IBM Model 6450350

[seebart]

I picked this up for one Euro,but more for curiosity. It´s interesting to see how much mice have changed over 27 jears compared to keyboards.I have been using it for the last couple of days but I can´t get used to it and quite frankly it´s not practical as a daily driver.The ergonomics are "crazy", it´s a heavy beast like I expected and the ball mechanism cannot compete with laser.It´s just too clumsy.I foud out it was manufactured by ALPS in 1987.It looks great next to my SSK though!

http://www.tcocd.de/Pictures/Peripheral ... 0350.shtml

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IMGP7084.JPG (987.6 KiB) Viewed 15923 times

[Daniel Beardsmore]

It's a lot like my [wiki]Key Tronic Professional Series Mouse[/wiki], which is also Alps-made. I have no idea what "galvanic sampling" is supposed to mean (sounds like some rubbish someone made up); it appears to use the same electromechanical rotary encoders as mine. I was really surprised when I took that apart, and it looks like I might get to add a second mouse to [wiki]Category:Electromechanical mice[/wiki]. (Pending confirmation of the type of encoders.)

[andrewjoy]

i have a slightly newer IBM mouse from i think the late PS2 line you can still buy them new from unicomp model 96F9275 made by logitech

[seebart]

I have no idea what "galvanic sampling" is supposed to mean

it´s fancy schmancy for ball mechanism is my guess.

[mr_a500]

Yeah, I've got one of them. I've also got the newer model. (NOS)

Here are some of my collection (not deliberately collected, but amassed over the years):

mouses.jpg

[seebart]

nice mice!

Ahhh that Amiga mouse brings back memories...

[andrewjoy]

second from the right is the one i have

[mr_a500]

Ahhh that Amiga mouse brings back memories...

I have memories of whipping one across the room and smashing it into a wall when it kept snagging while I was going for the Arkanoid high score.

The one to the left of it is also an Amiga mouse - the weirdo hunchback A3000-only mouse. I also have an A1000 mouse with the bent connector and a rounded A4000 mouse. I don't really like any of them though. I've always preferred trackballs.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

it´s fancy schmancy for ball mechanism is my guess.

Most ball mice use optomechanical rotary encoders:

[wiki]Opto-mechanical sensor[/wiki]

The sensors in my Key Tronic mouse are electromechanical, and it appears that IBM's mouse uses the same Alps electromechanical rotary encoders (the parts appear to be identical).

"galvanic" refers to something that involves electric current, apparently, so it seems to be a very unusual way to describe the electromechanical rotary encoders.

Here are some of my collection (not deliberately collected, but amassed over the years): …

I went backwards:

1. Watford Electronics Quest mouse for the BBC Micro user port: three buttons
2. Packard Bell PS/2 mouse (Logitech IIRC): two buttons
3. Apple Desktop Bus Mouse: one button

Of course, now I have five-button mice and wish that Intel and Microsoft would standardise on a 7+ button mouse extension so that I could get a 7-button mouse without needing stupid third-party drivers.

[mr_a500]

Of course, now I have five-button mice and wish that Intel and Microsoft would standardise on a 7+ button mouse extension so that I could get a 7-button mouse without needing stupid third-party drivers.

You have 7 fingers to press all those buttons? Lucky you.



Apple was pretty dumb insisting on a one-button mouse all those years, but I think a 7 button mouse is a bit overkill.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Left: select
Right: menu, and pan in IrfanView (for some reason Irfan insists on right-drag instead of middle-drag)
Middle: all the stuff most people have no idea you can do
4: back, and mouse gestures (since there is no need to drag with that button, but right-drag is used in Explorer, Outlook and IrfanView amongst others)
5: forward

I would also like a button bound to an application switcher. On my Mac I used one of the thumb buttons (4 or 5) for Exposé, but in Windows I've run out of buttons! I am not really comfortable with mice with buttons 4 and 5 both on the same side under my thumb, so I have button 4 on the left and 5 on the right. However, that leaves room for an extra button on the left, and maybe with practice I could put it to use.

Seven-button mice exist, but I'm loath to rely on third-party software to get that functionality, and I can't set bindings in other software since officially those buttons don't exist (as least as far as Windows is concerned, mice can only have up to five buttons).

[seebart]

I rarely use the extra two buttons on my steelseries sensei.

[davkol]

Harharhar.

X.Org recognizes about 12 mouse buttons (1-3 normal buttons, 4-7 scrolling, 8-9 history, 10+ can be mapped to keyboard keys AFAIK) and my mouse has an on-board memory for button mapping (key macros included), configurable using free software.

Just curious though, what's the use of the middle button? I'm aware of auto-scrolling, copypasta (probably not in Windows) and window-manager magic. Anything else?

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Let's say I bought a Roccat Kova+ — would buttons 6 and 7 be transmitted in a way such that X.Org would see them as 6 and 7?

Middle mouse, for me:

• Autoscroll
• Pan (e.g. Inkscape)
• Open link in new tab — not widely understood considering how many web developers create sites that needlessly block this from working
• Close tab (I still remember turning off the close buttons on all my tabs as I had no use for them)
• New program instance from taskbar (Windows 7/8)
• Close window from taskbar (Windows 7/8)

It's new tab and close window/tab that I use all day, every day. I've even set my XP PC at work to close windows by middle-clicking on taskbar buttons, on both my standard and secondary taskbars.

With Arthur/RISC OS, Acorn assigned the buttons as follows:

• Left is Select, and behaves as expected
• Middle is Menu, and opens the program's menu bar in the style of a context menu, with typically some contextuality present; no menus appear until you press Menu
• Right is Adjust, which acts as the complement to Select, e.g. it behaves as shift-click/control-click/command-click/option-click without the user needing to remember what they're supposed to hold down while clicking. Examples: toggle selection of icon or icon group, scroll in opposite direction to the arrow on scroll bar button, drag window without bringing it to the front, open parent folder window while closing child folder window. You can do most of this on a Mac but it requires holding cmd or opt at the same time, and Acorn integrated it directly into a button.

(Edit: switch to parent folder on the Mac was cmd-opt-up or something — keyboard only.)

[seebart]

I am not really comfortable with mice with buttons 4 and 5 both on the same side under my thumb

how about this then:

razer-naga-2014-right-03.png (278.5 KiB) Viewed 15724 times

[scottc]

Seebart, I find your eBay trawling very impressive. You seem to often pick up really cheap and interesting stuff. Great find!

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I was about to post the Vreenak "It's a fake" video, but I had to check to be sure and ...... that Naga is real???

It's just ..... WTF? That's insane.

[seebart]

...... that Naga is real???

oh it´s real and readily available.I actually went out and tried it at a shop a couple of months ago.Not for me!I have seen videos online of people using it,not sure if that was more promotion though.It could be productive if one can get used to it.I could not.Talk about extra buttons on a mouse!

Seebart, I find your eBay trawling very impressive. You seem to often pick up really cheap and interesting stuff. Great find!

Thank you very much scottc.Of course I have also had my share of not so great buys like many of us.Something like this I cannot pass up for one Euro.The seller claimed it was "unused".If it was used,then very little.A NIB one would be really nice.

[davkol]

Unfortunately, these mouse keypads often mess with keyboard tenkey status.

Let's say I bought a Roccat Kova+ — would buttons 6 and 7 be transmitted in a way such that X.Org would see them as 6 and 7?

I don't have a kova+ (old design, lower-quality), only lua (fewer buttons, very limited remapping), pyra (old design, somewhat limited remapping), kone (old design, bad quality, it's broken, if fact) and savu (will comment on this).

Savu (with current open-source drivers, i.e. 2.2.0) can have any button (including wheel up/down to certain extent) set to

• button 1-9 (includes primary three buttons, back/forward and 4direction scrolling) or button 1 doubleclick,
• a keyboard macro,
• Win key,
• a multimedia-player control,
• some mouse-/driver-specific stuff (switching profiles/sensitivity, launching apps/scripts or timers).

I've taken only a brief look at the source, but I suppose it should be possible to send codes for mouse button 10+. You can remap horizontal scrolling (button 6-7 IIRC) though.

…

Yeah, I forgot about tabs, because I use keyboard for that.

[Halvar]

ORIC Atmos on ebay.de:

http://www.ebay.de/itm/ORIC-Atmos-1983- ... 1638568905

Quite expensive, but look at that keyboard everyone who's in Round 5!



"Rat Splat"?

[taylordcraig]

Yes the naga is very real. My room mate had one about five years ago when I lived there.
I personally like the Hex Naga, where it has 6 hex shaped side buttons in a hex shape, and your thumb rests in the center.
I wouldn't actually use it though, 5 mouse buttons seems to be enough for me.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

The Hex Naga would go really well with my Poker II green backlit :)

Not sure I trust either Razer build quality or design or their software though.

[Nuum]

Well there's also the Logitech G600 if you are interested in a mouse with many many buttons.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I specifically want the standard to change so that the extra buttons are available to all software instead of relying on some broken software. Also, the last two Logitech mice I've had had dreadful scroll wheels. Maybe one day I'll end up trying a mouse in person and get to confirm that, for once, the manufacturer hasn't made a complete mess out of it.

Douglas Engelbart has finally got a grave to turn in in lament for the unmitigated disaster that is modern computer mice.

[Muirium]

Scrollers aren't any fault of Engelbart's, far as I know. The mouse is a pointing device. One subsequent generations glommed a bunch of other things onto, because, well "progress"…

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I'm not blaming Engelbart.

[jacobolus]

Some of those old mice had buttons with pretty nice action, IMO. Lots of modern mice have really terrible buttons.

[seebart]

Not sure I trust either Razer build quality or design or their software though.

the build quality of my deathadder is ok,it´s not a solid as my sensei but good enough.I did not like/trust their "Razer Synapse 2.0 - Cloud-based configurator and manager for Razer devices".I would not use it again,even if it means less functionality.Bloated unstable software in my opinion.

[fohat]

Some of those old mice had buttons with pretty nice action, IMO. Lots of modern mice have really terrible buttons.

It is not difficult to swap switches in mice.

I have bought several old Logitech and Microsoft ball mice that looked to be "lightly used" just for the switches.
(and those mouse balls are fun to play with as desk toys)

There are 2 big problems with mice: (1) they are sometimes hard to crack open and re-assemble properly, and (2) wheels can be insanely fussy and obstreperous to tinker with.

[ezrahilyer]

Go buy a decent resolution USB laser mouse and open it up and put the logic board inside this mouse. there should be room for it, and the hole where the ball used to be should give you a nice place for the eye to see out of.

then if the switches on your mouse are separate from the PCB then just wire them into the new mouse board.

Run the USB cable out, and there you go.

It would look original, but act like a modern laser mouse.