey]

Did anyone say ping?
deskthority.net/wiki/Ping

[drrtyrokka]

i dont know if the article referst to the same problem i am talking about. it really doesnt sound / feel like the switch spring is ringing. Its more the plate that is ringing... Is this issue meant in the article you linked??

[Muirium]

I think it may be exactly on topic. The plate transmits the sound, but the actual ringing is in all those switch springs. Now I get it. You know the effect if you've ever listened to the wooden body of a piano or guitar: solid materials conduct sound differently to air, bamboozling your ears about its true source.

In that case, oiling the springs could well help. I imagine you want to tamper with their natural resonance.

A very effective trick from the world of IBM is the floss mod:

http://deskthority.net/wiki/Dental_floss_mod

But I suspect it doesn't work in MX. Buckling spring's do what their name suggests: they bend to one side, but keep their length the same. While MX springs are held straight inside a plastic tube and must compress directly. Floss would surely get mashed in there.

[drrtyrokka]

Ok thanks guys, i will try this then, if the ducky board has the same issue.
I just wanted to make sure this problem isnt just filco related, but affects all metal plated keyboards.
I still can't understand, why in the first video the guy is showing only one single key ringing and mine is like the second video I posted. (the keyboards are both filco metal plated...)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNND9kaWP6s ( here only the 's' key rings)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N54eusgrtoM (thats like mine)

[Muirium]

Yeah, it's really quite weird. Switches are mechanical items (naturally) and so they do vary a bit, so some springs will ring louder than others. But that second video sounds as pingy as an IBM Model F when you drop it on a table! My Ducky doesn't sound like that at all.

[Broadmonkey]

The second video sound like the screws is tightened too tight or something, like there is too much tension (if that makes sense).
I don't think in any way it's a general problem in all plate mounted boards, if it was, it would still be a heated debate.
(more on the topic: http://www.overclock.net/t/1235745/the- ... filco-ping )

[drrtyrokka]

Yes and I got the second example and this keyboard is like that since unboxing...
Perhaps I should send it back then, I still got 1 week to refund. I just thought mechanical keyboards are like that and admitted it. I don't know if it is a mx brown issue with the filco's and if i should order a new one or wait for the ducky g2pro (or i could order a ducky zero if there will be no problem with the round5 keycaps, because of the backlighting...)
Give me advice... i am relly confused by now and I always thought filco's are the BEST known mechanical keyboards with mx switches I can get...)

[Muirium]

If you can get a refund, I'd say go for it while you still can. You've heard what my keyboards sound like. Springs do ping, and plates can reverberate with it. But you might well have a lemon. It's all about how much of it there is. The pingy Filco video shows far too much.

I have to put my Ducky up to my ear to hear a ringing anything like that. In practice, it sounds like this:

[JBert]

Get a model F. At least you know it's supposed to ring, then use your MX keyboard if you got used to the sound.

It's either that, or going back to rubber dome (or even going to Topre's high-end rubber dome, as mentioned before). And even those make sounds.

[Muirium]

Some of my favourite keyboards are Model Fs! So I'm obviously not sensitive to this. I do love a good Topre, though. They're at opposite ends of the feel spectrum as well as sound.

[drrtyrokka]

Ok thank you, i will order a ducky now and test it. If its the same i will keep the filco because I like everything on here despite the ping, and i think i will get used to it. if the ducky is really much more quiet, i will send the filco back.
Thanks for your support on this crazy journey through pings and clacks
I am also a musician and my ears are really really good (they have to be), perhaps I'm just too curious

[drrtyrokka]

I finally got my Ducky G2Pro and I have to say, it is FANTASTIC!!

Actually the feel of the switches is so much better than with my filco, the tactile bump is much more accurate and the keys arent that loose. (Though it's the same switch, interesting!)
There is a noise when I type, but itsn't really a ring, it sounds more like natural sounds for springs. Much more quite, not that annoying and shorter sound, I like it!

I recognized the difference between the stabilizers now. Yea, the cherry stabilizers are more quiet (and it's ok for me because it is my office board) but I dont really like the mushy feel. Now I know, that I prefer costar stabilizers, perhaps I will try this here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6hPoe3srcw
But its not really a big problem, i'm really satisfied with the board I got.

I recently send the filco back and ordered a Ducky Zero 2108, hope this board is build as good as the G2.
Dont know if there is a big difference in build quality betweeen the Shine III and the Zero (if you dont bother backlighting, detetchable cable etc.). Hope not