Suggestions for 60% or sub-TKL board

[boingo]

Hello All,

I have three places I type

• 1 - work : I've ordered a Leopold 660C and it will arrive soon
  
  2 - home mac: (my primary machine) Das Keyboard 3 Mac Pro
  
  3 - home PC-KVM: (use for telework and a few other things) This has been a CM Storm QuickFire Rapid (TKL) until recently. A sugary drink has rendered U I J and K keys irreparably sticky.

So I'm looking for a replacement for #3, do you have any suggestions on a keyboard which is:

• Sub-TKL in size
  If cherry switches are blue or green (keyboard will be used for typing and not for gaming)
  Is not LED backlit

Clean and simple is my style.

I've had by eyes on the Poker 2 (despite the cheesy "enjoy the feeling" space bar) or the Leopold 660M (blue switches) - and there is an advantage to having the exact same layout as my board at work but I'm happy to look at anything else that meets the above.

Any recommendations? Opinions on the two I've been looking at?

Cheers,
Boingo

[Muirium]

If you get both flavours of the Leopold, and if Topre switches do indeed suit you, you'll learn to hate MX much quicker when both boards are so similar in every other way! I've heard from a few people who got both, and became Topre snobs because of that…

I think you should get something completely different. If you could relax the size rule, some very interesting old boards show up like the legendary IBM Model M and the Alps powered Apple Extended Keyboard. I love both of those, myself, and prefer them over all MX that I've encountered.

The Model M does come in a TKL version. IBM called it the SSK. It's not quite as small as modern TKLs, though, and actually quite expensive thanks to demand!



But behold how it sounds!

[boingo]

Thanks Muirium!

Do you really think I'll like my 660c that much? Will it ruin the Das for me?! I'm I on a slippery slope to refusing to type on anything besides HHKs and SSKs?

Cheers,
Boingo

[matt3o]

the mini v60 is just coming out. if I had to get a 60% now, I'd take that. I believe it's backlid, but you know... just turn it off

btw, if you can wait for the 660c I'd wait to see how you like the layout. As you said, having the same layout on multiple stations definitely helps.

[boingo]

the mini v60 is just coming out. if I had to get a 60% now, I'd take that. I believe it's backlid, but you know... just turn it off

btw, if you can wait for the 660c I'd wait to see how you like the layout. As you said, having the same layout on multiple stations definitely helps.

Thanks Matt3o,

What is the mini v60? Link?

Cheers,
Boingo

[Muirium]

Good question. I don't know either.

Do you really think I'll like my 660c that much? Will it ruin the Das for me?! I'm I on a slippery slope to refusing to type on anything besides HHKs and SSKs?

Hmm. As always with subjective things, it depends.

MX isn't bad, so much as it is different to Topre. Or buckling spring, or anything else. They all have their strengths and flaws. The more of them you try, the sharper your sense will get of what you really like, and don't.

But! That little pair of Leopolds is most unusual. As far as I know, they are unique in being so similar, yet so different. Usually, switch types are different worlds, never to meet. You get some boards trying to be clones of others (like Cherry's 122 key clones of IBM's buckling spring terminal keyboards) but they're only vaguely similar really. You'll always know the difference, and fast. But the two different kinds of FC660 are very similar indeed. They look as close to twins as wholly different technologies of keyboards can get:



That picture is from Matteo's own quick double preview. A longer investigation lies in RJ's thread where he did the same, and made his judgement. Spoiler: it's not good news for the 660M!

There's a couple more things to keep in mind about MX, however. Both very important. First is the fact there's a whole family of MX switches. Only Alps ever matched it. Topre switches come in a handful of weights, and either damped or undamped. All of them, however, share the same underlying feel. MX goes much broader, with three different mechanisms as well as weight variations. Linear, tactile and clicky MX switches are all more distinct than any Topre is from an other; so reds and greens for instance feel dramatically different. (And I actually like them both.)

And lastly, don't forget the caps. Oh the caps! Nothing in the keyboarding world beats MX's monopoly on fine, new caps. In fact it's hard to even find a single GB for anything else. That alone is why the NovaTouch is so intriguing. Topre feel with MX caps… that's the promise, at any rate.

[matt3o]

What is the mini v60? Link?

https://www.facebook.com/KBParadise/photos_stream

[Yslen]

Not that this should stop you picking up an awesome 60% board, but four sticky switches is a 20 minute repair job for your CM. They probably just need a quick clean.

[Hypersphere]

You mentioned using a KVM. My own setup has three computers sharing a keyboard and mouse using both hardware and software KMs. My primary computer is a Mac, and the secondaries are running Linux and Windows. I have tried quite a few keyboards, including the Leopold FC660C, CM QFR w/ greens, and Poker II. Until recently, my favorites were the HHKB Pro 2 (primarily for form factor, layout, dye-sub PBT keycaps, and appearance) and the IBM SSK (primarily for the feel of the buckling spring switches, dye-sub PBT keycaps, and overall good looks). At the moment, I am using an IBM XT with a Hagstrom converter; I love the capacitive buckling spring switches. However, the HHKB Pro 2 layout is so good that I reconfigure my other keyboards using software and keycap switching to something as close as I can get to the HHKB layout. The point is, after trying many very different keyboards, some constants have emerged regarding the things I like: 60% form factor, HHKB layout, dye-sub PBT keycaps in a two-tone pattern, and capacitive buckling spring switches. At present, I can't get all these attributes in a single keyboard, and so I have compromised by doing things like emulating the HHKB layout on my IBM SSK or IBM XT. Then, from time to time, I change to a different keyboard for the sake of variety and neuronal plasticity.

[Muirium]

At present, I can't get all these attributes in a single keyboard

Mwa hah ha!!



Note to self: take pretty pictures of my own Kishsaver for bragging purposes instead of always using Rindor's.

[Hypersphere]

I am amazed every time I see a Kishsaver. I would really like to acquire one someday. Muirium -- I've forgotten, do you have yours working with your Mac?

[Muirium]

Soon. I'm testing Xwhatsit's brand new Model F controller, now on the way from New Zealand up to Scotland. Ought to be good!

[Hypersphere]

Soon. I'm testing Xwhatsit's brand new Model F controller, now on the way from New Zealand up to Scotland. Ought to be good!

Thanks for the update. Looking forward to further news about this after you get the new controller.

[boingo]

Hello All,

I'm finally back in town after a short-notice trip to Utah for a funeral. Firstly I've received the 660C and I'll post about that to the other thread after I have time to form my opinions and take some photos. Secondly I have an update on my search for a 60% or sub-TKL board:

Soda had killed my CM Storm QuickFire Rapid (mx blue). I'd followed tutorials online for cleaning. Warm water an a little dish soap for the keycaps (worked well) and rubbing alcohol, contact cleaner and a mountain of q-tips for the switches but it could at best get they keys working okayish for a few days only to magically return to their sticky state.

In all I cleaned the board 5 times before giving up and making this thread. Once I decided I was going to replace it I though I might as well take it apart and run it thru the dishwasher (something which I had read several places is a bad idea for this kind of keyboard). It was garbage anyway so why not give it a shot. I let it dry for over a week while I was gone and when I got back I re-assembled it. I must be crazy lucking because not only does the thing still work, but all the keys are back to normal (going on day two). Even the 'click' is fully restored which previously had never sounded quite right after cleaning and stopped entirely as the 'stickiness' came back.

So, assuming that the keyboard keeps working and that I can manage to not spill on it again I may only need to address the part of the keyboard I dislike - silly looking legends on the caps. The strange font has slowly pissed me off more and more. The Q is square and worse the A is shaped like a triangle with the right half of the bottom missing. This affects not only the A key but also CAPS LOCK, TAB, PAGE UP, PAGE DOWN, PAUSE, and both ALT keys.

The second image on the amazon page has a pretty good shot of the legends if you're wondering what I'm talking about:
http://www.amazon.com/Storm-QuickFire-R ... ref=sr_1_2

Buying new caps for my board may make it a good fit but I may be in over my head as I'm still pretty new to all this and have a lot of questions RE keycaps:

• The current caps have a small clear plastic window to allow light thru under CAPS LOCK, Scr Lk and F9 (win key lockout). Will I be able to find replacements that will allow the light thru?
  
  The FN layer is on F5 thru F12. I'm a touch typist so I could easily use blank keys for rows 1 and down, but I don't have the F keys or FN layer memorized. Are caps made that list both the FNumber + Media key? (I'm assuming these would need to be made specifically for the CM Storm QF)
  
  How do I know which caps will work with my board - mounts, stabilizers and size/shape?
  
  Why do almost all PBT sets come with ABS space bars? Is there some challenge to making the space bar from PBT or is it purely a cost thing?
  
  Where is a good/reputable place to buy?

So, any suggestions on keycaps?

Also, I still have my eyes on both another 660 or something like the Poker 2. I'm starting to think I'm going to end up with more keyboards than I really need. (I have the same problem with camera bags... I just can't ever find the perfect one).

Cheers,
Boingo

[boingo]

Not that this should stop you picking up an awesome 60% board, but four sticky switches is a 20 minute repair job for your CM. They probably just need a quick clean.

It appears (fingers crossed) that you are right!

[boingo]

Hello All,

Three quick updates

1 - the QFR is still working

2 - I've ordered a set of SP DSA Dolch 110 base, ten key kit and LED kit. (Yes, my KB is TKL but I got the ten key kit so I have the option of moving it to my Das if I ever want to)

3 - I've ordered the Poker II PBT with blue switches from qtan ( http://www.vendio.com/stores/E-sports-G ... d=35050923 ) and now I just need to find a replacement PBT Space Bar so I can ditch the "Enjoy Your Feeling Poker II" legend. So I guess my next step is to figure out how many "units" wide I need and the profile.

Cheers,
Boingo

[DanielT]

For the Poker the space bar is 6.25u, the profile is OEM, so DCS should be OK. As for finding that in PBT, good luck

[boingo]

For the Poker the space bar is 6.25u, the profile is OEM, so DCS should be OK. As for finding that in PBT, good luck

Thanks DanielT,

Yeah, SP has PBT space bars in DSA profile but not DCS. Guess I'll just have to get an ABS one then keep my eyes peeled for one in PBT (I'm less of a PBT snob and more interested in all my keys having the same feel).

Cheers,
Boingo

[Yslen]

For the Poker the space bar is 6.25u, the profile is OEM, so DCS should be OK. As for finding that in PBT, good luck

Thanks DanielT,

Yeah, SP has PBT space bars in DSA profile but not DCS. Guess I'll just have to get an ABS one then keep my eyes peeled for one in PBT (I'm less of a PBT snob and more interested in all my keys having the same feel).

Cheers,
Boingo

I sanded the text off my space bar



It now has a "brushed PBT" look to it...

[Muirium]

Boy, is Round 5 taking its sweet time.

[boingo]

For the Poker the space bar is 6.25u, the profile is OEM, so DCS should be OK. As for finding that in PBT, good luck

Thanks DanielT,

Yeah, SP has PBT space bars in DSA profile but not DCS. Guess I'll just have to get an ABS one then keep my eyes peeled for one in PBT (I'm less of a PBT snob and more interested in all my keys having the same feel).

Cheers,
Boingo

I sanded the text off my space bar



It now has a "brushed PBT" look to it...

Haha, nice!

I'll try the same thing. They're laser engraved right? How deep is the engraving?

I also realized that since I got the DSA Dolch set for my QFR I could move what was the space bar from the QFR to the Poker II assuming that it is also 6.25U.

Cheers,
Boingo

[boingo]

Boy, is Round 5 taking its sweet time.

Round 5?

[Muirium]

Long, long, (so very long) story. Basically a group buy for caps that look like this:



But in colours to match this:



We're still waiting. But they'll be sooo goooood…

Anyway, 6.25u space bars are your friend. You're right, all the space bars you're talking about are that standard size. They aren't all necessarily the same profile, though. DSA Dolch will look flat compared to other keys, like the Poker's stock caps.

[matt3o]

there you go. I was almost afraid this post hadn't a Muirium's round4 picture!

[Muirium]

DT's Godwin's Law… at least until everyone has Round 5!

[boingo]

My DSA Dolch set has arrived from SA. I'm honestly shocked how much better the QuickFire Rapid looks with these caps. Shocked!


It's like a new keyboard.

Cheers,
Boingo

[boingo]

For the Poker the space bar is 6.25u, the profile is OEM, so DCS should be OK. As for finding that in PBT, good luck

Thanks DanielT,

Yeah, SP has PBT space bars in DSA profile but not DCS. Guess I'll just have to get an ABS one then keep my eyes peeled for one in PBT (I'm less of a PBT snob and more interested in all my keys having the same feel).

Cheers,
Boingo

SP says they can make 6.25u PBT space bars, how many ppl are looking for them? Would a GB be a possibility?

Cheers,
Boingo