The Oracle Answers

[ajx]

Does anyone know if KBT/Vortex stop selling KBT Pure?
Not Pro, it seems to be out of stock anywhere.

[Broadmonkey]

I think they have gone out of production, just like the original poker.

[Muirium]

Yeah, the little guys typically produce things in batches. One out, one in.

[btcorrad]

Hello, O Oracle and peers:

I am awaiting a switch tester for verification but I suspect I'll either want something like Red, Brown, or Blue MX switches.

The Keyboard I seek MUST have two (2) USB port hub/passthrough.
I would prefer a width of less than 18 inches (TKL would be great but, not many out there with the USB ports)
I'm looking for reliability and would like to spend less than $150USD, ideally less than $130.

Thank you for your time.

[Muirium]

The hub requirement is an interesting one. I used to consider those essential, too, but the choice of keyboards soon steered me away from it.

I can think of one compact board that fulfils your needs, but one: the price.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Less than 18ʺ? A Matias Quiet Pro is 18.11ʺ (while my Filco MJ1 105 is ca. 16ʺ wide!) while the mini models are only 13.27ʺ across, and both types come with an integrated three-port hub. Matias give the prices as US$149.95 and US$129.95 respectively.

By all accounts you'll prefer the HHKB layout, and I suspect you'll prefer the switches¹, but yes you do have to pay a little extra for that privilege!

(Depends if you're one of those people who prefer stiffer Topres — I couldn't say, I have a variable weight Realforce and in my ignorance I think it's fine!)

[Muirium]

Indeed, the little Mattias is worth a look, too. Although neither our suggestions are MX. Ironically, built in hubs in a small chassis are something you find much more easily elsewhere.

[Hypersphere]

Hello, O Oracle and peers:

I am awaiting a switch tester for verification but I suspect I'll either want something like Red, Brown, or Blue MX switches.

The Keyboard I seek MUST have two (2) USB port hub/passthrough.
I would prefer a width of less than 18 inches (TKL would be great but, not many out there with the USB ports)
I'm looking for reliability and would like to spend less than $150USD, ideally less than $130.

Thank you for your time.

Well, my IBM XT keyboard was built in 1984 and still going strong. I would give it an A+ for reliability. And at 17 and 7/8 inches wide, it just makes the less than 18 inch criterion. However, it has no USB ports (but probably room in the case to install them). The capacitive buckling spring switches are the best I have ever tried by far -- even better than the membrane buckling springs in my Model M, certainly better than any Cherry mx switch I have ever tried (blue, brown, black, green, red), and better than Matias tactile or Topre 45g (although I do like Topre, but in a different way). I paid $51 for it on eBay.

[Pizarro]

O Oracle,

While ordering parts for my first mechanical keyboard (an ergodox), I appear to have stumbled accross the QWER8 (qwerkeys switch tester) for sale.

Looking at the price, I must be delieious with fevour.... Can I be saved or should I put my affiars in order?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Qwerkeys-QWER ... 1e8a763d89

They are trying to sell this for £89. And for £15 extra, you can get a 3 year waranty against mechanical failure... WTF!
(no, I am not considering purchasing this)

[scottc]

QWERkeys sell this switch tester for a fraction of that price.

[Muirium]

I'm pretty sure that whole site is losing out by not calling itself ULTRA RARE LIKE NEW eBay HURRY LAST EVER CHANCE! Oh, and using a red background.

[mr_a500]

I thought you were talking about this site.

NOS! NEVER USED! Deskthority SUPER RARE Mechanical Keyboard Club L@@K!!!

[Muirium]

Already on my watchlist!

[hsu]

Oh wise Muirium,
did you give your opinion on the different RF Topre weight options somewhere?
For I live far in the South of this planet, a place where no keyboard could ever be returned from, only arrive.
A wise man once recommendeth the variable weighting version,
then thousands came and said 55g was all the rage.

I'd love to know your personal preferences.

(I mostly code and chat, and could/would swap to another keyboard for serious gaming. Although for a casual online gaming I wouldn't change keyboards.)

(Current fav keyboard: Browns)

Also interested in a Red Poker in the future.

[Muirium]

Ah, he who is even farther from the Land of the Realforce than I. A worthy question! We last spoke of it here:

http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/the ... ml#p155385

If it is the lightness in switches that so speaks to you, like the hummingbird ever swift on its wing, then 55g Topre is unlikely to complete you. I would consider uniform 45g or ergonomic. Depending on your discipline at home row.



Your heart will know. Meditate, and ask it.

[hsu]

Thanks.

What is this Homer Ow Discipline you speak about?
Something like "If I use the weak fingers for typing, variable will be helpful" ?

[Muirium]

People either love or hate variable weighting. If you type with your hands based on home row (as you're meant to) it's a nice bit of assistance, that gives your smaller fingers a break. But if you move your hands around the board (especially for gaming) then you'll probably find it annoying. It's certainly different to every other board you have likely used.

Topre is unique in giving you the choice. You may turn it down and go regular 45g, of course, but ergo weighting is something I would give consideration. It worked well for me when I tried 002's touring Realforce, and my discipline is far from perfect!

[JotaCe]

Oh mighty Oracle! You who are so wise in the ways of science and mechanical keyboards, help this poor disciple with his initiation on the glorious mechanical faith!

I want a keyboard for everyday use (home & work), meaning I want something small (TKL or smaller) since I'll be carrying it everyday. I work with SAP (mainly as a developer) and I use the F keys, sometimes with modifiers, quite a lot during the day. Despite this, I don't mind to try a 60% keyboard as long as I can use the F keys equivalent with my left hand. If I can map/program/whatever some combinations like Shift + F1, Ctrl + F3 or Shift + Control + F5 to a single key + modifier it would be great. Also, Fn + Arrows for Home/End/PgUp/PgDwn is something that I miss from my OsX days and that I really appreciate having.
In terms of switches, I'm looking at Cherry MX, probably Red or Brown but I already ordered a tester kit so that will be decided later.
Regarding layout, I have used ISO (either PT or ES) my entire life although I don't mind to switch to either ANSI or ISO-UK as long as the accentuation (áàãç etc.) is easy to use (Win 7 at work and Win 8.1 at home).
Backlighting is something that I do not require, neither is wireless or extra usb ports.
Finally, a good keycap compatibility is nice to have (seeing all these group-buys made me think that probably sometime in the future I'll want to replace the keycaps and I've already ordered a couple of novelty ones from ivan).

So please Oracle, share your infinite wisdom with your humble follower!

[Muirium]

<Looks around, puts down broom, and cautiously approaches the visitor.>

The Mighty Oracle isn't here, so you'll have to put up with some advice from his underling.

Anyway, sounds to me like programmability is what you really seek to explore. All the better to master it before you have committed to a keyboard. I hear that the best software remapping and macro powers, when on Windows, are summoned by the spells contained within the magic tome they call "AutoHotKey".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AutoHotkey
http://www.autohotkey.com/

As a dedicated monk, I know not of windows, only doors, so all I can offer is the general direction. But I expect you shall better learn what you need in hardware once you have explored the wisdom inherent in software.

[JotaCe]

Thanks for the quick reply!
Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, I see the programability as a way to use a keyboard without a dedicated F-row (like the Poker or HHKB). With a "regular" TKL, I have no need for it.
But this week I'll give it a try with this magic tome, at least to check the impact on my standard workflow.

[Muirium]

That's the spirit! You can simulate having a 60% with any larger keyboard, while learning to use the same remapping tools you would rely on in earnest should you go for a Poker or the like.

Wax on, wax off, my friend…

[stoner_cough]

Not about picking out a keyboard, but w/e, I don't want to make a whole new topic for this.

Is it possible to use a switch without pins on a PCB? I wanted to get one of 7bits locking mx switches for the Fn key on the Ergodox I'm making soon, before I order everything. Unfourtunately, he only has ones made for plate mounts, and not PCB mounts.

[Muirium]

Yes, I have done it myself. The legs are enough when soldered well.

Good luck actually getting any MXLOCKs out of him! He still has to order a box, I think.

[JotaCe]

That's the spirit! You can simulate having a 60% with any larger keyboard, while learning to use the same remapping tools you would rely on in earnest should you go for a Poker or the like.

Wax on, wax off, my friend…

After getting my Cherry MX sampler, now I know that I want something in Cherry red flavour (based on the descriptions, I was inclined to the browns, until I tried them...).
While doing research on the Poker and the likes of it, I stumbled upon the Leopold FC660M and the KBT Pure Pro. The Leopold looks nicer but has ANSI layout (I'd rather have ISO) and since I have to import it from qtan or other sources from outside the EU, the price ends up higher than the KBT. Whilst not looking as nice, the KBT is plate mounted, has dedicated arrow keys and has the useful Pn layer. This week I tried some simple combinations with AutoHotKey, but having that possibility directly on the keyboard is better. Plus I can get it from within the EU and with ISO-UK layout
Is there any other model (60%, dedicated arrow keys, ISO-UK, plate mounted) that I should be aware of or is the KBT Pure Pro the best choice for my needs?

[Muirium]

I don't know much about the Pure Pro, to be honest. This is the layout?



Technically it's not a 60%, as it has too many keys, so more like "70%". I'm not a fan of layouts between 60% and TKL, because they cram in extra keys to the 60% block and have to shrink other ones to make them fit. Watch out for the right Shift key in particular, which is so often sacrificed.

Looking at that layout makes me think of this: Filco's Minila.



You can get this one in Europe, in ISO, too; but it's a Filco, everyone says its very well made, and the Bluetooth version is very attractive if that's your thing. Both Minila and Pure Pro suffer from poor compatibility with caps group buys (neither layout uses standard staggering or a common size of space bar and several other keys) so you are kind of stuck with the caps they come with.

But yeah, you're just hearing me grumble about "impure" non-60% compact keyboards! Weigh your own ideals over mine.

[JotaCe]

Yes, it's the one on the 1st pic.
I ended up ordering it since I like the Fn layer a lot more than the one on the Filco and the extra Pn layer is a nice bonus.
To be honest, the only key which I might find hard to adapt is the right shift (again, the Pure has a better location than the Filco), but I usually end up using it with my pinky and hitting it on the rightmost side of the key (the same position as in the Pure Pro layout).
Caps compatibility may be an issue, but I don't intend on replacing the full set anytime soon.
Of course as soon as it arrives I'll post pictures here on the forum!

Thanks for your help

[hwood34]

In my search for more keyboards, I have come across one with cream tee mount alps. What are these like?

[Muirium]

All that I know about them:

http://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_vintage_tee_mount

Apparently they are the ancestor of the more familiar Alps switches. Probably worth a try.

[hwood34]

Yeah, that was all I could find too

[hwood34]

edit: nvm