Topre switch / Cherry MX compatible

matt3o · 12 Apr 2014, 08:42

if the guy tried my same prototype, that's not a keyboard that should be reviewed to the public.

Muirium · 12 Apr 2014, 10:23

And that's why a prototype is a prototype!

From Matt's link:

YuukiHaruto wrote:Problems : There are a couple of problems, either it is because MX keys have longer key travel than topre keys OR CM has issues with their key travel. The reason for that is that when you use a key remover to try and pry a key out the keycap is pushed to the very bottom making it highly impossible to remove keycaps if at all.
I see the above problem as spoiling the point of this keyboard because this keyboard is about being the FIRST customizable topre (in terms of keycaps) but it takes so much effort to remove them.

My proto NovaTouch definitely does NOT have this problem. I find swapping around caps just as easy as can be. So perhaps Yuuki has an earlier version?

When is a NovaTouch not a NovaTouch? When it's a prototype! We're going through the looking glass, people…

matt3o · 12 Apr 2014, 10:56

to YuukiHaruto defense I can say that CM explicitly asked him to review that sample. Which is a little like...

Muirium · 12 Apr 2014, 11:23

Maybe they're just new at this. Or perhaps more virally cunning than I can imagine? Hmm…

For everyone reading along: don't worry, this is what development looks like.

Hypersphere · 12 Apr 2014, 23:18

matt3o wrote:to YuukiHaruto defense I can say that CM explicitly asked him to review that sample. Which is a little like...

Spoiler:

Love the imagery! Looks like development work can be worse than shooting oneself in the foot!

tmacg55 · 13 Apr 2014, 13:23

Here is some new footage that I just find on the youtubez

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjIH4dKNg2s

scottc · 13 Apr 2014, 14:18

Wow, I had to close that video. The guy doesn't seem to have any idea what he's talking about. It's like he thinks that CM Storm created Topre...

Muirium · 13 Apr 2014, 14:26

Had a brief scrub of it (the crowd's racket makes it unlistenable to me) and the most interesting thing about it is the USB cable…

(They're fixing that.)

RaleghDirat · 13 Apr 2014, 14:30

You mean fixing literally?

Muirium · 13 Apr 2014, 15:10

Don't know! But I hope not. I like detachable cables much better. The current one is actually quite nice, but look at the way it turns when plugged into the keyboard. I think they moved the socket during development but didn't alter the cable to match. Feedback sent and received!

RaleghDirat · 13 Apr 2014, 15:30

I also prefer a detachable cable.
This angled one is nice for instance if using a laptop it does not get in the way.
I got a 90 degrees adapter to do this with the hhkb / laptop.

Hypersphere · 13 Apr 2014, 16:13

Muirium wrote:Don't know! But I hope not. I like detachable cables much better. The current one is actually quite nice, but look at the way it turns when plugged into the keyboard. I think they moved the socket during development but didn't alter the cable to match. Feedback sent and received!

I have a CM QFR with greens. One of the worst things about it is the USB connector: not enough room in the case cutout; very difficult to attach and detach. I prefer a detachable cable, but it needs to be easy on/ easy off. Plus, I hope they are continuing to go ahead with a micro USB rather than a mini USB; better for longevity.

vinzbe · 13 Apr 2014, 16:57

Why stop at micro USB? The Trigger Z model introduced a full size USB. So I'm sure they could do it again.

Muirium · 13 Apr 2014, 17:17

Isn't micro USB tougher than either variant (type A and B) of full size? USB is a silly standard that's improved over time. Still no Lightning, though. Physical polarity? Ha!

Anyway, pulling in and out the micro USB plug here just now: it seems very easy. The only problem (as seen in the video I was talking about) is where the cable heads straight off to. They're looking into it. Because a unidirectional connector means you can't flip the cable, it only goes one way.

Hypersphere · 13 Apr 2014, 17:55

Muirium wrote:Isn't micro USB tougher than either variant (type A and B) of full size? USB is a silly standard that's improved over time. Still no Lightning, though. Physical polarity? Ha!

Anyway, pulling in and out the micro USB plug here just now: it seems very easy. The only problem (as seen in the video I was talking about) is where the cable heads straight off to. They're looking into it. Because a unidirectional connector means you can't flip the cable, it only goes one way.

They should go for connectors with C2 symmetry, like some car keys!

Muirium · 13 Apr 2014, 17:58

There were ever car keys without that? Yikes!

YuukiHaruto · 13 Apr 2014, 18:52

matt3o wrote:if the guy tried my same prototype, that's not a keyboard that should be reviewed to the public.

I did what I was asked to do. My product manager asked if I wanted to review the Novatouch, I said yes. Anything wrong about that?

Muirium wrote:And that's why a prototype is a prototype!

From Matt's link:

YuukiHaruto wrote:Problems : There are a couple of problems, either it is because MX keys have longer key travel than topre keys OR CM has issues with their key travel. The reason for that is that when you use a key remover to try and pry a key out the keycap is pushed to the very bottom making it highly impossible to remove keycaps if at all.
I see the above problem as spoiling the point of this keyboard because this keyboard is about being the FIRST customizable topre (in terms of keycaps) but it takes so much effort to remove them.
My proto NovaTouch definitely does NOT have this problem. I find swapping around caps just as easy as can be. So perhaps Yuuki has an earlier version?

When is a NovaTouch not a NovaTouch? When it's a prototype! We're going through the looking glass, people…

That's why I said with the included keycap remover. When the production version reaches me I'll review it again fair and square.

It's true I review everything CM for CM Singapore but I'm being a unbiased reviewer. Unlike *cough* you know who I'm talking about.

matt3o · 13 Apr 2014, 18:55

YuukiHaruto wrote:
matt3o wrote:if the guy tried my same prototype, that's not a keyboard that should be reviewed to the public.
I did what I was asked to do. My product manager asked if I wanted to review the Novatouch, I said yes. Anything wrong about that?

I'm not blaming you. I'm blaming CM. Didn't you see the message below (with the reverse gun?).

YuukiHaruto · 13 Apr 2014, 18:58

matt3o wrote:
YuukiHaruto wrote:
matt3o wrote:if the guy tried my same prototype, that's not a keyboard that should be reviewed to the public.
I did what I was asked to do. My product manager asked if I wanted to review the Novatouch, I said yes. Anything wrong about that?
I'm not blaming you. I'm blaming CM. Didn't you see the message below (with the reverse gun?).

Sorry if I came off as blaming you but, ah well. I just hope the production will get out soon as I really like ti to bits

martinot · 14 Apr 2014, 13:05

Muirium wrote:Isn't micro USB tougher than either variant (type A and B) of full size? USB is a silly standard that's improved over time. Still no Lightning, though. Physical polarity? Ha!.

Future hope:
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/usb-ty ... 26433.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/revers ... 25292.html

br,
martin

whitecitadel · 14 Apr 2014, 13:44

Yes USB 3.1 will be full reversible, lighting connector showed the way that while you have a 50% chance of plugging a directional connector in right, on average the general public (myself included) get it wrong 95% of the time...

Muirium · 14 Apr 2014, 13:47

Looking forward to its ubiquity… in 2020 or so.

matt3o · 14 Apr 2014, 14:16

whitecitadel wrote:Yes USB 3.1 will be full reversible, lighting connector showed the way that while you have a 50% chance of plugging a directional connector in right, on average the general public (myself included) get it wrong 95% of the time...

any 2-sided connector needs 3 attempts to be successfully plugged. #science

YuukiHaruto · 14 Apr 2014, 16:03

Is it weird that I get it right every single time

Hypersphere · 14 Apr 2014, 17:35

matt3o wrote:
whitecitadel wrote:Yes USB 3.1 will be full reversible, lighting connector showed the way that while you have a 50% chance of plugging a directional connector in right, on average the general public (myself included) get it wrong 95% of the time...
any 2-sided connector needs 3 attempts to be successfully plugged. #science

Yes. Looking forward to a connector with C2 symmetry.

luckynet2 · 15 Apr 2014, 12:24

would it be feasible to make a silent version?? or at least sell landing pads to mod zee keyboards??

YuukiHaruto · 15 Apr 2014, 12:42

luckynet2 wrote:would it be feasible to make a silent version?? or at least sell landing pads to mod zee keyboards??

It doesn't have much thock but more clack. So yes the same pads that the Type-S uses would be nice

But PFU won't be exactly happy would they.

Monkay · 15 Apr 2014, 16:29

Why is it that Topre can be more clacky and less Thocky? I would love more thock.

Muirium · 15 Apr 2014, 16:38

Because these aren't finished yet! More thock is something they heard from our feedback. And I reckon we'll get it.

Monkay · 15 Apr 2014, 17:21

I know that the Novatouch is not finished yet and that it is really annoying that people start to judge the keyboard on the few information they have although it is not finished.
But my question was also more general: How is it that some Topre keyboards have more thock and othes less thock (I heard comparisons of Realforce and HHKB and stuff)?

Also, thank you for providing the "more thock"-feedback to Coolermaster because that is a big Topre part (at least for me). And that is why I am interested how you can achieve that Thock-sound. So maybe we can do it with a decent case or something else.