Leopold FC 660C

[Hypersphere]

Hey thanks for the pictures and review, and I really like the Leopold fc660c the layout is really nice, and the compact tenkeyless design is what I have been wanting, now I do have a cooler master rapid with cherry mx blues which is a tenkeyless board. This keyboard is great for 80 usd, but I have been waiting to have the money to try new switch and or switches...would you say this keyboard is a definitely recommendation from you or more of to each his own? Because next week is when I will have the money to afford this for an xmas gift to myself. So, get back to me if you don't mind I would really appreciate the feedback and advice on this board.

For me, the FC660C was close, but not quite there. The HHKB Pro 2 won the contest for me because of its elegant design and legible dye-sub PBT keycaps. Overall, I still prefer the look and feel of the IBM SSK, but for now I am enjoying the smaller form factor of the HHKB Pro 2.

[boingo]

Firstly - hello everyone. This is my first post to DeskThority and I'm glad to be here. Secondly - I promise this post is on-topic, bare with me or feel free to skip (won't hurt my feelings).

On my primary machine at home I've been using a dasKB mac (blue switches) and I love it.

For my KVM at home (server, telework machine etc) I've been using a CM TKL with blue switches and I really don't care for it.

Work recently took my oldish dell KB away for security reasons (long story) and replaced it with a KB I really can't stand. So, I've started the search for a perfect KB to use at work. At home I can happily bang away at my keyboard without bothering anyone (my BF has grown immune to it). But at work I have plenty of coworkers I need to keep in mind, so I can't just pick up another KB with blue switches. I started looking into the brown switches and even placed an order for the CM TKL with browns but it was backordered and I ended up canceling. But what to get? Here was my wishlist:

• 1 Must be quiet enough that my coworkers don't wish me dead.
  
  2 Must be TKL or smaller in order to keep my mouse in a usable spot and fit nicely.
  
  3 A price I wouldn't be embarrassed to tell a coworker or friend I paid.
  
  4 Must be something I can buy (no out of stock, out of production or requiring proxy buying from another country)

Before long I found the Happy Hacking KB and fell in love with the idea of the compact FN Layer arrangment. I'm a software engineer and the idea of doing more without my hands leaving the home position is very apealing. This KB easily met items 1, 2 and 4 on my wish list but maybe not 3. Additionally I'd prefer to have dedicated arrow keys and I wasn't sure if I'd rather have cherry mx brown or Topre.

So I changed wishlist item 2 to "A HHKB style compact layout with fn layer" And started my search again.

Before long I found the Leopold FC 660C. It has a layout not too unlike the HHKB but with dedicated arrow keys and Del/Ins. You have your choice of Cherry switches in brown or blue and even Topre. At $104 - $220 it's also less than the HHKB.

This is the keyboard matt3o has reviewed (quite well) in this thread. (with the Topre switches and laserd caps).


Here is where it gets interesting (and excuse me if this has already been covered elsewhere in the forum). The FC 660C is now also avaliable with Topre switches AND dark gray caps which are Dye Sub PBT instead of the lasered ones matt3o got. Elite Keyboards lists this as the '66key Electrostatic Capacitive "Mini" Keyboard (Gray/Black)' Model: FC660C/EG

Despite what other posts in this thread say the Elite Keyboards description page clearly lists the spacebar as ABS and not PBT.

http://www.elitekeyboards.com/products. ... d=fc660ceg

I ordered this board earlier today and should recieve it some time next week.

The only differences between this and the reviewed unit are:

• This model has gray caps
  
  Caps are Dye Sub
  
  Price is a little higher

Does anyone have experiance with this version? If so what are your feelings?

If there is any interest I'd be more than happy to take photos/videos or answer questions etc. I can also let you know if any of my coworkers have wished me dead (unless I am dead before I can post)

Cheers,
Boingo

[boingo]

Just shipped - should arrive Tuesday.

Also, anyone know where I could get a blank PBT cap to replace the windows key?

[Elrick]

With EK currently selling the NEW Dye-sub PBT's on their latest FC660C, because this current model is Made in China as opposed to being Made in Korea, is there anything that shows any difference in Quality?

Because we all know that certain Countries care about Quality just need to know if the Chinese made gear has finally caught up with anything from Korea/Japan standards.

For me personally REALFORCE is Japanese made and is STILL the BEST thorpie keyboard currently selling in the world at this moment in time (HHKB users don't count here due to it being nothing more than an over-sized calculator) .

[boingo]

With EK currently selling the NEW Dye-sub PBT's on their latest FC660C, because this current model is Made in China as opposed to being Made in Korea, is there anything that shows any difference in Quality?

Because we all know that certain Countries care about Quality just need to know if the Chinese made gear has finally caught up with anything from Korea/Japan standards.

For me personally REALFORCE is Japanese made and is STILL the BEST thorpie keyboard currently selling in the world at this moment in time (HHKB users don't count here due to it being nothing more than an over-sized calculator) .

When it arrives next week I can post photos of the "made in" marks and give my general impression for quality. But this will be my first Leopold KB - so all I can compare it to is the Das and CM boards I have.

[matt3o]

boingo we are definitely looking forward to your feedback on the new model.

In the meantime I replaced the 45g domes with 55g ones and now the keyboard is perfect, or at least one of the best keyboards I've had so far. Unfortunately the ABS spacebar presents shines already, but nothing we could do about it.

Apart from that the keyboard has a pretty nasty flaw imho, which is the position of the FN key. Neither possible spots are 100% optimal to me, but -as I said- so far this is the best keyboard I've had.

[Muirium]

You went for a hell of an upgrade, Boingo, looking forward to your impressions! Topre is pretty amazing, especially compared to MX browns. And as Matt says, the Leopold is an excellent model.

In the meantime I replaced the 45g domes with 55g ones and now the keyboard is perfect, or at least one of the best keyboards I've had so far.

Ah yes, what happened to your 55g donor board? And is the process worth a thread?

[Hypersphere]

boingo we are definitely looking forward to your feedback on the new model.

In the meantime I replaced the 45g domes with 55g ones and now the keyboard is perfect, or at least one of the best keyboards I've had so far. Unfortunately the ABS spacebar presents shines already, but nothing we could do about it.

Apart from that the keyboard has a pretty nasty flaw imho, which is the position of the FN key. Neither possible spots are 100% optimal to me, but -as I said- so far this is the best keyboard I've had.

The Leopold FC660C was one of the best for me with respect to sound and feel, but the layout was not quite right, and I didn't like the appearance of the keycaps. The layout and keycap problems were solved by moving to the HHKB Pro 2. However, I still prefer the sound and feel of the FC660C, which I imagine could only be improved by a 55g Topre transplant. For me, the (nearly) perfect board would be the HHKB Pro 2 with a steel plate and 55g Topre switches (even better with capacitive buckling springs!).

[Muirium]

Interesting how you like both Topre and buckling springs (as do I), when they are essentially opposites!

[matt3o]

sooner or later I'll give the HHKB another shot. honestly I find it simply overpriced but you know, if that's the price for the perfect keyboard...

[Hypersphere]

Interesting how you like both Topre and buckling springs (as do I), when they are essentially opposites!

Yes, it does seem odd in a way. However, it is not just a fondness for Topre and buckling springs per se; it is an attraction to the overall quality of some specific products that have used these switch technologies.

Thus, out of a rather extensive search and hands-on testing, two excellent products emerged: the HHKB Pro 2 and the IBM SSK. Each represents a triumph of design in its own right, and I favor them for different reasons. The HHKB gets the prize for its elegant combination of a 60% form factor, intuitive and efficient layout, and beautiful dye-sub keycaps. The IBM SSK is also beautiful, although I would prefer a 60% over a TKL; IBM gets the nod mainly for its sturdy construction and the precise feedback afforded by its buckling spring switches.

More recently, I have added the IBM XT to the short list of top contenders, based mostly on the sound and feel of its capacitive buckling spring switches, which provide even greater precision than the membrane buckling springs in the Model M and SSK.

I find it intriguing that another enthusiast (phototristan) whose reviews I have been following on YouTube has also selected the HHKB Pro 2 and IBM SSK as his all-time favorite keyboards. I suspect his reasons were similar to mine -- although Topre and buckling spring switches are markedly different, the two boards using these disparate technologies are each wonderfully designed.

[Hypersphere]

sooner or later I'll give the HHKB another shot. honestly I find it simply overpriced but you know, if that's the price for the perfect keyboard...

If it were the perfect keyboard, then the current price would not be too much. However, the HHKB Pro 2 is not quite the perfect keyboard. Indeed, despite its attractive design, it feels a bit cheap. For my money, the (nearly) perfect keyboard would be the HHKB Pro 2 with a steel plate and capacitive buckling springs.

[boingo]

boingo we are definitely looking forward to your feedback on the new model.

In the meantime I replaced the 45g domes with 55g ones and now the keyboard is perfect, or at least one of the best keyboards I've had so far. Unfortunately the ABS spacebar presents shines already, but nothing we could do about it.

Apart from that the keyboard has a pretty nasty flaw imho, which is the position of the FN key. Neither possible spots are 100% optimal to me, but -as I said- so far this is the best keyboard I've had.

matt30 - is the weight of a switch the result of the spring, dome or some combination. For example, did moving from 45 to 55 require you to just swap springs or domes too?

I think there will be a couple things that will bother me. I never (no really, never) use the caps lock so I like to set it to CTRL AND keep the CTRL as CTRL but it seems there is just one switch so it's swap or not. Guess I'll have to do the rest via software.

This is the first KB I'll have that uses the layers like this so I'm curious to see if the FN key location works well for me.

I'm also not a fan of the windows 8 logo - ideally I'd replace that key with a blank or OS agnostic PBT but I haven't yet been able to find a cap that will replace it (blank or otherwise).

Cheers,
Boingo

[boingo]

You went for a hell of an upgrade, Boingo, looking forward to your impressions! Topre is pretty amazing, especially compared to MX browns. And as Matt says, the Leopold is an excellent model.

In the meantime I replaced the 45g domes with 55g ones and now the keyboard is perfect, or at least one of the best keyboards I've had so far.

Ah yes, what happened to your 55g donor board? And is the process worth a thread?

Thanks Muirium! I do have to say I'm starting to wonder how easy it will be to go back and forth between the 660C at work and my Das at home... hmm

[Muirium]

Topres (including Leopold, HHKB and the soon to launch CM NovaTouch) get all their feeling, and their weight from the domes. The springs are just there for the sensors to work.

These boards aren't compatible with "standard" MX caps. So replacements are few and far between. But the NovaTouch is a different story.

And I wouldn't worry about becoming too much of a snob. Even if the Leopold really floats your boat, no single keyboard has everything. I like mixing things up by using buckling spring IBMs and MX boards too. Everything has its strengths, including change for change's sake!

[matt3o]

matt30 - is the weight of a switch the result of the spring, dome or some combination. For example, did moving from 45 to 55 require you to just swap springs or domes too?

just the domes. the spring is 5g for both.

I think there will be a couple things that will bother me. I never (no really, never) use the caps lock so I like to set it to CTRL AND keep the CTRL as CTRL but it seems there is just one switch so it's swap or not. Guess I'll have to do the rest via software.

unfortunately that's not possible. but I'm working on a custom controller if you are interested. I'm so low in cash right now that it is taking some time (I have to spend 170 in an analyzer, jeez this hobby is expensive).

This is the first KB I'll have that uses the layers like this so I'm curious to see if the FN key location works well for me.

it feels totally natural to me. again the only problem imho is the FN position, but if I can build this darn custom controller...

I'm also not a fan of the windows 8 logo - ideally I'd replace that key with a blank or OS agnostic PBT but I haven't yet been able to find a cap that will replace it (blank or otherwise).

Unfortunately 1.25u Topre modifiers are not so easy to source...

[Hypersphere]

<snip>
<snip>
And I wouldn't worry about becoming too much of a snob.
<snip>

For us elitists, one can never be snobbish enough.

[boingo]

Hello All,

Although my keyboard will be arriving Tuesday evening I need to fly to Utah Tuesday morning (my grandfather died yesterday) and I'll be there until at least the 14th. So my posts about the 600C will have to wait a little bit.

Cheers,
Boingo

[matt3o]

ohmy, I'm so sorry for your loss.

who cares about the 660! take care of yourself and family. we will be still here when you are ready.

[Stabilized]

sooner or later I'll give the HHKB another shot. honestly I find it simply overpriced but you know, if that's the price for the perfect keyboard...

If it were the perfect keyboard, then the current price would not be too much. However, the HHKB Pro 2 is not quite the perfect keyboard. Indeed, despite its attractive design, it feels a bit cheap. For my money, the (nearly) perfect keyboard would be the HHKB Pro 2 with a steel plate and capacitive buckling springs.

Would that be a rubber dome over buckling spring?

I totally agree with you after getting a HHKB after owning a Realforce 55g for a little while. I fortunately got my second hand and that made it a little more stomach-able, but I do think it is surrounded with a bit too much hype from the KB forums.

[webwit]

Steel plate makes mobile keyboard heavy...

[Muirium]

Yup. Weight and strength are a balancing act. I think the HHKB has it just about right. Very pleasing to type on, and neatly portable too. It's no Kishsaver!

[Stabilized]

I can understand that, but boards like the Poker II and the Pure Pro have managed to get that just right in my opinion. I mean this is all subjective, I get that, but my main point is the fact that the construction of the HHKB doesn't really seem to match up with the price, considering it can be over the amount of a Realforce (currently is on EliteKeyboards).

[matt3o]

there's no price to the keyboard you like

[Muirium]

Depends what you value, I suppose. My SSK here is worth more than full size Model Ms because IBM priced them equally, back in the day, and most people saw better value in the big guys, which made SSKs quite rare. Then along came we keyboard snobs!

The HHKB is more than a light and little RealForce. Its legends are nicer, its layout is genius, and… um… it even has a hub! If Topre did a 60%, I'd likely want it more than their TKLs and full size boards too. The HHKB, however, is the 60% done right. It's in a league of its own with that layout.

[Hypersphere]

Depends what you value, I suppose. My SSK here is worth more than full size Model Ms because IBM priced them equally, back in the day, and most people saw better value in the big guys, which made SSKs quite rare. Then along came we keyboard snobs!

The HHKB is more than a light and little RealForce. Its legends are nicer, its layout is genius, and… um… it even has a hub! If Topre did a 60%, I'd likely want it more than their TKLs and full size boards too. The HHKB, however, is the 60% done right. It's in a league of its own with that layout.

Well said. A good explanation of why the HHKB is so highly valued.

[Latin00032]

Matt3o,

Are you trying to mod the controller of the fc660c similar to the hhkb controller mod using the teensy?

How comparable would it be to mod the fc660c like the hhkb mod?

[matt3o]

yes it would be feasible but at the moment I have too many projects on my plate