The Realforce 104 Euro Tour - Round 3

[Madhias]

Nice, isn't it?

I much prefer the ANSI Return key, especially. I was born and raised in ISO-land, but ANSI is where I'm native!

There's only one 55g switch on the whole Realforce you have right there. See if you can find it…

ESC without looking?
[EDIT] I SWEAR i have not cheated, looked right now, it is the ESC key.

I have mz... my problems with the Return key right now, it seems to be too small. But that's maybe just a matter of time.

[002]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the board so far
I really like your photos; especially the ones on the desktop thread. It's like the white Realforce was made for that Fujitsu monitor.

[BlueBär]

There's another 55g on there, although on a barely used key. Try finding it!

Did anyone else think the Esc key was scratchy? Cause it definitely is on that board.

[noobie94]

Well I don´t have a lot to review about the Realforce but thanks 002 for the chance to test it. (I just don´t know enough about keyboards)

One thing that I can say is that I am not an ANSI guy. I prefer the big enter enter a lot, on the ANSI I somehome made # most of the time when I pressed enter.

The general feeling was pretty good. I noticed I could type pretty fast without many erros. On my ducky I sometimes hit the space accidently. Did not happen on the Realfoce. At the beginning the space was kind of loud compared to other buttons.

Would I buy a topre board? Maybe the Novatouch but I am pretty happy with my Ducky MX Brown.

[BlueBär]

On my ducky I sometimes hit the space accidently. Did not happen on the Realfoce.

You need a heavier spring then, I generally mistype less on heavier switches.

[Madhias]

There's another 55g on there, although on a barely used key. Try finding it!

Did anyone else think the Esc key was scratchy? Cause it definitely is on that board.

Is it the Num Lock key? I think so! Regarding the ESC key: for me right now it seems to be a very clean feeling, but it's just the second day.

In my opinion the Space bar is strange compared to the rest of the keys. A little bit too loud (sounds like 'CLOCK type type type type CLOCK'). Maybe also 55g on the Space bar would be nice?

[BlueBär]

Numlock is correct! Hit the Esc slightly off-center, and push it down slowly. The scratching is also audible so try going close with your ear.

Spacebars always sound different - can't really avoid that.

[Madhias]

So kile wants to pass the Tour, and i'm gonna send the board tomorrow or on Saturday to nourathar to the Netherlands.

[kile]

So kile wants to pass the Tour

Yes, I was forced to bail out of the tour because of things which were not in my control. Shipping to me at the moment would be problematic, and I also have problems with carpal tunnel syndrome which would mean I could not try the keyboard properly.

Sorry for the inconvenience I may have caused.

[Madhias]

For me it's absolutely no problem, and the shipping should be the same to the Netherlands or not a great difference.

[Muirium]

Stabilised keys are always louder than the rest. As I remember, this particular Realforce could probably use some lube or appropriate TLC on the space bar stabs, because it was quite jarring when I had it too.

Actually, screw memory. Let's check the audio recordings I made at the time. (Yes, I have a fancy microphone and like to use it…)

• 002's touring Realforce
  https://www.dropbox.com/s/c9rskazvmk2ie ... lforce.m4a
• HHKB
  https://www.dropbox.com/s/ddsmshyc74ozsvz/HHKB.m4a

Pretty big difference in sound between those two. The HHKB has a plastic plate, rather than the Realforce's metal, of course. But I think this one was in better condition too. It was a lightly used one I had a brief loan of.

• Here's how quiet Cherry stabs are in comparison:
  https://www.dropbox.com/s/zssvj2dtt1pw8 ... Red%29.m4a
  I just love those! All you hear is the keys.
• And at the other end of the spectrum, here is my Kishsaver with a loose space bar stab, which I'm about to fix:
  https://www.dropbox.com/s/xn84dtfozxbfe ... ngtest.m4a
  I also love that board!
• Oh, and finally, here's my SSK. It has wire stabilisers too (not Cherry style) but is nice and tight.
  https://www.dropbox.com/s/zsinfw3l577bqai/SSK.m4a

The Realforce should sound more like that when new, I think.

[002]

Nice recordings
It seems that you had a much better flow on the HHKB compared to the Realforce -- just an "on fire" day on the HHKB or a layout thing?

Once again the space bar on the Realforce reinforces its Achilles heel reputation (ABS and obnoxiously loud). Personally the sound doesn't bother me too much *if it's me typing*. It wasn't until my friend in the office got one that I got annoyed by it.

[Muirium]

Isolated recordings (taken months apart) don't tell you much, but I definitely did feel right at home on the HHKB. It helps that I made my own training wheels disguised as a custom keyboard I suppose!

The Kishsaver's now one of my quickest boards, but I need to take a new recording now that I'm used to it. The lack of homing bumps put me off at the start.

[Hypersphere]

@Muirium: Thanks for the recordings! The spacebar sound on the RF is quite noticeable. Your SSK does indeed sound smooth.

[Muirium]

Next up: this here NMB space invader keyboard. Its space bar is good and quiet… and PBT!

Instead, right Shift is the key with dodgy stabilisation this time. Swings and roundabouts.

[Hypersphere]

Speaking of spacebars, the l o n g spacebar on my XT gives a pronounced thunk, but there is no rattle at all.

[Muirium]

Sounds familiar! Like this?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/g82nl495wfh81 ... C%3AXT.m4a

[Hypersphere]

Sounds familiar! Like this?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/g82nl495wfh81 ... C%3AXT.m4a

Yes, somewhat. However, mine sounds like a second tenor, whereas yours sound like a baritone. Nevertheless, both have the distinctive metallic click for the regular keys and a deeper thunk for the spacebar with no discernible stabilizer rattle. The lack of spacebar rattle is another major plus for the XT as far as I am concerned.

[Muirium]

Freshly recorded (now it's quiet at last) my main three keyboards of late: these are the fast ones!

• NMB RT-102 with clicky space invaders:
  https://www.dropbox.com/s/5m02stva20amf ... RT-102.m4a
  I'll do a review of this keyboard once I shoot some good pictures. It's a pleasant surprise.
• IBM Model F Kishsaver: now that I'm used to it:
  https://www.dropbox.com/s/7cqyay2hgf3a0 ... ice%29.m4a
  Consistently hitting the space bar on the right (where its stabiliser is still intact) definitely helps, as does actually getting text out of the keyboard!
• Prototype NovaTouch:
  https://www.dropbox.com/s/322vbhb2gdg94bq/NovaTouch.m4a
  This isn't the final version! But note the space bar's lack of Costar style stab scratching. Interesting to compare with the Realforce.

Coincidentally, all these daily boards have PBT caps. The NovaTouch is in white blanks, while the other two are classic dye subs.

The Kishsaver awaits a fitting with the spare space bar stab that Game Theory sent me. (Thanks man!) The Novatouch awaits Cookie's cunning "Type-S" style dampers. And the NMB is just fine as it is. Well, besides being a full size keyboard. I keep reaching for the numpad when I'm going for my mouse, no matter which side I have it on!

[Hypersphere]

@Muirium: Exactly which model of NMB do you have? And what type of space invader / angry bear switch? As you know, there are many models of NMB, not all of them with space invader switches. What color are the switches, and how many "eyes"?

[Madhias]

Great sound-recordings, Muirium! I downloaded all, made a new folder called 'keyboard sounds', took my big earphones, and am listening to the sound comparisons. It's hard to describe in English what I hear, and to translate the sound into words...

• • The Kishsaver is really bad-ass. Damn that sound!
  • The NMB sounds great! Very 'compact', a deep click, must be nice to type on.
  • I don't really know what to think of the NovaTouch - the HHKB and the Realforce sound way better for me. If one can compare these three!
  • The SSK is the only one i know and have for myself of these sound files.

Important for me is that i found out you can't rely just on the sound of a switch / keyboard / stab type, but really have to feel it for yourself. My great surprise was the SSK: i listened and watched a lot of videos, but when i got it the feeling and sound was different (much better) what i expected.

[Muirium]

Thanks! With a good mic (Samson Meteor) and a quiet environment (summer night owl) these recordings are a piece of cake. The main task is getting the keyboards!

The NovaTouch's sound is one of the things CM acted on to improve. They've got a really nice board there in most respects, but thock is thock! I'm pleased they agree and went back to improve it.

The Kishsaver really is a mad little beast. Model Fs all have that intensity — my first mechanical is my XT which I also love for sound — but there's something magic about having it so compact, in a full metal jacket. It's a weapon!

The SSK is nice and tight, and easily one of my favourites too. I hope its sound is much like yours, as calibration to give a sense of the others. I recorded all of these on the same desk and mic and settings, so they should be accurate for comparison. The volumes are differed because the keyboards are!

The NMB (black two eyed space invaders in a standard winkeyless ISO layout, photo thread coming soon) is a strong keyboard, or it wouldnt get a look in against the Kishsaver. I'm still trying to figure out why I like typing on it as much. But I do.

[Madhias]

Back on topic: i haven't got the address of the next person waiting in the line, the keyboard should go to the Netherlands. I could send it on Monday morning, but then i'm from Monday noon until Thursday evening on a business trip to Germany, so the earliest shipping option from Austria would be then Friday 11th of June! I hope that is not too late.

[SmokinWaffle]

Is it too late to join the tour? UK here.

Been wanting to try Topre for a very long time, but can't justify spending £170+ on a keyboard just to try!+

[maxmalkav]

I tried to contact the user located in Amsterdam regarding I'm also living there and I would like to try the board , but I did not get a reply. Count with me if you still need someone in the Netherlands

[002]

Have added SmokinWaffle and maxmalkav.

[Medowy]

Yay for more people!

[Muirium]

Maxmalkav is sending me a Minitouch keyboard soon, so I've asked Waffle where in the UK (s)he is, in case we can save some international shipping.

[maxmalkav]

I would also like to contact nourathar, I could pick up the keyboard directly from him in Amsterdam and share the expenses of shipping to the next person.

[Muirium]

PM him. Much better to coordinate things well than do needless shipments.