Group Build prototyping phase

[matt3o]

ok, a little status update.

I've finally found an affordable CNC. I'm waiting for the USB module to be available, they say 15 days max.

I'm also still waiting for the shipping quotes from qwertim. It seems we can have the plates cut and sent directly to a logistic service and finally to you. That would be great because we would avoid the shipping to me from UK fees.

So a question for the floor here.

In a keyboard, the types of elevation and angle preferred are very subjective and vary person to person. When designing a case, do you think it is better to design the case with a specific angle in mind. As in mount the plate or design it on a slope of sorts.

Or build it completely flat, and create all the elevation and angle with keyboard feet?

I don't mean what is the most common solution, but if your goal was to put an angle into your case, would mounting the plate at an angle in the case, actually provide any significant benefit or inconvenience compared to making an elevation with feet.

Haven't really given this much thought, so I could probably solve this myself, but figured I would ask.

well, I believe that an angled plate would be ideal, but very hard to design (considering the cost of prototypes). At the end using feet is the easiest solution and lets you comfortably change the angle at your will.

[jacobolus]

I've finally found an affordable CNC.

As in you’re buying a CNC mill, or you found someone who has one and will cut stuff for you for cheapish?

What material are you cutting, into what type of shape?

[pyrelink]

That's great to hear! I assume by USB module you jut mean USB connectivity? Out of curiosity, what are your other options for connectivity? They still using Serial ports?!

Good to hear about the shipping stuff. I assume besides the fact that it's an extra unnecessary step, Germany has their own expensive Customs?

Also yeah, I thought about it for a second and realized, in the end using feet means you can start and change how ever you want. But building a plate into a specific angle (even if prototyping was cheap) means you are forever stuck with it.

Also Jacob: Matt is talking about a CNC mill to purchase. He already has QWERKeys cutting the plates.

[matt3o]

I've finally found an affordable CNC.

As in you’re buying a CNC mill, or you found someone who has one and will cut stuff for you for cheapish?

What material are you cutting, into what type of shape?

yeah, I'm going to buy a CNC router (not actually a mill). I can cut wood, acrylic and non-ferrous metals in multiple passes. Carving a whole aluminum case would be extremely slow, but the plates are fine.

@pyrelink, CNC usually runs on LPT.

[pyrelink]

Ah right, parallel port not Serial, right. Amazed, they are still selling consumer mills with parallel. Figured everything would be pure USB by now. I think the last Parallel port peripheral I had was a freakin Zip Drive

Just looked it up too, guess it really is a common tendency to control CNC machines with Parallel. Had no clue!

[matt3o]

yeah, and parallel doesn't work on 64-bit OS (for some reason).

[vvp]

Parallel port works ok on 64 bit Linux.
But it really looks like Windows7 64 bit does not come with parallel port drivers preinstalled. One needs to download and install them separately.

[matt3o]

good to know. thanks!

[bearcat]

matt3o, what kind of mill did you find? do you know the specs re: the spindle?

After breaking some bits two weekends back, i made some upgrades this past weekend and am excited to do some more tests tonight...

Also, for other folks who are US based, www.online-metals.com seems to be a pretty cost-effective supplier of stock.

[matt3o]

sorry bearcat, didn't see your message.

It's a CNC from a local builder/seller. It's very small (30x40 working area) but very solid. It comes with a half decent spindle but I need to upgrade when possible. I believe it's a 800w motor 3000/20000 rpm.

The USB module is finally available! It's coming true! Low cost PCBs for everyone

[jacobolus]

Also, for other folks who are US based, http://www.online-metals.com seems to be a pretty cost-effective supplier of stock.

This seems to be a parked empty page. Did you mean some other domain?

[pyrelink]

That sounds really nice! Do you happen to have any future upgrading capabilities btw? I know you can change the actual drill and router bits, but what about your total surface area? Is that basically a matter of an entirely new (and one of the expensive $2500 ones) machine, or is there any way to build onto it?

Also, are there any shortcut methods or techniques that you can use to cut larger pieces on a smaller machine? As in it takes twice as long maybe but you can do everything in 2 separate cuts?

In the end a locally made machine sounds far better then those Chinese machines. At least you know this one will work! And if it doesn't work... Then he is close enough that you can put a hit out on him with the local Italian mob.

[matt3o]

The easiest upgrade that I didn't take is to 4-axis add-on. It's very nice to have but not critical at the beginning.

The frame is 300x400mm, more than enough for what I need to do, but technically you could do multiple travels, so the workable area is virtually infinite (you really want to limit the number of travels though).

As per size upgrade, all the electronics, motors and controllers are the same, so it wouldn't be a completely new machine but I believe that if I reach the point of needing a bigger machine I would buy a semi-pro one at that point.

Now a week or so to have the CNC ready, I also have to buy other tools such as bits and clamps etc... luckily summer is coming and this August is officially CNC Month.

Then he is close enough that you can put a hit out on him with the local Italian mob.

LOL!

[Muirium]

Revolution!

Lucky for us, you're the only man in Italy who doesn't take the whole month off…

[matt3o]

ETA: 2014/07/15 (YES!)

[pyrelink]

Is that when you will have your CNC at your doorstep, or when its available to order? Will this group build be the first project you run through your new toy?

[matt3o]

it will be at my doorstep!

If there's interested I could set up a CNC service, technically I could run even just one sample, cost would be more or less the same for me I guess.

I don't know yet how this project will be affected. I have to make some serious testing before being 100% operative.

My main goal is to be able to do fast (and possibly cheaper) prototyping, so if I make an error in the sides or plate design I can quickly make a correction. As of now it's like: make a design > send to laser cutter > wait 2 weeks > shipping cost > correct error > send new design > repeat... very boring and expensive.

Apart from that it would be very easy to test PCB designs, one CNC'd PCB would cost in the 10 euro range instead of 80. Printing professional PCBs in less than 5-10 qty is pretty expensive.

Also wooden cases won't be a problem, I have to check on aluminum cases. Alu plates shouldn't be a problem, but no steel. Pretty excited about all the new possibilities and I should get the CNC just in time for my b-day

[pyrelink]

Awesome to hear! A small CNC service would be incredibly useful. By "this group build" I was referring to making those keyboard feet on it. Being able to skip the manufacturer communication, and shipping, and all that is a huge advance in prototyping.

[Muirium]

You'll be able to manufacture PCBs, you say? I may just have a little project for you Matteo!

[pyrelink]

You'll be able to manufacture PCBs, you say? I may just have a little project for you Matteo!

Hehe thats what I was thinking in the back of my mind.

[matt3o]

yes, CNC'd PCB is an option. This is the end result more or less



They can also be double sided. You can add a green coat to give them a better look (and protection).

[pyrelink]

How large can we make the PCB? Is it really only constrained by the surface area of your CNC? How large was your CNC again?

[matt3o]

maximum area is 400x300mm but you can do them in multiple setups. there's a limit on track distance though (not track size that can be very small), I don't remember how much is that, I have to check when I get the CNC (I would keep them at 1mm just to be safe).

[pyrelink]

Well damn, thats pretty impressive. 10 euro PCBs, would be incredibly awesome!

[Muirium]

You've got PM! The little 56 key wireless project is looking for just such a PCB maker…

400 mm is very impressive, by the way. That's big enough for a TKL!

[pasph]

Put me on the waiting list

[Muirium]

Which one? There's so many projects in this thread now!

[matt3o]

oh and if the cnc works well as we all wish... I'm gonna take an anodization kit as well

[Muirium]

Can you have metal anodised and still leave it shiny? Just asking…

[matt3o]

you can silver-anodize that keeps the metal quite shiny but usually aluminum is rather matte. to make it shiny (chrome-like) you need some serious polishing